Windfury Weapon no longer has a 3-second internal cooldown.

[Embermoon]

Depends how they reduce stats on the flasks and CoI... Either you get 500x2 in AP or else you get 1000x1 in AP currently with the amount of AP you will get per Str/agi, so same amount before stat nerfs...

Are you assuming they'll nerf the stats on the flasks? If they leave them the same, then you're right - it'll be the same AP. Where I'm saying the CoI would be better would be the extra 500 Stam that goes along with it.

Granted, that little tidbit will pale in comparison to how much extra benefit we'll get, once they replace hit & exp on existing gear, with other secondaries.

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What about double WF with something fast like daggers?

2nd response to this question: I just checked the new weapons. For the same iLvl (666), a 1.7 speed dagger was roughly 750 weapon damage, whereas a 2.6 speed weapon was roughly 1,250 weapon damage. I'm 99% certain that we'll still want to avoid daggers like the plague.

[Kithelle]

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2nd response to this question: I just checked the new weapons. For the same iLvl (666), a 1.7 speed dagger was roughly 750 weapon damage, whereas a 2.6 speed weapon was roughly 1,250 weapon damage. I'm 99% certain that we'll still want to avoid daggers like the plague.

Ahhh

I just thought maybe perhaps with the additional Windfury procs and the added LB's from more MW maybe it could make up some gap...but either way isn't a big deal to me.

[Embermoon]

Ahhh

I just thought maybe perhaps with the additional Windfury procs and the added LB's from more MW maybe it could make up some gap...but either way isn't a big deal to me.

I just hope that the SimC devs will be able to get their hands on good data, in order to model not only WF procs, when there's no internal CD but also LL resets, assuming that the datamined perk goes live, where every FS tick has a 15% chance to reset the CD on LL. Total bugger, for logical modeling, as far as I can tell.

[Schizoide]

2nd response to this question: I just checked the new weapons. For the same iLvl (666), a 1.7 speed dagger was roughly 750 weapon damage, whereas a 2.6 speed weapon was roughly 1,250 weapon damage. I'm 99% certain that we'll still want to avoid daggers like the plague.

Don't know where you got that from. All itemlvl 666 weapons are 488.9 DPS.

http://wod.wowhead.com/items=2?filte...=666;maxle=666

Here's itemlvl 630, what looks like heroic dungeon loot. All the melee weapons are 350.2 DPS.

http://wod.wowhead.com/items=2?filte...30#items:0-6-2

WF is a flat 20% chance on attack, not a PPM, and it has no cooldown and no attack power bonus in 6.x. Looking at WF alone, daggers will be perfectly equal with maces, fist weapons, and axes. Dagger WF procs will hit for less, but you'll get more of them. Weapon speed doesn't have any impact on WF performance at all.

Of course enhance will still want slow weapons in both hands due to Stormstrike and Lava Lash, and their PPM impact on weapon enchants. Just not because of Windfury any more.

[Lavindar]

Don't know where you got that from. All itemlvl 666 weapons are 488.9 DPS.

http://wod.wowhead.com/items=2?filte...=666;maxle=666

Here's itemlvl 630, what looks like heroic dungeon loot. All the melee weapons are 350.2 DPS.

http://wod.wowhead.com/items=2?filte...30#items:0-6-2

WF is a flat 20% chance on attack, not a PPM, and it has no cooldown and no attack power bonus in 6.x. Looking at WF alone, daggers will be perfectly equal with maces, fist weapons, and axes. Dagger WF procs will hit for less, but you'll get more of them. Weapon speed doesn't have any impact on WF performance at all.

Of course enhance will still want slow weapons in both hands due to Stormstrike and Lava Lash, and their PPM impact on weapon enchants. Just not because of Windfury any more.

But is because of those skills that use weapon damage that we will avoid daggers even with WF not having cooldown, the whole point of these skills using weapon damage and not dps is exactly so we prefer slow weapons.

But, I would love to be able to use daggers effectively, I have enven the transmog I would use: Gutgore Ripper

[Embermoon]

Don't know where you got that from. All itemlvl 666 weapons are 488.9 DPS.

http://wod.wowhead.com/items=2?filte...=666;maxle=666

Here's itemlvl 630, what looks like heroic dungeon loot. All the melee weapons are 350.2 DPS.

http://wod.wowhead.com/items=2?filte...30#items:0-6-2



WF is a flat 20% chance on attack, not a PPM, and it has no cooldown and no attack power bonus in 6.x. Looking at WF alone, daggers will be perfectly equal with maces, fist weapons, and axes. Dagger WF procs will hit for less, but you'll get more of them. Weapon speed doesn't have any impact on WF performance at all.

Of course enhance will still want slow weapons in both hands due to Stormstrike and Lava Lash, and their PPM impact on weapon enchants. Just not because of Windfury any more.

I didn't say DPS; I said damage. Our specials are all based off of a weapon's damage; not it's DPS. Where I got those numbers from was the weapon list that MMO posted; probably the same one you linked. Slow 666 weapons showed a damage range of (roughly) 1,000 to 1,500 damage (let's call it 1,250 avg per hit). 1.7 daggers of the same iLvl were 500-1,000 damage; hence 750 avg hit.

You're right that you'll get more WF procs with daggers. My suspicion is that with flurry mechanics and resetting LL mechanics, that the damage delta will make us continue to want slow weapons, iLvl being equal. 67% weapon damage increase, to use a 2.6 over a 1.7.

[Skulljin]

I wouldn't mind if they just went and get rid of Flametongue for Enhancement all together.

It never gave us much notable/interesting in the first place. Some more passive damage from Auto Attacks and some small damage of Unleash Weapon.

If Double WF became baseline for Enhancement, (without the CD of course), that would make impact in that you would get much more MW Procs, which would in fact directly impact the gameplay. That way, they could also keep the Damage Component of Unleash WF, even if it is just for flavor.

[Drakoir]

guess we'll see in WoD

[Emophia]

I wouldn't mind it if if FT became ele only and Enhance went WF/Frost Brand instead of WF/WF.

The frost part of shamans get's nowhere near enough love, and enhance already has plenty of fire with LvL, flame shock, fire nova and fire totems.

I mean, windfury is my favorite part of enhance flavor wise, but I don't want to DW it.

[Omanley]

I wouldn't mind it if if FT became ele only and Enhance went WF/Frost Brand instead of WF/WF.

The frost part of shamans get's nowhere near enough love, and enhance already has plenty of fire with LvL, flame shock, fire nova and fire totems.

I mean, windfury is my favorite part of enhance flavor wise, but I don't want to DW it.

My thoughts exactly. It would also make UF:FB more avaiable and a short cd sprint is nothing to sneeze at as a no-instant-gap-closer-spec.

[Emophia]

My thoughts exactly. It would also make UF:FB more avaiable and a short cd sprint is nothing to sneeze at as a no-instant-gap-closer-spec.

Yup, it was also reduce some enhance clutter, and each shaman spec would have it's own unique imbues.

It would also prevent frost brand from becoming that spell I haven't touched in a year like it is now.

I don't any downsides really, it's either that or just remove frostbrand altogether, which I would hate because it's one of our 2 frost spells.

[Schizoide]

You're right that you'll get more WF procs with daggers. My suspicion is that with flurry mechanics and resetting LL mechanics, that the damage delta will make us continue to want slow weapons, iLvl being equal. 67% weapon damage increase, to use a 2.6 over a 1.7.

Damage vs. DPS distinction does not matter for Windfury in 6.0, as it's a 20% chance per hit with no cooldown. Daggers get more procs, but each hit does less damage. Perfectly evens out.

Flurry is a bit tricky. You will probably see higher Flurry uptime with daggers than 1Hers-- you autoattack faster, so you have more chances to crit. Of course each individual Flurry duration will be shorter because you get those 5 attacks in faster. It won't make much of a difference one way or the other.

This is all academic because Enhance will continue to want slow/slow due to instant attacks and PPM enchants. It does mean that if you get a great dagger while leveling, you can probably put it in your mainhand (not your offhand) for a bit, but that won't hold up at maxlevel.

[Skulljin]

The Frost Factor was never strong for shamans anyway.

Frost Brand and Frost Shock were pretty much the only examples I can think of from the top of my head and both pretty much only have use in PVP anyway.

Water represents quite a lot healing related stuff, so I do not complain about that element being underreprestented.



I don't really enjoy the fire theme in enhancement. Don't really know why, but I think it is because Fire Shock is just a dot for the dots sake, Flametongue some passiv damage increase and Lavalash, honestly, I never really was a fan of that at all. Mostly because it was just a filler at first that became a heavy hitter that was tied to the searing totem that I never liked either.



The one element that truly is underrepresented and that would fit Enhancement Shamans more than the other two specializations imo would be earth. I would like Lavalash some badass Melee Ability that smashes the earth open instead of some fancy small ass animated fire hit (with the Off hand).


Just imagine the beauty of an Melee that lets storm rain on enemies while making the earth quake. Beautiful.



In exchange, if players really do enjoy frost, they could make Elemental an Fire/Frost Hybrid. I think I would enjoy that much more than what Elemental currently represents. Also Mages would cry and that alone would be pretty awesome.

[Schizoide]

Flame Shock will RNG reset the Lava Lash cooldown in WoD, so you're covered there. Lava Lash damage isn't dependent on Searing Flames, so that's fixed too.

I agree that it's unfortunate that Elemental and Enhance share such a similar kit, with both specs relying on fire damage. And of course I'd love a simple cleave to AE, rather than the horrible abortion Enhance is saddled with now.

[Skulljin]

I just think they should forego the concept "Totem as a source of damage" all together, maybe except of the Elementals. Even though they could be just as well simple abilitys.

Gameplay shouldn't even change much.

Autohits + Double WF for physical damage + quick MW stacking
Storm Strike for the Buff + more MW Stacks
Lightning Bolt, but with an Animation that is actually worth the name
Keeping Earth Shock as is + a slow and a chance to reset the cooldown on Lava Lash
Lava Lash instead becoming something called Sunder Earth, being a badass Melee Attack that cleaves up the earth under the opponent for increased Damage if the enemy is suffering from the Earth Shock Debuff

How about Lightning Bolt decreases the CD on Storm Strike and Sunder Earth in Addition to what it currently does?


In essence, it would play out like it does now, but it would feel much more destructive and unique and you got some quality of life from not needing to set up the Searing Totem every minute or the need of two shocks for damage and one for a slow.

[Embermoon]

Damage vs. DPS distinction does not matter for Windfury in 6.0, as it's a 20% chance per hit with no cooldown. Daggers get more procs, but each hit does less damage. Perfectly evens out.

Flurry is a bit tricky. You will probably see higher Flurry uptime with daggers than 1Hers-- you autoattack faster, so you have more chances to crit. Of course each individual Flurry duration will be shorter because you get those 5 attacks in faster. It won't make much of a difference one way or the other.

This is all academic because Enhance will continue to want slow/slow due to instant attacks and PPM enchants. It does mean that if you get a great dagger while leveling, you can probably put it in your mainhand (not your offhand) for a bit, but that won't hold up at maxlevel.

Where did you read that WF will have a 20% proc chance? Did I miss something in the alpha notes? I thought WF was likely to use RPPM mechanics.

[Schizoide]

Why would you think that?

http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=8232

[Skulljin]

Why would you think that?

http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=8232

To be fair, the Unleash Elements Effect isn't updated.( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Lavindar]

To be fair, the Unleash Elements Effect isn't updated.( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Well it's just an alpha after all, I didn't find any of the shocks either.

[Embermoon]

Why would you think that?

http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=8232

Well, I'll be damned. Thanks for the link. I figured RPPM would be their go-to mechanic for WF with no internal CD. Wrong assumption on my part.