[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Smitus]

Just because it didn't work for once class, doesn't mean it won't work for another.

I think, theoretically, Seal twisting is much better and solid mechanic wise than stance dancing. It's just about getting execution right.

The minimal seal dancing we do now with SoT/SoR already feels super tedious and they're not even attached to any maintenance buffs yet. I can't imagine making it any more fun

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Could you elaborate as to how it could work. I'm being sincere. No sarcasm here.

The ONLY way I could see seal swapping work is if not only are they on the GCD, but all seals also share a seal-unique 15s CD. As to prevent multiple buff stacking from being effective. This concept still works better with seals off GCD than on.

edit: just caught up on thread a little. maybe a potential way seals ON GCD could work is if it cleared all our HP? But that wouldn't even fix the problem it just means you would have to time your seals so you had 0 HP when you wanted to swap.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Just because it didn't work for once class, doesn't mean it won't work for another.

Sure, communism by idea is awesome but it didn't work for the russians, or the chinese or even the japanese but I'm sure America will make it work!

Sarcasm aside stance dancing / seal dancing to unlock certain abilities are just obsticles, 2-3 target cleave is already a huge problem for rets and seal of righteous only becomes a dps increase if X is alive for Y seconds. That's not a problem they'll solve with this change, if anything they're making it worse by only allowing us accsess to one or the other. Imagine if fire mages were forced into arcane armor to use the time rollback thing or cat druids forced into bear form for thrash. Or like the warriors of old, overpower/whirlwind only usable while in X stance.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

edit: just caught up on thread a little. maybe a potential way seals ON GCD could work is if it cleared all our HP? But that wouldn't even fix the problem it just means you would have to time your seals so you had 0 HP when you wanted to swap.

That was shitty for warriors in up until some time in WotLK (or was it Cataclysm?), and got killed for being clunky and unintuitive. Bringing that kind of thing back is regression, not progression.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Perhaps the Seals being unique cd's is the way to go. Then again we might have CD stacking all over again ._.

[Smitus]

Perhaps the Seals being unique cd's is the way to go. Then again we might have CD stacking all over again ._.

I think the only way seal swapping will survive is if seals go off GCD. Maybe even a unique-seal CD in addition.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Put seals on a 0.5 sec gcd instead of 1,5 sec and it might be doable to play with.

[Smitus]

Put seals on a 0.5 sec gcd instead of 1,5 sec and it might be doable to play with.

seems crazily susceptible to any slight MS spikes

[Maegor]

Sounds like updated patch notes tomorrow. Let's see if this is included.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sounds like updated patch notes tomorrow. Let's see if this is included.

Not sure if it might be related to that. Don't expect too much. Not even trying to be negative. Just I don't expect a lot of class changes overall. Hope to be wrong though.

seems crazily susceptible to any slight MS spikes

Perhaps but..it's better then the alternative.

[Vanos27]

Just because it didn't work for once class, doesn't mean it won't work for another.

I think, theoretically, Seal twisting is much better and solid mechanic wise than stance dancing. It's just about getting execution right.

Please, tell me the benefits of this new system. I honestly can't think of anything.

[Deleted]

Please, tell me the benefits of this new system. I honestly can't think of anything.

New commercial opportunities. I predict a marked increase in the sale of blood pressure meds to high-end ret paladins.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

seems crazily susceptible to any slight MS spikes

much like any other part of the game :P


Celestalon tweeted about flaming shots (or whatever the hunter talent is called)
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...23164315340800
Basically they aim to have 1 passive mechanic/ability for the lvl 100 talent tier, thoughts?

[rad586]

If they balance it so that other, non-passive talents deal few % more dps than the passive one, I am ok with that.

1) If the passive ones are too powerful, everyone will take the passive ones.
2) If the non-passive ones will be 1% better, everyone will still take passive ones for simplicity.
3) Make non-passive ones be 3-4 % better and now people will seriously think about the choice of talents.
4) If the non-passive ones are too powerful, no one serious about raiding will take the passive ones.

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Now that I think about it, Final Verdict would need a rework - both Seraphim and Empowered Seals affect our dps all across the board. Final Verdict affects one ability.

What I'm getting at, with what Celestalon dropped last time about abilities being tied to seals, we won't be able to benefit from current Final Verdict when we go SoR (AoE mode). So that talent will be utterly useless for AoE/Cleaving fights.

[catablitz]

What I'm getting at, with what Celestalon dropped last time about abilities being tied to seals, we won't be able to benefit from current Final Verdict when we go SoR (AoE mode). So that talent will be utterly useless for AoE/Cleaving fights.

Good catch and btw if I am not mistaken the new perks for ret do not include a +20% for TV like other abilities.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If they balance it so that other, non-passive talents deal few % more dps than the passive one, I am ok with that.

1) If the passive ones are too powerful, everyone will take the passive ones.
2) If the non-passive ones will be 1% better, everyone will still take passive ones for simplicity.
3) Make non-passive ones be 3-4 % better and now people will seriously think about the choice of talents.
4) If the non-passive ones are too powerful, no one serious about raiding will take the passive ones.

3 and 4 is fine by me, higher skill requirement should result in a higher reward. I'd actually be sad if FV becomes the best talent for anything...

[Vintersol]

I think the only way seal swapping will survive is if seals go off GCD. Maybe even a unique-seal CD in addition.

The problem is: If you make seal swapping off gcd, then why it exist? Put seal x with ability y into one makro and the situation is like it's now.

[ipoststuff]

3 and 4 is fine by me, higher skill requirement should result in a higher reward. I'd actually be sad if FV becomes the best talent for anything...

I hope it becomes best for PvP. We need a hard hitting finisher. After cata and mop i'd like to be able to deal damage outside of cooldowns. I hate being so cooldown depended. I'd hate if seraphim+cooldown stacking was our only option for high pvp . And Seal twisting for small buffs is just not for pvp.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

What's good for sustained pve damage isn't necessarily good for pvp sustained or even pvp burst, as it stands now Zealotry + Final Verdict seems like the obvious choice for PvP although you could potentially gamble with DP.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

What's good for sustained pve damage isn't necessarily good for pvp sustained or even pvp burst, as it stands now Zealotry + Final Verdict seems like the obvious choice for PvP although you could potentially gamble with DP.

Nah, you want to know you'll have the burst damage in the small window you have to kill somebody. While DP's burst can be higher, you can't know it'll come when you need it.

[Maegor]

If they balance it so that other, non-passive talents deal few % more dps than the passive one, I am ok with that.

1) If the passive ones are too powerful, everyone will take the passive ones.
2) If the non-passive ones will be 1% better, everyone will still take passive ones for simplicity.
3) Make non-passive ones be 3-4 % better and now people will seriously think about the choice of talents.
4) If the non-passive ones are too powerful, no one serious about raiding will take the passive ones.

This is pretty close to how I see it. Make the non-passives a little better (3-4% like you said), and leave the passive talents in for people that don't want too much to worry about. Whether we like it or not, there are a ton of people that are very casual in pve that only lfr, and more that only lfr and flex, and a passive talent is throwing them a bone. We talk a lot about skillcap, and having a slightly weaker passive talent that a newer, or even less capable, player doesn't have to stress about isn't a bad thing. Where it becomes bad design, is if the passive is the best choice for a significant number of encounters.

Now that I think about it, Final Verdict would need a rework - both Seraphim and Empowered Seals affect our dps all across the board. Final Verdict affects one ability.

What I'm getting at, with what Celestalon dropped last time about abilities being tied to seals, we won't be able to benefit from current Final Verdict when we go SoR (AoE mode). So that talent will be utterly useless for AoE/Cleaving fights.

Currently, all that has been confirmed is that only HotR and CS are changing based on seal. The TV and DS question has been asked by a couple different people, but hasn't been answered yet. It would be a nice benefit if mass exo glyph was thrown out and exo switched mechanics based on seals (IF we are going to have to dance for abilities).