[6.2] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Deleted]

Dark Soul glyph + Cata: I noticed that quite a few top logs on Iron Maidens and Blast furnace use this combination so that they can line up DS with every single Cataclysm.

While Cata+DS Glyph seems to be frowned upon in this thread, I can see the logic on those two fights as they are long (the uptime loss from the glyph is mitigated) and you can cast Cata on cooldown on multiple targets every time, but it also kinda feels like padding as it means shorter burns in the "important parts" (moreso on maidens as glyph can maybe get you one DS per elementalist on furnace?). What's the right thing to do here?

[FurtyIRL]

Dark Soul glyph + Cata: I noticed that quite a few top logs on Iron Maidens and Blast furnace use this combination so that they can line up DS with every single Cataclysm.

While Cata+DS Glyph seems to be frowned upon in this thread, I can see the logic on those two fights as they are long (the uptime loss from the glyph is mitigated) and you can cast Cata on cooldown on multiple targets every time, but it also kinda feels like padding as it means shorter burns in the "important parts" (moreso on maidens as glyph can maybe get you one DS per elementalist on furnace?). What's the right thing to do here?

For progression on a fight like Maidens I'd advocate no glyph just because the 20s DS is more pushing power and single target in the phases that count. The window you have to damage the elementalists on Mythic is exactly 20s so I'd also unglyph there for progression. On our rekill I used DS on the first three elementalists then banked for P3 on the fourth. Not really sure what the right option is because I'm certain that on this fight specifically it's going to depend heavily on your comp and what kind of damage your raid needs. Glyph is definitely better if you need a more cleave-y setup on firecallers etc. Weigh the relative merits and drawbacks of each and make the decision depending on your guild's setup, imo.

[Deleted]

alright, thanks furty !

[Soulzar]

The loss of Felstorm isn't cosmetic.

Agreed, though the loss of one binding to an AoE ability doesn't really impact the feel of the spec in a single a target fight, IMO. You lose the active use of Felstorm, but gain one in Service: Doomguard.

Now if Felguard was not the best pet for AoE or Cleave, then I would agree. I don't understand what the big loss is in being able to use a different pet as Demo for the fist time in years, on like 3 fights....

[Jessicka]

Agreed, though the loss of one binding to an AoE ability doesn't really impact the feel of the spec in a single a target fight, IMO. You lose the active use of Felstorm, but gain one in Service: Doomguard.

Always used Service, this isn't new to me or anyone else who played Demo in MoP.

Now if Felguard was not the best pet for AoE or Cleave, then I would agree. I don't understand what the big loss is in being able to use a different pet as Demo for the fist time in years, on like 3 fights....

Just the fact that its the same the other specs use; its loss of something thats been a signature since TBC; and importantly Felguard is the only pet with any DPS interaction.

[The Trunk Munky]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=3
Would anyone mind taking a look at this log to see why my single target DPS was absolute shit on this Gruul kill?

At first I couldn't see anything but on closer look, if I have read the logs correctly then:

- somehow Instability only procced 3 times in a 6 min fight when it's meant to be a 0.91 ppm, which is... bizarre.
- you could have saved your Grimoire: doomguard for <20% for a DPS gain.
- you could be getting Chaos Waves off with Crit Trinket proc and Dark Soul at the same time. I especially like doing this when I have used all my MC procs and Corruption is at max duration so you are getting max DPS.
- you cast Shadow Bolt 3 times when the boss is <20%

Not a lot tbh, it probably wouldn't spike your DPS up by anything more than 1 or maybe 2K (if you include better trinket luck). The CW thing I'm not sure if there is definitive maths on but I intend to do it myself as soon as I have the time.

[Deleted]

That's completely irrelevant. Let me explain:

Simple math dictates that it isn't much of a dps gain to use 4 demonbolts in a row instead of 2, if any. This is because, if you read the talent, the demonic fury cost increases considerably every cast. The damage not so much. Therefore, the higher the stacks, the less damage per fury you do. The first demonbolt is always the most efficient for fury/damage ratio. Since the nerf the 3rd and 4th casts have become less efficient.

I think you missed the spreadsheet.

[zvvl]

That's completely irrelevant. Let me explain:

Simple math dictates that it isn't much of a dps gain to use 4 demonbolts in a row instead of 2, if any. This is because, if you read the talent, the demonic fury cost increases considerably every cast. The damage not so much. Therefore, the higher the stacks, the less damage per fury you do. The first demonbolt is always the most efficient for fury/damage ratio. Since the nerf the 3rd and 4th casts have become less efficient.

Damage per fury is not the only deciding factor in whether or not it is a Damage per SECOND gain.

At first I couldn't see anything but on closer look, if I have read the logs correctly then:

- somehow Instability only procced 3 times in a 6 min fight when it's meant to be a 0.91 ppm, which is... bizarre.
- you could have saved your Grimoire: doomguard for <20% for a DPS gain.
- you could be getting Chaos Waves off with Crit Trinket proc and Dark Soul at the same time. I especially like doing this when I have used all my MC procs and Corruption is at max duration so you are getting max DPS.
- you cast Shadow Bolt 3 times when the boss is <20%

Not a lot tbh, it probably wouldn't spike your DPS up by anything more than 1 or maybe 2K (if you include better trinket luck). The CW thing I'm not sure if there is definitive maths on but I intend to do it myself as soon as I have the time.

Thanks for your analysis. 3 trinket procs was super frustrating, really annoying to cast unbuffed soul fires.

[Deleted]

Sure I have been. If you're going to go with a 2 Demonbolt cycle you don't take DS glyph so there is a lot more room for spending Fury overall on a number of different spells also simply giving you more movement ability than a standard 4 Demonbolt cycle.

Each way will work but in different ways.

Now if you take the time to read the spreadsheet I posted, or at least read the post, you will see that even the 4th DB has a better damage ratio than any other spell you can cast. So if you believe the calculations or just recognize that your analysis does not account for cast time you will come to this conclusion.

Now there is also the DS argument. DS is by far the most powerful cooldown you have, giving between 45% and 60% increased DPS depending on your mastery.
With 4 DS you can spend all your fury during a 10 second DS.
On a 400 second fight, this is 8000 fury spent under DS.
With no DS glyph you will spend at most 4000 fury during DS. This is a very big loss on this cooldown.

At last if you think using DB to 30% of its full capacity is viable, then it means that Demonbolt should be significantly weaker than the other level 100 talents. However it is not. It is weaker but only by a small margin.

[Woz]

Now if you take the time to read the spreadsheet I posted, or at least read the post, you will see that even the 4th DB has a better damage ratio than any other spell you can cast. So if you believe the calculations or just recognize that your analysis does not account for cast time you will come to this conclusion.

Now there is also the DS argument. DS is by far the most powerful cooldown you have, giving between 45% and 60% increased DPS depending on your mastery.
With 4 DS you can spend all your fury during a 10 second DS.
On a 400 second fight, this is 8000 fury spent under DS.
With no DS glyph you will spend at most 4000 fury during DS. This is a very big loss on this cooldown.

At last if you think using DB to 30% of its full capacity is viable, then it means that Demonbolt should be significantly weaker than the other level 100 talents. However it is not. It is weaker but only by a small margin.

I read both the post and the spreadsheet, however there are raid situations where you simply won't be able to get all 4 casts of Demonbolt off reliably every time.

In an ideal world sure 4 Demonbolts is definitely the way to go, while there are many situations where you will have to opportunity to cast 4 Demonbolts, there are also scenarios where you won't be able to.

Like I said before there are scenarios where you can go with either situation and do OK, but not every encounter will be the same even in terms of a rotation in general.

[Novx]

The loss of Felstorm isn't cosmetic.

Hence why I said mostly, you gain an interrupt which is extremely valuable in a LOT of the current encounters.

[Deleted]

I read both the post and the spreadsheet, however there are raid situations where you simply won't be able to get all 4 casts of Demonbolt off reliably every time.

In an ideal world sure 4 Demonbolts is definitely the way to go, while there are many situations where you will have to opportunity to cast 4 Demonbolts, there are also scenarios where you won't be able to.

Like I said before there are scenarios where you can go with either situation and do OK, but not every encounter will be the same even in terms of a rotation in general.

There is a big difference between saying that on some encounters you should not aim for 4 DB and you may not be able to cast 4 DB.
With unglyphed DS, I have trouble imagining a situation where you would not be able to get 6-8 second of cast in a 20 second window every two minutes.
In this case I would recommand to take KJC as this will be big DPS gain in this case.

[Rayaleith]

There is a big difference between saying that on some encounters you should not aim for 4 DB and you may not be able to cast 4 DB.
With unglyphed DS, I have trouble imagining a situation where you would not be able to get 6-8 second of cast in a 20 second window every two minutes.
In this case I would recommand to take KJC as this will be big DPS gain in this case.

Would like to see some parses from you with 4xDB and in general everything that is in your spreadsheet. They seem right but I want to see these in practice! Do you have any>?

[Gaidax]

I still don't see how Demonbolt is viable at anything now compared to Serv/Serv, you lose a lot of mobility, you tap like mad, you lose some DPS and you only gain more burst windows that won't necessarily align well with the encounter.

I'm not even beginning to count what Serv/Serv has beyond what was lost by DB above, which is interrupt and insane 2-min and on pull burst.

[Gorthan]

I still don't see how Demonbolt is viable at anything now compared to Serv/Serv, you lose a lot of mobility, you tap like mad, you lose some DPS and you only gain more burst windows that won't necessarily align well with the encounter.

I'm not even beginning to count what Serv/Serv has beyond what was lost by DB above, which is interrupt and insane 2-min and on pull burst.

Furnace is the only encounter where DB could be viable if your raid is struggling with elementalist.

[Cyberthug32]

On Furnace I went Serv/Serv and had no problem putting out total 5.5 million to the primal ele.

From what I have seen thats a good amount to single target.

[nerdzrool]

I still don't see how Demonbolt is viable at anything now compared to Serv/Serv, you lose a lot of mobility, you tap like mad, you lose some DPS and you only gain more burst windows that won't necessarily align well with the encounter.

I'm not even beginning to count what Serv/Serv has beyond what was lost by DB above, which is interrupt and insane 2-min and on pull burst.

We keep running into this "viable" word. Demonbolt is a minimal dps loss over serv/serv on most fights and the people who enjoy playing it still want to optimize it.

On Furnace I went Serv/Serv and had no problem putting out total 5.5 million to the primal ele.

From what I have seen thats a good amount to single target.

The difference is consistency. You won't have service up for every elemental (2 at best), whereas you'll have a full DB rotation up for every one.

[Caides]

We keep running into this "viable" word. Demonbolt is a minimal dps loss over serv/serv on most fights and the people who enjoy playing it still want to optimize it.



The difference is consistency. You won't have Servitude up for every elemental (2 at best), whereas you'll have a full DB rotation up for every one.

I think you're confusing Service and Servitude. Servitude is the most consistent damage source you could ask for. It also depends on the needs of your group, too.

[nerdzrool]

I think you're confusing Service and Servitude. Servitude is the most consistent damage source you could ask for. It also depends on the needs of your group, too.

You are correct in both; I meant service and talent choice for that fight definitely depends on group comp as furty mentioned above.

[Deleted]

after my performance tonight, i think, i need some help with my demo (probably destro too), it's the first time i feel really bad with my gameplay and my dps

i already had the probleme with cataclysm gameplay, i dont know how to manage my fury and my MC charge. i see " use soul fire on meta when you got procs " but if i do that i had not enough fury and soul fire for the dark soul phase. I'm really confused about how playing my demo with service/dservitude, so i switch back on demonbolt but it's slightly better and i do not really like it.

warcraftlogs .com/reports/L3YTWPXtfbKFvdxB/#type=damage-done

log from tonight, it's just orgorger, the first try was with service/servitude and next with demonbolt (i did one in destru but was weird)

i'm kamina