Not enough Raiders in Trion Rift - Raids nerfed 50% ???

[Queen of Hamsters]

Surprised to see this, I thought Rift was one of the mmorpgs fairing best amongst them all.

And that's the key issue here,for it's many faults at least in WoW one can come back to the game anytime,put in maybe 2-4 weeks of reasonable "grind" and be happily raiding the latest tier with their friends.

We had many good and reliable players come back to our guild whom we were glad to have join our raiding team,we didn't have to keep running old stuff over and over again to gear them up and everyone was happy.

At this point as far as Rift is concerned i'm pretty sure Trion is somewhat preying on new/returning player's misery in the hope they will sink their hard earned cash into the store and keep the grind as such on purpose.

Not if a certain crowd gets their way again. Then it'll be back to spending all time in-game preparing/trying to prepare for even stepping foot into the raids, with raids being mechanically piss easy as a result. <.<

[theWocky]

Hehe, you can put all tinfoil hats away. What we are experiencing is, in fact, an actual influx of new (and returning) players.

Forum activity does not gel with in-game exodus and discussions of disgruntled players in TeamSpeak.

But wait, WUT? Raids nerfed 50%? That wasn't in any of our patch notes, heh. Somehow I doubt it.

How can you come here and spew this nonsense, plead such ignorance? You know damn well this is in progress right now. Even offering free loot that you earn on the PTS to be transferred to the Live servers? Puzzled as you seem unable to read your own forums. Hell, I took the opportunity to make links, post twitter-feed pictures. Then again, it is that DEV_Anony, so who knows what's true, ay? Maybe it's the players fault?

Oh, wait... the thread will be deleted?

As far as monetization goes, it's another constant balancing act to keep RIFT alive and healthy.

And sadly, Trion is failing miserably. Being an MMORPG with an absolute identity crisis. Completely misleading... no tricks, no traps, indeed. Shame on you, Trion from going from the underdog to what many of my friends perceive to now just be greedy.

Brasse(Linda Carlson, Director of Community, Trion Worlds)

We don't doubt it's you. So, do in-game bans still count for calling out Trion's BS on other forums? Or for putting pictures on twitch feeds? You know - like banning people in Skype conversations? Maybe I should speak to x to tell y to tell big A about it?

[Lathais]

Surprised to see this, I thought Rift was one of the mmorpgs fairing best amongst them all.

Well, they do not, and never have as far as I know, release ANY numbers about their financials as they are not even a publicly traded company. They are a privately owned and operated company and have no shareholders to report to so there is no way of knowing anything at all about how well they do.

[theWocky]

First time poster here, but hey, I am not made up either - Mods, feel free to drop me a line to verify identity if needed. =)
Brasse
(Linda Carlson, Director of Community, Trion Worlds)

Suggestions to attract players (and keep them):

Make a US$50 pack to buy all DLC's, earing slots, manugo, PW rep and get people up to speed. No tricks, no traps.
Keep the mounts in store. Include 3 x additional bag slots.
Not the current fee of over US$200 for all-purchase of items and bag slots.
Hell, you can even leave that half-baked Primalist calling out of the US$50 entry deal.

Make up your mind if you're F2P, B2P or P2P and how much P2W? Being all four is confusing.

Merge the servers. One PvE and one PvP.
As it is now, with low pop status 90% of the time, the game looks empty and drives people away.

Stop releasing new, redundant unfinished class and soul packs and fix the old ones.
"Primalist. Putting animal heads on the souls you already own" ~ Seatin

Stop putting misleading lock-boxes in "epic colours" in the game "unstable cache" - drops a "high value item" - no, it doesn't!
How many poor saps you going to milk out of US$1 ? A lock-box (that costs a US$1 to open) perceived to be so useless, that drops so often, people have asked for macro's to automatically trash them. No joke. ~ if this isn't just outright preying on your customers, I don't know what is.

Reduce the Raid gear treadmill. Make a zone like Arcterra in Wildstar or Tanaan Jungle in WoW for players to work in.
Don't cheapen the raid experience for people in T3.
Allow more people to gear up with T2 gear with enchants, essences and gear upgrades being not another cash grab.

Stop releasing broken raids so that you can put gear for sale in lock-boxes and in gear bundles - this is the perception of many people in the raid community.


I don't bother on the Rift forums any more, because you get banned for two weeks saying "f--king" <- typed just like that.

as in: Rift is not worth over 150 f--king dollars + bag slots (more money) + additional ascended souls (more money). Reduce the entry fee so more new players can enter.


New players are not your problem - player retention is - any new players, the way the game is now, will leave - and probably feel "shafted" for wasting their time (and money) when they hit the grind at level 60 and faced with the confusing ambiguous business model.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Well, they do not, and never have as far as I know, release ANY numbers about their financials as they are not even a publicly traded company. They are a privately owned and operated company and have no shareholders to report to so there is no way of knowing anything at all about how well they do.

I meant more in terms of what they're giving their fans and their business model.

[Lathais]

I meant more in terms of what they're giving their fans and their business model.

Well, the one thing Wocky currently leaves out of his side of the srgument is of course that all that stuff you can buy with "cash" is actually bought with credits which you can also purchase with in-game currency. So really all of it is available through in-game means, including your "sub" for patron status. Not entirely sure how much it will all cost me, but my current plan is to level my mage to 65, gathering stuff along the way to sell and see if when I am at max level I have enough plat to buy enough credits to get what I deem necessary to continue playing. If I do, then I'll consider going through the gear treadmill.

[Brasse]

You can always let us know when the Raids are too easy.
RIFT raids are crazy hard and would murder most raiding guilds I've been in for other games.

Some have been significantly dialed back, such as Pagura, Lady Envy and Pillar.

The only one fully nerfed by 50% HP (HITPOINTS, not overall challenge) was Rhen of Fate, because it's the Tier 1 10-man raid that is the introduction to raiding in Nightmare Tide. This was done by design to allow more people to experience the content; the raiding community is often viewed as exclusionary and we'd LIKE more people to have access.

I know we had a number of guilds participating and offering feedback. This resulted in tuning iterations on the fly (over a weekend, no less), and Dev is continuing to take in feedback.
I love this forum (only just started posting but I've been reading for a while), but the official forums are where the Devs are active - simply because they don't have the time to participate elsewhere while working on the game. Take further feedback there if you have it.

There is nothing you cannot buy in game by playing and trading plat for credits. Yep, it takes a long time, but it's possible.
Folks like me have so little time after hours that we expend cash to buy Rex and trade for credits. There are two paths, one end goal.

Wocky, it seems like you have several axes to grind here and I get that you're unhappy. I doubt that we can make the game match all of your desires.

However, we are all working together to do the best we can to serve as many needs as we can.
The game is doing well, and we want to make sure it continues.
So far, so good.
;-)#
Brasse

[Eleccybubb]

You can always let us know when the Raids are too easy.
RIFT raids are crazy hard and would murder most raiding guilds I've been in for other games.

Some have been significantly dialed back, such as Pagura, Lady Envy and Pillar.

The only one fully nerfed by 50% HP (HITPOINTS, not overall challenge) was Rhen of Fate, because it's the Tier 1 10-man raid that is the introduction to raiding in Nightmare Tide. This was done by design to allow more people to experience the content; the raiding community is often viewed as exclusionary and we'd LIKE more people to have access.

I know we had a number of guilds participating and offering feedback. This resulted in tuning iterations on the fly (over a weekend, no less), and Dev is continuing to take in feedback.
I love this forum (only just started posting but I've been reading for a while), but the official forums are where the Devs are active - simply because they don't have the time to participate elsewhere while working on the game. Take further feedback there if you have it.

There is nothing you cannot buy in game by playing and trading plat for credits. Yep, it takes a long time, but it's possible.
Folks like me have so little time after hours that we expend cash to buy Rex and trade for credits. There are two paths, one end goal.

Wocky, it seems like you have several axes to grind here and I get that you're unhappy. I doubt that we can make the game match all of your desires.

However, we are all working together to do the best we can to serve as many needs as we can.
The game is doing well, and we want to make sure it continues.
So far, so good.
;-)#
Brasse

Well we could but any time we are critical on your forums or reddit in any tiny way it gets removed or censored. So well y'know. And I'm sorry but if you don't sort shit out like removing pay to win crap then it ain't seeing a 10 year anniversary. I don't mean this nastily I mean it for the sake of the game. And no don't say it isn't pay to win just because there is an obnoxious grind that is worse than any other game out there.

[Brasse]

"an obnoxious grind that is worse than any other game out there"

Hehe, I have to disagree there. I've been in obnoxious grinds.

The developers have a vested interest in making the game fun and engaging (that's an art form and their passion) as well as successful (that's a living and their future). We will indeed see how successful they are in a few more years time. =)

[Eleccybubb]

"an obnoxious grind that is worse than any other game out there"

Hehe, I have to disagree there. I've been in obnoxious grinds.

The developers have a vested interest in making the game fun and engaging (that's an art form and their passion) as well as successful (that's a living and their future). We will indeed see how successful they are in a few more years time. =)

Well you know an employee would say that so their bosses don't fire them . I'm sorry and again in no personal insult at you but your opinion can be considered biased favoritism towards Trion due to you working with them closely whereas you need to be able to see both sides of the argument. Don't get me wrong Rift has the potential to drag itself back out. Classic and SL were amazing but damn Nightmare Tide just put on the cash cow clothes. I just refuse to believe the game is gaining more players as you say from recent changes and opinions. Like I said on the social/forum aspects reddit posts are being hidden by certain mods who I won't name and the official forums itself are deleting threads that have any criticism even if it's constructive.

[purebalance]

Please, tell me more about how difficult content keeps players engaged, satisfied and subscribed.

Has nothing to do with that as stated above, but please tell me more how bad players like to blame difficult content for sub loss or collapse of a game when in reality there were other reasons(see Cataclysm heroics).

[Deleted]

Well, the one thing Wocky currently leaves out of his side of the srgument is of course that all that stuff you can buy with "cash" is actually bought with credits which you can also purchase with in-game currency. So really all of it is available through in-game means, including your "sub" for patron status. Not entirely sure how much it will all cost me, but my current plan is to level my mage to 65, gathering stuff along the way to sell and see if when I am at max level I have enough plat to buy enough credits to get what I deem necessary to continue playing. If I do, then I'll consider going through the gear treadmill.

You will never ever, even if you pick everything in ur leveling, have enough plat to buy anything if you are lucky, spend 0 during ur leveling and keep everything you might be able to buy a rex to unlock the AH. That slipmatlike lie that you can buy everything with plat is just(as i said) a lie.

- - - Updated - - -

You can always let us know when the Raids are too easy.
RIFT raids are crazy hard and would murder most raiding guilds I've been in for other games.

Then you are terrible at mmos. Rifts raids in NT have been cleared in 1-2 weeks( and thats with the gazilion bugs u release your content btw)
The problem is that you dumbed down so fucking much every single part of the game(without introducing real catch up mechanics) that the moment a random player have to think for more than a second they hit a wall(a wall that can be knocked down if you open your wallet btw)

Its pretty clear to me that gambling with players frustration to make them use their visas is your goal, im not judging but at least be honest.

[WskyDK]

What a shame. Stopped playing a little after Hammnerknell (original) launched. We went shard-first (Perspice before they turned it into a newbie shard) for most of t1 and t2 before our guild died.
I always liked raiding in Rift.

[theWocky]

Classic and SL were amazing but damn Nightmare Tide just put on the cash cow clothes. I just refuse to believe the game is gaining more players as you say from recent changes and opinions. Like I said on the social/forum aspects reddit posts are being hidden by certain mods who I won't name and the official forums itself are deleting threads that have any criticism even if it's constructive.

Probably the same biased, deaf fingers-in-ears wannabe RPG dwarf mentioned below.
She's their boss, after all and condones their every action ~ obviously.

Hehe, I have to disagree there. I've been in obnoxious grinds.

Yeah, it's called Rift without the Patron boost and a stack of store-purchased 160% vials. Even then, it's still bad.

Well, the one thing Wocky currently leaves out of his side of the srgument is of course that all that stuff you can buy with "cash" is actually bought with credits which you can also purchase with in-game currency. So really all of it is available through in-game means, including your "sub" for patron status. Not entirely sure how much it will all cost me, but my current plan is to level my mage to 65, gathering stuff along the way to sell and see if when I am at max level I have enough plat to buy enough credits to get what I deem necessary to continue playing. If I do, then I'll consider going through the gear treadmill.

It won't work. I tried this in a YouTube series called The Rift F2P Experiment - 1 to 65. Zones were empty. Grind was terrible. Stopped at 25ish or so. However, at least you will have an advantage if you own the base SL game because you probably also have a few 160% pots that will help and at least you can use the auction house - New F2P players can't use it without first buying a REX and good luck acquiring plat without use of an Auction House.

You can always let us know when the Raids are too easy. RIFT raids are crazy hard and would murder most raiding guilds I've been in for other games.

There you go, spouting clueless nonsense. What kills the raiding community are the fact that 1. raids are released buggy. 2. There is no gear catchup. 3. Game is not "new player" friendly. Hence, there are no new raiders to draw from. Most of the good raiders have left.

And, once again, you show you don't read.
Every ounce of criticism is seen as "hatred", resulting in forum bans, dismissed until it does turn to frustration, festers resentment, then anger.

Wocky, it seems like you have several axes to grind here and I get that you're unhappy. I doubt that we can make the game match all of your desires.

And who sharpened those axes?

Do you have any idea how many MMO's have I played in my life, that I left due to bad game decisions?
So, why is it that this one MMO company leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth?
It's because not only did the game change for the worse, but the company did too.

Why are so many ex-players so blatantly anti-Trion? Not just Anti-Rift, but anti-Trion?
How do you explain that?
Why do you think no-one, save one lonely Trion apologist bothers with Rift on YouTube?

Fixed this for you:

Trion murders most raiding guilds I've been in

Hey, how about they make a new zone in Rift?
Call it the "Peaks of Despair".

You can build it out of the virtual corpses of the loyal players, you betrayed with your confused payment model, game changes and caused to quit your game in disgust and frustration.

There is nothing you cannot buy in game by playing and trading plat for credits. Yep, it takes a long time, but it's possible.

Just as it's possible to trust a biased Trion CM employee, but probably not a good idea.

There are two paths, one end goal.

And a big sign on one of those paths lit up by the energy of a friggin' dying star saying:
"CASH SHOP" while the other involves giving up your job and social life for two years.

However, we are all working together

No, "we" are not. Trion does their own thing. Good luck with that.

[justinhalfout]

Well, the one thing Wocky currently leaves out of his side of the srgument is of course that all that stuff you can buy with "cash" is actually bought with credits which you can also purchase with in-game currency. So really all of it is available through in-game means, including your "sub" for patron status. Not entirely sure how much it will all cost me, but my current plan is to level my mage to 65, gathering stuff along the way to sell and see if when I am at max level I have enough plat to buy enough credits to get what I deem necessary to continue playing. If I do, then I'll consider going through the gear treadmill.

No disrespect dude but good luck grinding all the plat you need to buy the stuff with credits,specially when considering on the EU at least,Rex is currently going for 4500 Plat and there's only two on the AH.

Sure it's doable,that's not the issue,problem is you'd have to go into no-life mode for a considerable amount of time through grinding all that Plat,or you could,you know...just open your wallet and bypass it all.

[Deleted]

They didn't need to make the content piss easy to make it more accessible to more players,just easing up on the grind a little bit and introducing some catchup mechanics which don't involve spending hundreds in the store would have taken care of it.

It amuses me that the things people hate about WoW, are the things they want in other MMO's and the reason they're dying.

[theWocky]

It amuses me that the things people hate about WoW, are the things they want in other MMO's and the reason they're dying.

Blizzard/Warcraft does not have a payment model that is in identity crisis mode.
It doesn't put gear with stats on the Auction house that makes you instantly ready for the latest tier.
It doesn't rush and release bugged (to the point of unplayable) content just to sell things on a cash store - certainly seems to be an opinion of some ex-players.
It sells cosmetic items.

In spite of how much I hate LFR and LFG,
Blizzard promotes people playing together, not directing them to a cash shop or face an excessive grind

The Garrison thing - I'm in two minds about.

[StrawberryZebra]

You can always let us know when the Raids are too easy.
RIFT raids are crazy hard and would murder most raiding guilds I've been in for other games.

The biggest issue with those raids isn't their difficulty, its how inaccessible they are to most of the playerbase. You can have the greatest raid content of any MMO on the market, but if no one can get in to doing them its not going to matter. I know from personal experience that a significant number of players with ambitions of raiding are kept away by the huge barriers to entry. Raids might as well not even exist at that point.

The current raiding model starves existing guilds of appropriately geared players and robs players of the opportunity to do the most challenging and interesting content in your game. Finding a way to get more people into raids, even if that ultimately involves just adding an automatic tool for it, is in the best interests of both Trion and the players. I would guess that new raid content is where the biggest percentage of the development time and budget is spent, but its content that is probably only ever played by 5% of the total population at the absolute most throughout the entire games lifetime.

It amuses me that the things people hate about WoW, are the things they want in other MMO's and the reason they're dying.

WoW players today don't know how good they have it. In my day we had to all had to walk to UBRS. And it was uphill both ways. Through LAVA!!

In all seriousness though, as much as people berate WoW for making things "easy" what WoW really did was just remove inconvenience for the players.

[Lathais]

You will never ever, even if you pick everything in ur leveling, have enough plat to buy anything if you are lucky, spend 0 during ur leveling and keep everything you might be able to buy a rex to unlock the AH. That slipmatlike lie that you can buy everything with plat is just(as i said) a lie.

Well I already have access to the AH and plenty of other things as I am a returning player and had bought SL when it came out, so a lot of that stuff is unlocked for me. I also already bought the souls with plat before I quit playing a while back, so the only things I really need are the earring slots and PW:W. I have been gathering and selling stuff already as I level, not even halfway from 60-65 yet and am already back up over 1000 plat, despite only having 400 or so when I quit playing. So it is seeming fairly possible at this point. To a new player though, yeah, it's be a bit much. There should be a way for them to spend $50 or so and be caught up, you know, like with most other games. In WoW, when a new expansion comes out, there is usualyl a bundle that includes all other expansions for a pretty good price and buying it has you all caught up.

[Deleted]

Well I already have access to the AH and plenty of other things as I am a returning player and had bought SL when it came out, so a lot of that stuff is unlocked for me. I also already bought the souls with plat before I quit playing a while back, so the only things I really need are the earring slots and PW:W. I have been gathering and selling stuff already as I level, not even halfway from 60-65 yet and am already back up over 1000 plat, despite only having 400 or so when I quit playing. So it is seeming fairly possible at this point. To a new player though, yeah, it's be a bit much. There should be a way for them to spend $50 or so and be caught up, you know, like with most other games. In WoW, when a new expansion comes out, there is usualyl a bundle that includes all other expansions for a pretty good price and buying it has you all caught up.

So you are looking at 15k plat farm to unlock those.Come back whenever you get there.