Anyone feel like the KJC nerf has ruined the Warlock class?

[Jessicka]

Well that's fine. Then melee shouldn't need all those gap closers and ranged abilities.

But they do, because Mages and Hunters are still very mobile, as have Boomkin and SPriests seen improvements. Only Shaman and Warlocks were nerfed.

[Deleted]

i think its good they removed it : (

[Xanattos]

For pvp and a few pve situations making the summon: teleport spell instant would be helpful and ease some of the pain of mobility. Thoughts?

[zoomgpally]

"We want to tone down caster movement, bring it back to its roots..."

*Goes out an creates Aspect of the Fox*

Same could be said about burst damage and bloodlust.
It is a raid cooldown, not a passive.

[Lord Havik]

The choice was between drastically decreasing caster mobility or their dps output. Primarily where Eleshams and Locks were concerned due to their dis-proportionally high dps compared to other classes.

Bliz opted to keep their dps pretty high when standing still and non-optimal while moving.

Given the possible alternatives for solving the problem of dps imbalance between caster and physical dps, the way Bliz went is likely the least harmful.

They could have just floored your dps and called it a day like they did to rogues after cata.

[Jessicka]

The choice was between drastically decreasing caster mobility or their dps output. Primarily where Eleshams and Locks were concerned due to their dis-proportionally high dps compared to other classes.

Bliz opted to keep their dps high when standing still and non-optimal while moving.

Given the possible alternatives for solving the problem of dps imbalance between caster and physical dps, the way Bliz went is likely the least harmful.

They could have just floored your dps and called it a day like they did to rogues after cata.

Except that any notion that there's a global nerf to ranged mobility is an outright fucking lie. Stop perpetuating it.

[Replica]

But they do, because Mages and Hunters are still very mobile, as have Boomkin and SPriests seen improvements. Only Shaman and Warlocks were nerfed.

CoP instant mind blast is not really casting on the move - its a great improvement, but its not KJC.
Spamming SWP is no longer considered a periodic initial first tick which was used to proc periodic trinkets (LotC, etc.) it only ever did a small amount of damage anyways, and if there is a large snapshot on it its usually not worth it to override it.

[Lord Havik]

Except that any notion that there's a global nerf to ranged mobility is an outright fucking lie. Stop perpetuating it.

Of course it isn't global. It is primarily focused on locks and shammies. Their burst and sustained damage in both PVE and PVP were disproportional to their mobility in MoP.

My point remains valid, locks and eleshams were bound for a nerf and the two most direct options were nerfing their mobility or their overall dps and burst. Bliz opted for the former rather than the latter.

Either way, people who were directly effected would complain.

[Jessicka]

There's no snapshot to worry about in WoD.

[imnotatroll]

"Yes!" -- guy who started playing a warlock this expansion.

[Archimand]

kjc nerf was done badly, shouldve made the talent baseline and give somthing proper instead.


atm its just terrible version of the shaman baseline spell, also we lost fel flame for no reason while mages get to keep thier instants "insert sarcastic remark here".

[Fullmetal89]

I don't think so, I was still doing fine after KJC nerf during MoP and I was doing fine as affliction in the xpacs before MoP. I will say that they got carried away with the 'balancing' of the warlock class in WoD. There's balancing, and then there's the full retard mode nerfs they have thrown at us in WoD. Those people that rolled FoTM locks during MoP are in for a rude awakening. I haven't had such a bad time playing my Warlock since Cataclysm.

[Dole4011]

No raid utility?.. lol Hunters are my definition of raid utility! but that's irrelevant ...

How do you define raid utility? Bringing no unique, worthwhile raid CDs?

[Jessicka]

Of course it isn't global. It is primarily focused on locks and shammies. Their burst and sustained damage in both PVE and PVP were disproportional to their mobility in MoP.

My point remains valid, locks and eleshams were bound for a nerf and the two most direct options were nerfing their mobility or their overall dps and burst. Bliz opted for the former rather than the latter.

Either way, people who were directly effected would complain.

You're the first person I've seen complaining about Elemental damage. We were overpowered because we were overtuned, not too many people are defending KJC, but FF could easily be tuned to deliver that "low damage" like Scorch, SWP, Moonfire,but I still see the likes of you touting this bullshit about global nerfs we know isn't true to defend it being cut.

[Zoldor]

The better fix would have been to make Fire and Brimstone Incinerate casts not work with KJC. That is where all this OP warlock crap comes from anyways. Is we can use max damage AE while moving by dropping Rain, the Conflag and Incinerate on the move. Incinerate and MG just aren't that powerful alone, they are filler spells and should be fine to cast while moving. For PvP we had too much utility in Arena by having teleport, Auto-Gate and KJC. Instead of nerfing KJC they could have removed the use of Gate in Arena. Keeping KJC and teleport and we wouldn't be that much more mobile than any other caster. Or they could make the other two talents worth taking. Mann's Fury is a terrible talent and blizzard should be ashamed of it.

Still this is the Melee expansion because they feel like melee has been neglected and ranged has had too many advantages. Which I find to be BS, maybe in pvp but from a pve perspective, besides the fights where guides claim melee isn't needed or hurts the fight which is BS it can be done with gear and a minor amount of competence, melee is no worse off than ranged and on a lot of fights were it is drastically easier to be melee.

Still been a ranged caster since day one, we'll adapt. On paper it all sounds terrible, but really its in the hands of the encounter designers. If the encounters are actually taking into account low mobility and we go back to that model from the wrath prior era then it will be fine. They keep doing fight design like Cata and MoP it will be a struggle and everyone will be a dps warrior.

For Demo it will always depend on what the fight sees you as, are you a melee or are you a ranged for encounter mechanics. I feel the worst for demo it seems to be the one struggling the most currently.

As always I feel by the end of the expansion we'll be as powerful as we always are. I can't remember an expansion that by the end of it we weren't a top 5 dps class. Maybe Cata, I played my lock outside progression in Cata so my ideas on it are a little less clear than all other expansions.

[Deleted]

I could go into how the KJC nerf has wrecked my enthusiasm for the class but instead I will do some emotes in relation to how I felt playing with the Warlock class through the years:

Vanilla = :-/ - I liked soul stones, draining souls was fun. That drain life reminds me of vampires. I must rp a goth type in Goldshire. But I like mage better.
TBC = :-/ They only want me for the summon. I shall become a destro glass cannon to compete with mages. Still feel like a second class mage who got the short straw magic class.
TLK = :-) I like all this change. I can make whirly swirly soul shard evocation. Fast dreadsteed is at the trainer now. Whoop. Don't feel like a failed mage, Warlock is its own class now.
Cata = :-D I like this. I like demon and destro specs a lot now. Ember tap and chaotic energy? Et tu mages.
MoP = 8-D KJC and Green Fire? Yes yes . Yes, I say Blizz. YES.
WoD = 8-O KJC WTF? And I'm paying Blizz to do that to my locks too. Oh the shame, the shame. Back to mage.

[Xanattos]

I don't think so, I was still doing fine after KJC nerf during MoP and I was doing fine as affliction in the xpacs before MoP. I will say that they got carried away with the 'balancing' of the warlock class in WoD. There's balancing, and then there's the full retard mode nerfs they have thrown at us in WoD. Those people that rolled FoTM locks during MoP are in for a rude awakening. I haven't had such a bad time playing my Warlock since Cataclysm.

I thoroughly enjoyed demo throughout all of cata. Yeah it was clunky and very unforgiving but there was stuff to do, always.

[Crisius]

Are people really using that "Warlock stationary DPS" is high as a justification for the lack of movement? How about no - warlocks are in fact the lowest single-target DPS on the beta even on a stationary fight. Every other class has at least one specc which is better than all three warlock specs. Can't wait for the next round of tuning.

[Baconeggcheese]

Can't wait for the next round of tuning.

Someone mentioned the tuning should be going in last night or this morning at the end of raid yesterday and my reaction was *bracing myself*.

[Bathory]

I dunno about ruined. Sure it sucks, but it's not like the casting classes have been mobile for very long.