America’s Pacific pivot is sinking

[Deleted]

Djalil, I am hardly the typical "MURICA" citizen of the US. I hesitate at the thought of using force. And unlike most people where I live, I am in full support of causes most would consider quite liberal: LGBT equality, abortion rights, gun control, and so forth.

However, on defense, I am as hawkish as they come. Just because I hesitate at the use of force, doesn't mean I think it must never be used. And to uphold liberal democracy against the typical strongman despots that seem to endlessly recur throughout history, any amount of blood is acceptable.

" The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them."

" The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

----- Thomas Jefferson

Yes, I know he was a slaveholder. Nonetheless, he was considered quite liberal for his time, and struggled to think of a way to peacefully end slavery. He failed, as did many others. That does not prevent him from having wisdom on other subjects.

You're hardly "MURICA"?!
Are you joking me? Want me to go through that post you came up with earlier on?

Dude... how can I put it. It's been 75 years since your governments foreign policies made A single right move. Everywhere you've been, now it's worse.
And that's exactly what your government wants.

Which is why being EXTREMELY critical of your government foreign policies is absolutely understandable, considering they make isis look like a kid in comparison (although I admit, give them 75 years and MAYBE they do as much damage as you have done... or not considering they lack the ability to span across the entire globe).

You know, we always talk about middle east in here. Iran Iraq bladibla.
You know that is but ONE paragraph in that horrendous book of horrors your foreign policies have carved in human blood, yeah? Want me to go through what happened in south America?

So... Yeah, no don't give me that bullshit. You MIGHT not be "MURICA" to "MURICAN" standards, and that's worrying... but you definitely are.

[Crispin]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...trols-with-u-s

It already happened. The Pivot is over.

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said he’s considering buying weapons from Russia and China while also ending joint patrols with U.S. forces in the South China Sea.


In a televised speech Tuesday before military officers in Manila, Duterte said that two countries -- which he didn’t identify -- had agreed to give the Philippines a 25-year soft loan to buy military equipment. Later, he said that Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana and “technical people” in the armed forces would visit China and Russia “and see what’s best.”

On Tuesday, Duterte said the Philippines needs propeller-driven planes that it can use against insurgents and fight terrorists in Mindanao. He said he wanted to buy arms “where they are cheap and where there are no strings attached and it is transparent.”
“I don’t need jets, F-16 -- that’s of no use to us,” Duterte said. “We don’t intend to fight any country.”
Since 1950, the U.S. has accounted for about 75 percent of the Philippines’ arms imports, according to a database from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Russia and China haven’t supplied any weapons in that time, it showed.

So far we've only seen a guy talk, I know the concept is completely lost on that fantasy bubble you live in, but judging people on what they do and not what they say will give you a better idea.

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You're hardly "MURICA"?!
Are you joking me? Want me to go through that post you came up with earlier on?

Dude... how can I put it. It's been 75 years since your governments foreign policies made A single right move. Everywhere you've been, now it's worse.
And that's exactly what your government wants.

Which is why being EXTREMELY critical of your government foreign policies is absolutely understandable, considering they make isis look like a kid in comparison (although I admit, give them 75 years and MAYBE they do as much damage as you have done... or not considering they lack the ability to span across the entire globe).

You know, we always talk about middle east in here. Iran Iraq bladibla.
You know that is but ONE paragraph in that horrendous book of horrors your foreign policies have carved in human blood, yeah? Want me to go through what happened in south America?

So... Yeah, no don't give me that bullshit. You MIGHT not be "MURICA" to "MURICAN" standards, and that's worrying... but you definitely are.

75 years? Give me a fucking break.

[Ulmita]

It isn't their pivot that is sinking. It is that the world started to become multi polar. Pax Americana is at its very end.

[Deleted]

So far we've only seen a guy talk, I know the concept is completely lost on that fantasy bubble you live in, but judging people on what they do and not what they say will give you a better idea.

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75 years? Give me a fucking break.

Coup in Iran was in 53, that makes it 63 years to do today I think.
Let's use that as a pinpoint.

You're right, 63 years. Does it make it any better?

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Now, if you want to answer Berengil, keep in mind I SPECIFICALLY said "your government's foreign policies".
Not "the US". The SPECIFIC branch of your government that dictates foreign policies based on dreams of grandeur belonging to ages past.

[Crispin]

Coup in Iran was in 53, that makes it 63 years to do today I think.
Let's use that as a pinpoint.

You're right, 63 years. Does it make it any better?

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Now, if you want to answer Berengil, keep in mind I SPECIFICALLY said "your government's foreign policies".
Not "the US". The SPECIFIC branch of your government that dictates foreign policies based on dreams of grandeur belonging to ages past.

Are you pro brexit? The current US goverment clearly was not and tried to influence the outcome.

[Deleted]

Are you pro brexit? The current US goverment clearly was not and tried to influence the outcome.

What... has that to do with like... anything I said?

[Crispin]

What... has that to do with like... anything I said?

It's been 75 years since your governments foreign policies made A single right move.

Ofcourse you had to adjust your stupid statement right away, for the US, Brexit is foreign policy and their stance on it was clear, or do I have to elaborate? are we now only counting countries they invade? what's the Djalil specific criteria for measuring US foreign policy?

[Deleted]

Ofcourse you had to adjust your stupid statement right away, for the US, Brexit is foreign policy and their stance on it was clear, or do I have to elaborate? are we now only counting countries they invade? what's the Djalil specific criteria for measuring US foreign policy?

Brexit is.... US foreign policy?

.....?

[Crispin]

Brexit is.... US foreign policy?

.....?

Not surprised that you'd rather play dumb than realise how fucked up your statement was.

[Deleted]

Not surprised that you'd rather play dumb than realise how fucked up your statement was.

Puzzling individual you are Crispin. Puzzling individual.

[Crispin]

Puzzling individual you are Crispin. Puzzling individual.

Falling back on odd personal comments when you can't argue for you nonsense again? I know you'd rather judge US foreign policy on who they invade, who they sell weapons to etc. etc. unfortunately for your narrative, US foreign policy goes far beyond that, whether you can't comprehend it or choose to ignore it for the sake of bashing US foreign policy on a simple background is up to you.

I'd love to see you explain how the US President commenting very openly on the Brexit, is not considered US foreign policy, good luck.

[Deleted]

Falling back on odd personal comments when you can't argue for you nonsense again? I know you'd rather judge US foreign policy on who they invade, who they sell weapons to etc. etc. unfortunately for your narrative, US foreign policy goes far beyond that, whether you can't comprehend it or choose to ignore it for the sake of bashing US foreign policy on a simple background is up to you.

I want EVERYONE to read this page.
Please people read this exchange above.

This....
This is Crispin.

Now please, unless you have anything else to say...

[Crispin]

I want EVERYONE to read this page.
Please people read this exchange above.

This....
This is Crispin.

Now please, unless you have anything else to say...

As I thought, have fun acting like a child instead of providing any actual arguments.

[Deleted]

Yeah hopefully Berengil will provide something a bit more meaningful.

[Dendrek]

A "leader" who is poised to be the next great dictator of a 3rd world country doesn't like the US? Let me show you my sad face.

[Deleted]

That duderte guy is nuts. That for sure.
Having said that, as usual, there's no good guys bad guys. He was elected for a reason.
People voted him for a reason. At least that is what that Filipino family I know told me
I know the country's very hard to manage.

[caervek]

Meh, the guy seems to be doing a good job taking on the drug cartels in his country, who cares if he starts buying guns from Russia (except US gun-makers obviously).

[Stop Pretending]

they are criminals and criminals especially violent ones need to be made examples of. and yes they are doing an excellent job. mass executions of cartel members is an excellent idea. i am a big supporter of extrajudical killings for that reason. cartels must know that if they continue their violent ways they will be executed and buried in a shallow grave where their kind belongs. they must be hunted like the animals they are.

Appatently reading comprehension isn't your thing.

[Judgedredd]

they are criminals and criminals especially violent ones need to be made examples of. and yes they are doing an excellent job. mass executions of cartel members is an excellent idea. i am a big supporter of extrajudical killings for that reason. cartels must know that if they continue their violent ways they will be executed and buried in a shallow grave where their kind belongs. they must be hunted like the animals they are.

only that they won't be buried in shallow graves. duterte specifically said he was going to fatten the fish in Manila Bay with their corpses. It is rumoured that some have even been fed to crocodiles (alive or dead I have no idea, but I'm guessing the former).

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Appatently reading comprehension isn't your thing.

Says the one who can't spell apparently, apparently.

[Stop Pretending]

only that they won't be buried in shallow graves. duterte specifically said he was going to fatten the fish in Manila Bay with their corpses. It is rumoured that some have even been fed to crocodiles (alive or dead I have no idea, but I'm guessing the former).

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Says the one who can't spell apparently, apparently.

Simple typo, it's 4 a.m. and I'm playing the new Destiny expansion as I type this, on my phone. You getting into any debate about grammar is laughable at best though. No capitalization, apparently you're unaware commas exist.