Women's Rights Can't Be a One-Way Street

[Deleted]

snip and in a lot of cases because many women chose not to opt for certain jobs thus skewing the gender representation there. Nothing of this can be fixed by feminism.

well once the matriarchy is installed, they can always start forcing women to take those jobs.

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First of hiding something like being pregnant doesn't sound like a women right to me but just a dick thing.

Not having to tell anyone about the pregnancy is a "right" (its not actually, but the state cant make you do it but that is a distinction with minor value)
there exists in no way what-so-fucking ever a right to Not tell the father about the child once born however, sadly i know of no jurisdiction that mandates that women does this (which would be trivial to do, as no rights what so ever are being trampled on).

It might be me but if you don't tell the farther about the child how is she going to get child support? Unless the farther raped her, did horrible things in general then my guess is that their isn't a judge that will say ''you can't see the child but you have to pay child support''.

You always have to pay child support, even if you were the one raped, i will state that again, Even if you were raped, the state can, and more fucking importantly, DO make you pay it.
and several jurisdictions lets the woman claim child support afterwards, there was a, hilarious, case a couple of years ago that a man was made to pay 15 years worth of back child support, For a child he was never told existed.
But yeah, system is awesome, and any faults will be fixed by feminism, who protested when they changed the laws to try to fix it, badly, in that they did not go far enough to actually fix anything. (and that wasn't what they were complaining about)

[wolphe]

I will never really buy these sorts of arguments. The inherent asymmetry of the biology will always mean that the woman is more invested physically in a pregnancy than the man. They simply aren't equivalent things. Equal rights in a context of unequal biology is not a great idea.

So with that logica, women should not have the right to demand child support. You can't have it so that a female get's to decide if she wants to tell the father or not, while at the same time, the father is obligated to pay child support. If males are obligated to pay child support, females are obligated to tell the father that she's pregnant.

[Celista]

So with that logica, women should not have the right to demand child support.

For the situation outlined in the OP, child support is likely never going to come into the equation. It is almost impossible to get (and enforce) child support when the two parents live in separate countries. The United States has a reciprocal agreement for international child support with fifteen member countries, Ireland being one of them (country mentioned in the OP) but even then it would be difficult to enforce considering that the man and woman in question were not married. Not 100% impossible, but just highly unlikely.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R43109.pdf

[Elegiac]

So with that logica, women should not have the right to demand child support. You can't have it so that a female get's to decide if she wants to tell the father or not, while at the same time, the father is obligated to pay child support. If males are obligated to pay child support, females are obligated to tell the father that she's pregnant.

I'm sorry, but are you saying that people should be obliged to divulge private medical information for absolutely no good reason?

[Celista]

So with that logica, women should not have the right to demand child support. You can't have it so that a female get's to decide if she wants to tell the father or not, while at the same time, the father is obligated to pay child support. If males are obligated to pay child support, females are obligated to tell the father that she's pregnant.

If you're paying child support then you already know you have a child...no male on the planet is going to have to answer a mysterious court summon and be legally forced to make payments without being told the reason why. >.<

[Jester Joe]

Feminism did not in any instance ever actually help with a male issue, so your "that's why feminism still exists" makes little sense. As for the jobs, they're usually not kept out of them because they're women but because they don't fulfill the minimum physical requirements and in a lot of cases because many women chose not to opt for certain jobs thus skewing the gender representation there. Nothing of this can be fixed by feminism.

I think you confused what I was talking about.

I wasn't saying Feminism helped with any male issues, I meant its working to get females equal rights when it comes to jobs and other things. If it's succeeding or not is another story.

[Revi]

If you're paying child support then you already know you have a child...no male on the planet is going to have to answer a mysterious court summon and be legally forced to make payments without being told the reason why. >.<

The point is that a woman should have to inform the father of the baby right away, if she ever wishes to collect any child support. Right now (in the US), she can keep it a secret for 17 years and then come clean, and be entitled to 17 years worth of child support.

If women can demand child support, it should only be from the point she informed the father that he had a child.

[Celista]

The point is that a woman should have to inform the father of the baby right away, if she ever wishes to collect any child support. Right now (in the US), she can keep it a secret for 17 years and then come clean, and be entitled to 17 years worth of child support.

If women can demand child support, it should only be from the point she informed the father that he had a child.

Back child support doesn't work like that, there is a statute of limitations on collecting back child support and if you wait that long, the judge is going to want to know why you waited so long to establish paternity and collect.

Basically back child support is for cases where the father was in prison/unemployed for a significant period of time and the mother could not collect, or the father couldn't be found etc.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, but are you saying that people should be obliged to divulge private medical information for absolutely no good reason?

It stops being a private medical information once the child is actually born. If she choses not to name the father, keep the whole thing a secret then she shouldn't be allowed to ever change said opinion and suddenly sue the father for money which in quite a few cases has happened often times a long time after suddenly throwing a hell of a load of debt onto someone's shoulders who had at no point any rights or say in this matter and can go to jail if he's unable to pay it.

This is a case of having your bread buttered both sides and then complain about actually getting butter onto your fingers before turning around and expecting someone else to take responsibility for their choices.

I wasn't saying Feminism helped with any male issues, I meant its working to get females equal rights when it comes to jobs and other things. If it's succeeding or not is another story.

I'm all for equal rights for people and that's the thing, in the vast mayority of cases women have equal rights nowadays and in quite a lot such as reproduction they pretty much hold all the rights. So claiming that "pay gap" and "lower presentation of females" in some jobs is because they're put at an disadvantage when they often chose to pick other fields rather than those or simply do aren't unable to reach the minimum required specifics makes no sense whatsoever.

Also "feminism" sure as hell isn't about getting women equal rights (at least you don't pretend it's about equal rights for everyone) but it's about furthering and propagating their agend which wont stop once "equal" rights is reached but merely keeps going from there, the next step is usually the "equal outcome" in cases where they're less represented or while blissfully ignoring why things like the pay gap still exist (less work hours and so on) while simultaneously not being bothered that young unmarried childless women often outearn their male pears in quite a few fields nowadays despite fewer working hours. It'll be fun to see what comes next.

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Basically back child support is for cases where the father was in prison/unemployed for a significant period of time and the mother could not collect, or the father couldn't be found etc.

Remember that women who went after a 14 year old boy, got herself pregnant, went to jail for something like 5 years while her family took care of the child? She managed to get back child support for several years once she came out of prison.

[Sunseeker]

I'm sorry, but are you saying that people should be obliged to divulge private medical information for absolutely no good reason?

If you want money for it, yes.

If Bob hits me with his car, and breaks my arm, I don't really see the problem with telling him he broke my arm when I expect him to pay for it. You should never be able to extract money from another person for 'unspecified reasons'.

[Claborn]

Moral of the story, the child support system is totally flawed to me... men get screwed left and right, women abuse it and the money asked is usually way more than needed to support a child or even gets used to support the child. You got a deadbeat dad? Deal with it, it takes 2 people to make a kid, choose your sex partners wiser.

[ati87]

well once the matriarchy is installed, they can always start forcing women to take those jobs.

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Not having to tell anyone about the pregnancy is a "right" (its not actually, but the state cant make you do it but that is a distinction with minor value)
there exists in no way what-so-fucking ever a right to Not tell the father about the child once born however, sadly i know of no jurisdiction that mandates that women does this (which would be trivial to do, as no rights what so ever are being trampled on).





You always have to pay child support, even if you were the one raped, i will state that again, Even if you were raped, the state can, and more fucking importantly, DO make you pay it.
and several jurisdictions lets the woman claim child support afterwards, there was a, hilarious, case a couple of years ago that a man was made to pay 15 years worth of back child support, For a child he was never told existed.
But yeah, system is awesome, and any faults will be fixed by feminism, who protested when they changed the laws to try to fix it, badly, in that they did not go far enough to actually fix anything. (and that wasn't what they were complaining about)

First of their is a difference between a legal right and a personal right.

Women don't have the legal right to hide the fact that they are pregnant. If a women wants to hide the fact that she is pregnant from the guy then its her personal right to do so, but she can't be sued for hiding the pregnancy nor can a guy be sued for hiding the fact that he has a wife for example.

Second part of your rant.
I was referring to the point where the women was going for child support while the farther has no knowledge of the child. That just doesn't work, you can't say to the judge ''this child is his'' and not have the farther verify that himself by at least a DNA test.

And the case you mentioned was about a lesbian couple that decided to split while the state didn't recognise same sex marriage (I think). The whole problem with that case was more how a conservative (your party probably) created and upheld messed up different laws

ALso if you rape a women and the women gets pregnant and decides for some reason to keep it then you should pay for that child while at the same time have no saying or right to see that child.

[Frogguh]

I mean, I'm willing to say that waiting until the child is actually born before telling the father to be, is fine. It's not a kid yet, it's just a fetus growing inside her womb. Who's to say it will even make out alive?

But once it's a baby, a kid, a person. Than yeah, you should tell Dad that he's a Dad.

It's your body, but it's not your kid.

Disagree. Those months could be very crucial for the father to prepare himself financially for the very real possibility of child support. I live in an apartment because child support takes so much of my money that I can't afford a house. What if this guy bought a house and then got slapped with child support out of the blue?

[Deleted]

I wasn't saying Feminism helped with any male issues,

This is just a standard retarded talking point out of feminists.

I meant its working to get females equal rights when it comes to jobs and other things. If it's succeeding or not is another story.

in virtually all of the western world, this was achieved in the 50s-70s.

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I'm sorry, but are you saying that people should be obliged to divulge private medical information for absolutely no good reason?

its only private medical information prior to birth.

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Back child support doesn't work like that, there is a statute of limitations on collecting back child support and if you wait that long, the judge is going to want to know why you waited so long to establish paternity and collect.

Yeah, A not universal, and the rule should be, Zero dollars for all time prior to informing the father.
Zero.
No fucking exceptions.
You dont know who he is?
Well, independent actors making voluntary actions, can be fucking expected to carry the burden of making those fucking decisions.
Its called "reality".

Basically back child support is for cases where the father was in prison/unemployed for a significant period of time and the mother could not collect, or the father couldn't be found etc.

this is completely fucking false.

ALso if you rape a women and the women gets pregnant and decides for some reason to keep it then you should pay for that child while at the same time have no saying or right to see that child.

Sure, also know as pretty much the way it is today.
i see your hyperbolic unrealistic shitty tangent with:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...port/14953965/
Except, oh, mine is the standard fucking legal practice.
Also known as relevant and realistic.

[Celista]

this is completely fucking false.

You can look at the cases yourself, I've never heard of a woman knowing the paternity of her child, knowing the man was making money and able to make payments and waiting several decades to start collecting. If cases exist, they are rare...more often the father can't be found, she's unsure of paternity or the father is unemployed or in prison.

Paternity cases are so trashy, I hate discussing this side of law >.<

[Deleted]

You can look at the cases yourself, I've never heard of a woman knowing the paternity of her child, knowing the man was making money and able to make payments and waiting several decades to start collecting. If cases exist, they are rare...more often the father can't be found, she's unsure of paternity or the father is unemployed or in prison.

Paternity cases are so trashy, I hate discussing this side of law >.<

They exist, their numbers are moot.
As for the

ather can't be found, she's unsure of paternity or the father is unemployed or in prison.

One, her problem, and solely her fucking problem.
Two, Ibid.
Three, child support is still ticking, so moot.
Four, Ibid.

This is all centred around the central premise that a woman is under ZERO obligation to inform the father, or name him.
This should just be changed, drastically.
I mean, its completely possible to charge her with kidnapping here unless she informs the father.
Im not kidding or exaggerating.

[Celista]

I mean, its completely possible to charge her with kidnapping here unless she informs the father.
Im not kidding or exaggerating.

*shrug*

Wrap it up and/or only have sex in committed relationships then. Your response seems a little extreme to me, although I understand why you would be upset to be kept in the dark regarding the existence of your offspring.

[Deleted]

*shrug*

Offensive.

Wrap it up and/or only have sex in committed relationships then

Legal constructs are not predicated on the notion that everyone does what they are supposed to do, by default, Duh.

Your response seems a little extreme to me, although I understand why you would be upset to be kept in the dark regarding the existence of your offspring.

Oh im sorry what it the appropriate response to someone kidnapping your child? im fairly certain mine is reasonable.

[Rukentuts]

*shrug*

Wrap it up and/or only have sex in committed relationships then. Your response seems a little extreme to me, although I understand why you would be upset to be kept in the dark regarding the existence of your offspring.

He fundamentally confuses next of kin. If the law doesn't recognize a relationship one can't be charged with kidnapping. I don't know what world of fantasy he has chosen to reside in.

[Deleted]

He fundamentally confuses next of kin. If the law doesn't recognize a relationship one can't be charged with kidnapping. I don't know what world of fantasy he has chosen to reside in.

You cant read apparently.

This is all centred around the central premise that a woman is under ZERO obligation to inform the father, or name him.

This is my problem.
it would be trivial to make it the way i want.
that is of course not supposed to be taken as an inference that it is the way i want it to be, Duh.

Also, i dont confuse next of kin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_of..._United_States

Read it.
Find me the single fucking line requiring a "connection".
No matter the fucking prior state, the second a father proves he is the father, He is accorded every single fucking right barring a court order.
by virtue of it not being the second coming of Jesus, there IS a father, and by virtue of being the Father He has rights, the state can act on his behalf easily enough, or the child, both have a right to connect to each other.
And the mothers wishes are fucking immaterial.