iLvl 570 for Garrosh NORMAL?

[Revak]

It's Oqueue. It's not about skill. It's about ilvl and trying to get gear as fast as possible with as little effort as possible. Doesn't matter if the 550 toon does more dps than the 565 toon. The raid leader will never know b/c they want to get the run done as quickly as possible and that means just grabbing high iLvl and not taking the chance with someone with lower gear.

[zorkuus]

Because they're smart and started their own group, which is what all the whiners should do.

In my experience such people haven't been smart but mostly bad players and as a result their groups disband rather fast once they learn the leader is looking to get carried.

[Lime]

Gear can make a difference, but gear is only a small increment. Skill will make the majority of the run faster.

So I assume you run full background checks on every single person you invite? Of course skill plays a big role, but here's an example:

Bob asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 570.
Joe asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 569.
David asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 541.
John asks you an invite and has an ilvl of 545.
Chris asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 560.

You only have 1 slot left. You want to start the run asap, but you want it to be a painless run. Who do you invite? And lets just say for the sake of the argument that they're all the same class, same spec, ect...

[DeleteThisUser]

So I assume you run full background checks on every single person you invite? Of course skill plays a big role, but here's an example:

Bob asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 570.
Joe asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 569.
David asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 541.
John asks you an invite and has an ilvl of 545.
Chris asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 560.

You only have 1 slot left. You want to start the run asap, but you want it to be a painless run. Who do you invite? And lets just say for the sake of the argument that they're all the same class, same spec, ect...

Typically people will choose the one with the highest item level, but what if Chris did more dps/damage than Bob? Let me give you an example now. Gear isn't going to prevent a tank from failing at taunting, if a specific mechanic required it. We all want a painless run. Good day.

[zorkuus]

Typically people will choose the one with the highest item level, but what if Chris did more dps/damage than Bob?

But there's no way to tell that.

[Joeygiggles]

But there's no way to tell that.

Exactly so we are just going to assume the higher ilvl is better. Either way it boils down to if you don't like the requirements keep looking or form your own group.

[Lime]

... but what if Chris did more dps/damage than Bob? ...

But that's the issue, how would you know that? There's no way half of these people will just take your word for it and anything else is just far too inconvenient. If they make the exception to look at your "proof", they'd have to do it for everyone which would turn a quick party setup into a tedious chore.

Nobody's denying that skill is important. It's all about convenience.

[GutsAP]

In my experience such people haven't been smart but mostly bad players and as a result their groups disband rather fast once they learn the leader is looking to get carried.

True enough, but their chances of getting a kill are still substantially higher.

[Vulcanasm]

So, I need to vent, and well, I just want to hear other people's opinions too. Recently my friend and I have been trying to get a normal Garrosh kill, as we don't have the time to raid, but we do extremely good DPS for our iLvl (We have been told this by many people, and I have iLvl 541, him being 567), but when we go to Oqueue or /2 all we get are people saying "You need to be 570 iLvl", I've even seen the same thing for FLEX. Its disgusting.

So my question is, why are people slapping a 570 requirement for normal, when he only drops 553, and why are people rely on some stupid number for "Brains and competence".

(Apologies if the grammar is off or anything, I woke up about an hour ago and am still tired from a frustrating night.)

Been having this problem also. I advise starting your own group, and telling people straight out: "Low dps = removed, no exceptions. Die to derp mechanics = removed, no exceptions". IMO, groups that do this have been the most successful. They won't one-shot Garrosh but they'll kill him after 2 or 3 tries.

(edit) Also, never fall for or agree to start a "single tank" Garrosh group. Maybe 10% succeed, but they do so by outgearing it ridiculously. When I did this, I was on a 581 Warlock, and below the average ilvl. It barely worked. 90% of these groups are worthless. They reach the same place (Empowered Whirl), then chain wipe to adds until healers ragequit. Why? Because there's no second tank to pull adds off the healers! By and large, "single tank" Garrosh groups are by idiots for idiots.

Take an absurd ilvl requirement for what it is, namely a warning sign. If someone thinks they need 550+ to get through any Flex boss, or 570+ to get Garrosh, either their groups are terrible or they are. If they're leading groups, they've done a lot of groups, which means there's only one constant in that equation.

[Grannon]

I've been in these 570+ groups (my own ilevel is 582). They're a breeze. The fight goes so fast you can solo tank it and basically ignore every mechanic. They're for people who just want to take a swing at the heirloom loot pinata and don't' want to waste time wiping. If that's not you, find a different group or start your own.

[sys01]

I like that he chose to kick you and not some 570 ilvl even guy with no Garrosh HC kill. Wouldn't want gear drama lol

Well, I was looking for the BoA items only anyway Didn't need any gear from Garry N. But w/e, each to their own.

[bashurfacein]

So you are mad that people are requiring gear higher than the gear that Garrosh drops, yet you want people to accept a toon that has an overall gear level lower than the gear that Garrosh drops? Kinda goes both ways. Also, after checking your armory, you have zero kills in Siege normal. For any boss. And 1 kill in flex up until Iron Juggernaut. Start gearing up and earn your keep, because with the experience on your toon, there is no way I would even believe "I've been told plenty of times that I do excellent dps for my ilvl!" because there is no evidence to even support that claim.

[omnivores]

I'd love to know why you are being so rude towards everyone? Also, I've said that I outdps the people in higher iLvl's and have proved this on many occasions.

Logs or it didn't happen. Also, where did you prove this? In LFR? Because I don't see a single normal mode kill...

On topic, I agree with everyone who is opposing you. I kill Garrosh normal every Monday night for the looms and I don't take people lower than 570 (I'm a 584 tank before you assume I'm looking for a carry.) As many have stated, it's not a run to get the 553 gear he drops or to get people their first kills. It's a run to get people in casual heroic groups who don't have Garrosh HC down more chances at heirloom weapons as quickly and painlessly as possible. If I knew you personally or had run other things with you or seen logs and felt confident that you're as good as you say at 540, I'd give you a chance. But you can't expect that from random strangers.

(edit) Also, never fall for or agree to start a "single tank" Garrosh group. Maybe 10% succeed, but they do so by outgearing it ridiculously. When I did this, I was on a 581 Warlock, and below the average ilvl. It barely worked. 90% of these groups are worthless. They reach the same place (Empowered Whirl), then chain wipe to adds until healers ragequit. Why? Because there's no second tank to pull adds off the healers! By and large, "single tank" Garrosh groups are by idiots for idiots.

This is wrong on many levels. He was one-tankable at normal mode gear levels. But if you truly think you need an offtank to pick up adds after ewc, you have bigger problems...

[Punks]

In guild we ask for around 545. If we have to pug we ask for around 550-555

[Zic]

Been having this problem also. I advise starting your own group, and telling people straight out: "Low dps = removed, no exceptions. Die to derp mechanics = removed, no exceptions". IMO, groups that do this have been the most successful. They won't one-shot Garrosh but they'll kill him after 2 or 3 tries.

(edit) Also, never fall for or agree to start a "single tank" Garrosh group. Maybe 10% succeed, but they do so by outgearing it ridiculously. When I did this, I was on a 581 Warlock, and below the average ilvl. It barely worked. 90% of these groups are worthless. They reach the same place (Empowered Whirl), then chain wipe to adds until healers ragequit. Why? Because there's no second tank to pull adds off the healers! By and large, "single tank" Garrosh groups are by idiots for idiots.

Take an absurd ilvl requirement for what it is, namely a warning sign. If someone thinks they need 550+ to get through any Flex boss, or 570+ to get Garrosh, either their groups are terrible or they are. If they're leading groups, they've done a lot of groups, which means there's only one constant in that equation.

I single tank Garrosh every week. By single tanking, you bring in another DPS, and you rarely even have to deal with EWC. The boss just dies so fast.

[Zoldor]

Been having this problem also. I advise starting your own group, and telling people straight out: "Low dps = removed, no exceptions. Die to derp mechanics = removed, no exceptions". IMO, groups that do this have been the most successful. They won't one-shot Garrosh but they'll kill him after 2 or 3 tries.

(edit) Also, never fall for or agree to start a "single tank" Garrosh group. Maybe 10% succeed, but they do so by outgearing it ridiculously. When I did this, I was on a 581 Warlock, and below the average ilvl. It barely worked. 90% of these groups are worthless. They reach the same place (Empowered Whirl), then chain wipe to adds until healers ragequit. Why? Because there's no second tank to pull adds off the healers! By and large, "single tank" Garrosh groups are by idiots for idiots.

Take an absurd ilvl requirement for what it is, namely a warning sign. If someone thinks they need 550+ to get through any Flex boss, or 570+ to get Garrosh, either their groups are terrible or they are. If they're leading groups, they've done a lot of groups, which means there's only one constant in that equation.

This depends really, but yeah in Oque most of the time the dps and the healers can't handle the 1 tank scenario. If your DPS can spread out and nuke the adds quick enough its not that bad. But if they don't get the little ones quick enough its game over. As a lock I can handle more than 1 add with ease and so can a lot of classes, most dps just tunnel Garrosh and ignore the add or stack up together and kill them on top of each other and kill themselves in the process.

Also, people not understanding that in the final phase the MCs have to be interrupted not stunned. That is a mind blow for most people in Oque sadly.

We one tank it each week, but that is with a Paladin tank and a Disc priest most weeks and DPS that know to kill multiple adds or adds that are chasing healers. Also those adds can be stunned.

[Deleted]

Its disgusting.

It's not - it's just very, very, very, very late in the expansion.
Everyone has done them thousand times and don't really have the patience for slow runs. They want quick run, minimum hassle and out.
It's their raid.

Start your own if you want to have a "challenge".

[Lochton]

So, I need to vent, and well, I just want to hear other people's opinions too. Recently my friend and I have been trying to get a normal Garrosh kill, as we don't have the time to raid, but we do extremely good DPS for our iLvl (We have been told this by many people, and I have iLvl 541, him being 567), but when we go to Oqueue or /2 all we get are people saying "You need to be 570 iLvl", I've even seen the same thing for FLEX. Its disgusting.

So my question is, why are people slapping a 570 requirement for normal, when he only drops 553, and why are people rely on some stupid number for "Brains and competence".

(Apologies if the grammar is off or anything, I woke up about an hour ago and am still tired from a frustrating night.)

That is all a common happening. I am more amazed you didn't mark it about people expecting it for Flex 4 Garrosh. But all in all, below is the only answer. Nothing nice or solving. If you can't build a bridge over the pond, you'll have to go around.

For quick smooth run.

Their raid = their rules. Don't like it? Find another one or make your own pug.

[melodramocracy]

Make your own group, or tolerate the masses who insist on easy mode / carry me gameplay.

*shrug*

[darkwarrior42]

So I assume you run full background checks on every single person you invite? Of course skill plays a big role, but here's an example:

Bob asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 570.
Joe asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 569.
David asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 541.
John asks you an invite and has an ilvl of 545.
Chris asks you for an invite and has an ilvl of 560.

You only have 1 slot left. You want to start the run asap, but you want it to be a painless run. Who do you invite? And lets just say for the sake of the argument that they're all the same class, same spec, ect...

Can I actually use my own preferences and thoughts here? Or am I obligated to use your "OMG START THE RUN AS FAST AS POSSIBLE" Restriction?

Because yes, if my sole goal was speed, I'd go with the highest ilvl. That's obvious. However, if I were actually pugging, what I would do is open each characters armory and take a quick glance looking for obvious flaws or points of excellence. If I see that the person with 570 is missing enchants, for instance, I'm not taking him. If I see the 541 has credit for heroic garrosh and has full enchants and no obvious flaws, there's a strong chance I'd take him just for the hell of it, since I don't like wasting gear or drops.

Or I'd just talk to them for a few seconds and note how they talk. You can't tell if someone is great at the game, but if they sound like an idiot I'm not taking them.


But then, all of these require more than 5 seconds of effort, which is clearly more than your scenario permits.

Edit: All that said, I don't mind groups that require 570 for normal. That tells me either the raid leader is an incompetent moron, or all he cares about is speed and not actually enjoying or playing the game, and in either case that's not a raid leader I want to waste my time with.