[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[Hivey]

I'm still leaning towards Doom Winds/Windsong macro for raids. Having that 45sec CD DPS boost should prove great against priority add spawns.

[Saiona]

Boulderfist or rockbiter?

If we are drowning in ms while feral and doom winds are active, does it mean we cap maelstrom and we.have no chcance to dump it?

I had wolves up vs a rare spawn and for about 5 seconds I couldn't dump the maelstrom fast enough. Stormbringer didn't proc for like 10 seconds though that didn't help lol.

[Hivey]

I had wolves up vs a rare spawn and for about 5 seconds I couldn't dump the maelstrom fast enough. Stormbringer didn't proc for like 10 seconds though that didn't help lol.

I guess its that particular unlucky situation where Overcharge shines, offering another nuke option.

[Saiona]

I guess its that particular unlucky situation where Overcharge shines, offering another nuke option.

Yeah I am also lv 101 lol. I imagine later on more of these moments will happen. Overcharge seems pretty neat.

[Zirhark]

Yeah I am also lv 101 lol. I imagine later on more of these moments will happen. Overcharge seems pretty neat.

I really want overcharge to be good, but with the buff to SS tempest has been pushed even further ahead. I still like the boulderfist play style testing last night but I found it hard to take more than 1 MP talent. It felt really nice with a few open GCD's taking Hailstorm. But when I switched to having earthen spike on top of Hailstorm it got a bit too slow for my tastes. I almost never hit LL unless I had wolves or DW up. I can't imagine throwing in a 3rd MP talent at this point, you would have to use hot hands or Windsong at that point.

I think the speed of the spec is back in a good spot with the changes but some of the talents still need tuning balance.

[-aiko-]

If we are drowning in ms while feral and doom winds are active, does it mean we cap maelstrom and we.have no chcance to dump it?

You will cap if you aren't careful but it's not so fast that you can't dump with LL.

[Darleth]

I really want overcharge to be good, but with the buff to SS tempest has been pushed even further ahead. I still like the boulderfist play style testing last night but I found it hard to take more than 1 MP talent. It felt really nice with a few open GCD's taking Hailstorm. But when I switched to having earthen spike on top of Hailstorm it got a bit too slow for my tastes. I almost never hit LL unless I had wolves or DW up. I can't imagine throwing in a 3rd MP talent at this point, you would have to use hot hands or Windsong at that point.

I think the speed of the spec is back in a good spot with the changes but some of the talents still need tuning balance.

SS got rebuffed to where it was before actually. It basically didnt change.
I still think Overcharge needs a ton of extra damage to be better, considering there are so much things buffing Storm Strike in the Doomhammer tree, while there is really only one thing Overcharge gets some benefit from, and thats Doom Vortex. I think it wont ever get to a point, atleast its current version, to be really viable (besides MAYBE in pvp...). Thats just my opinion on it though and I would love to see them buff it to a point where it is a viable option.

Did some testing earlier that day. Gotta say the maelstrom gain feels quite good now. I personally thought it won't be that great, but I was wrong. Quite happy with it, being able to actually react to back to back stormbringer proccs. Windsong feels a bit better now, its still not really useful outside of doom winds though, which still makes it a pretty "meh" kind of choice to have imo. I dont really understand the change in landslide from AP to Agility... wouldn't it result in the exact same AP conversion in the end, which is neither a buff or a nerf? I could be REALLY wrong here because well, I suck at math.

Empowered Stormlash got nerfed... why exactly? Stormlash itself wasn't really that good to begin with, why would they actually nerf it instead of buffing it? Am I missing something here?

Edit: They finally fixxed the maelstrom cost in ascendance form.. should make the talent better I hope.

[Jotaux]

I found the maelstrom generation to be way better this patch. My guild did the first 3 bosses of emerald dream on normal last night. I had boulderfist, AS, tempest, crash lightning and landslide as my talents. I wanted to try out hailstorm but we were short healers and I had to switch to resto after a few pulls.

[mkultra55]

I still think Overcharge needs a ton of extra damage to be better, considering there are so much things buffing Storm Strike in the Doomhammer tree, while there is really only one thing Overcharge gets some benefit from, and thats Doom Vortex. I think it wont ever get to a point, atleast its current version, to be really viable (besides MAYBE in pvp...). Thats just my opinion on it though and I would love to see them buff it to a point where it is a viable option.

...........

I wish Overcharge would also Buff the next Healing Surge as well just like Maelstrom Weapon does currently. Overcharge is basically the old Maelstrom Weapon so it would be nice to see all the current mechanics as an option.

[Imnick]

I wish Overcharge would also Buff the next Healing Surge as well just like Maelstrom Weapon does currently. Overcharge is basically the old Maelstrom Weapon so it would be nice to see all the current mechanics as an option.

Honestly, I would not like this.
I like the purity we mostly have where talents are either one thing or another.
Combining a DPS talent with healing utility in a tier where the other two options are just DPS talents would not feel good.

[Hekili]

Overcharge isn't built to compete with Stormstrike, though. It competes with Lava Lash.

Nothing is built to compete with your Stormstrike.

[nazrakin]

SS got rebuffed to where it was before actually. It basically didnt change.
I still think Overcharge needs a ton of extra damage to be better, considering there are so much things buffing Storm Strike in the Doomhammer tree, while there is really only one thing Overcharge gets some benefit from, and thats Doom Vortex. I think it wont ever get to a point, atleast its current version, to be really viable (besides MAYBE in pvp...). Thats just my opinion on it though and I would love to see them buff it to a point where it is a viable option.

Did some testing earlier that day. Gotta say the maelstrom gain feels quite good now. I personally thought it won't be that great, but I was wrong. Quite happy with it, being able to actually react to back to back stormbringer proccs. Windsong feels a bit better now, its still not really useful outside of doom winds though, which still makes it a pretty "meh" kind of choice to have imo. I dont really understand the change in landslide from AP to Agility... wouldn't it result in the exact same AP conversion in the end, which is neither a buff or a nerf? I could be REALLY wrong here because well, I suck at math.

Empowered Stormlash got nerfed... why exactly? Stormlash itself wasn't really that good to begin with, why would they actually nerf it instead of buffing it? Am I missing something here?

Edit: They finally fixxed the maelstrom cost in ascendance form.. should make the talent better I hope.

I think the key to balancing Overcharge vs tempest is the artifact tree. Right now Raging Storms is as powerful as a Gold Trait while Doom Vortex is as bad as our worst minors. So both getting Raging Storms under control and a modest buff to Doom Vortex should even out that talent tier.

I imagine the AP to Agi change is due to them not actually surfacing Attack Power in the UI anymore.

Dont understand the Stormlash nerf either but it may have some under the hood tweaks that necessitated the adjustment.

[Imnick]

Overcharge isn't built to compete with Stormstrike, though. It competes with Lava Lash.

Nothing is built to compete with your Stormstrike.

Overcharge does actually kind of compete with Stormstrike though, because the talents on that tier are Overcharge, Stormlash, and Tempest.
Tempest increases your number of Stormstrikes over a fight by increasing the effect of Stormbringer, whereas Overcharge gives you a button that consumes as much maelstrom as an unbuffed Stormbringer proc every 9 seconds (while you are still getting stormbringer procs) and produces less damage.

A maelstrom dumping ability that does less damage than Stormstrike, drains a lot of Maelstrom (half of your bar!), and has a cooldown, probably isn't going to win out over the chance to cast an additional 20 MP Stormstrike every time you get a proc.


WRT Overcharge they also need to fix Doom Vortex to only start counting its lifetime down when it hits the target.
Vortexes spawned by Overcharge Lightning Bolt can despawn before reaching a target if used at range :P

[Avikur]

Ok so i'm totally new to Enhancement and have been trying it out on the beta, I've got as far as getting my artifact weapon and picking where I want to start questing, i'm really enjoying it BUT feel super squishy, is it likely something i'm doing wrong or is that just how it is with shamans? what is the best talent setup for questing/solo mobs (so far based on tuning)?

[-aiko-]

While leveling don't be afraid to spend maelstrom on Healing Surge. As for talents, there aren't really too many utility/solo ones. I would take Lightning Surge Totem, then focus on talents that deal/enhance direct damage instead of passive damage. Something like 3 2 1 1 2 2 1, I guess.

[mkultra55]

Honestly, I would not like this.
I like the purity we mostly have where talents are either one thing or another.
Combining a DPS talent with healing utility in a tier where the other two options are just DPS talents would not feel good.

Meh. I think it's fine with the new talent tree designs. Not every Tier is as rigid as it was in WoD. Tier 30 is a Group Heal, Mobility/Damage and Group Utility.

Overcharge needs to compete with Tempest which is already hard seeing how powerful Stormstrike is for Enhance. If they just Buff the damage of Overcharge so it's better than Tempest then it becomes the easy choice. If they add the current MW functionality then it becomes a choice between Damage plus Survival/Utility, Pure Damage and Group Damage. That seems more interesting to me.

[Darleth]

Overcharge isn't built to compete with Stormstrike, though. It competes with Lava Lash.

Nothing is built to compete with your Stormstrike.

Well, if we're going by talents, it kinda does compete with Stormstrike (Tempest) in that case. But I know what you're trying to say.
It should still do more than it currently does imo. How to buff it though, I have no idea besides increasing damage done.
@nazrakin
Makes sense... I didnt think about the UI change actually. I imagined something more about future nerfs or buffs or something.. I was reading too much into it I guess

[Hivey]

How does an Overcharge hit compare with a SS hit? Is LB close enough in damage that in future tiers with more mastery it might hit harder? Bearing in mind it ignores armour too.

[Nitwit]

1. Tempest isn't as strong as it was pre-mastery nerf and pre-(number of hits per windfury proc) nerf.
2. Tempest isn't nearly as strong when you don't have full artifact perks (which will be ~everyone going into Legion)
3. Overcharge is fine in a vacuum, assuming you don't pick Boulderfist. It's worth ~5-6% damage. If Tempest were worth too much more than that (don't know what it's clocking in at right now), then that'd be a problem with Tempest being overpowered.

When Hekili said that Overcharge competes against Lava Lash instead of Stormstrike, what's being referring to is how the talent affects our maelstrom expenditures when compared to the baseline (i.e. no talent). Our Maelstrom expenditures can be thought of as grouped into a simple priority: 1. Stormstrike (cooldown and mastery limited), 2. Talented maelstrom spenders (also cooldown limited, except for Fury of Air), 3. Lava Lash

In other words, Overcharge (talented maelstrom spender) subtracts from what's beneath it (Lava Lash), not what's above it (Stormstrike) unless you play suboptimally. So, what does Overcharge bring to the table? Well, it makes Lightning Bolt hit for about 2.25x Lava Lash with the level 110 PvP premade characters, and it costs 2x Lava Lash in base maelstrom; however (and this is crucial), it does that damage in 1 GCD as opposed to 2 GCDs. In other words, you don't compare LB damage/LB cost to LL damage/LL cost (2.25/2 = 1.125x = shit), you compare LB+RB to 2xLL. In other words, with Overcharge, you get ~3x LL damage in 2 GCDs while spending 42 net maelstrom (60 - 18), while non-Overcharge builds only get 2x LL in 2 GCDs for 60 maelstrom.

In OTHER words, Overcharge can be thought of as a +50% damage and -30% cost buff to a large proportion of your Lava Lash casts. It really is fine the way it is (other than the Boulderfist anti-synergy).

[mkultra55]

..........

In OTHER words, Overcharge can be thought of as a +50% damage and -30% cost buff to a large proportion of your Lava Lash casts. It really is fine the way it is (other than the Boulderfist anti-synergy).

Nice post.

My issue is the double Maelstrom cost of that Overcharged LB as well as the attached CD. Yes it saves you a Global and does more damage than two Lava Lashes but Lava Lash seems more flexible to use in general play. I can choose to squeeze those Lava Lashes in when I need to avoid capping and I'm not tied to a CD. Overcharge may seem better in a sim but in real play I still think I'd go with Tempest and Lava Lash for dumps.

I think Overcharge still needs something more to put it on par with Tempest.