[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[elsus]

I had a question about using voidform, should I use it as soon as its up or wait until I can match it with a similar length VF. After looking at some of the top logs I've seen people hold out of vVF for 30-40 secs. Is it recommended to only pop back into voidform if you can get 30+ stacks waiting for torrent or should you pop VF as often as you can?

[Djriff]

Thanks. gonna try this.
You think i should go even higher crit? can replace 850 Swarming Plaguehive for 840 int/crit trink or with 865 Wriggling Sinew for 37% crit 22% haste

If you have a DSB or oakheart's I'd use that, as for those 2 trinkets off the top of my head I think plaguehive procs more than sinew does so you'll probably get more damage out of it, plus haste doesn't hurt.

I had a question about using voidform, should I use it as soon as its up or wait until I can match it with a similar length VF. After looking at some of the top logs I've seen people hold out of vVF for 30-40 secs. Is it recommended to only pop back into voidform if you can get 30+ stacks waiting for torrent or should you pop VF as often as you can?

Pop VF as often as possible. What logs are you seeing that people are sitting outside of it for 30-40 seconds? That sounds fishy.

[marshly]

Should we be holding on SW until we need it for insanity generation in S2M? Isn't it a better filler for Mind Flay provided you're trying to stay at one stack of sw:d?

edit: based on one comment djriff posted about someones logs

[Djriff]

Should we be holding on SW until we need it for insanity generation in S2M? Isn't it a better filler for Mind Flay provided you're trying to stay at one stack of sw:d?

Hold it until you need it. Burning even 1 charge early on when you don't need it can screw you over later when you need to SW: D -> VB -> MB -> VB -> SW: D

[marshly]

Hmph never knew lol, is it a dps loss? cause for a lot of fights you're popping s2m post 35% anyway, what about when you're in early vf stacks?

[Ocedic]

Hmph never knew lol, is it a dps loss? cause for a lot of fights you're popping s2m post 35% anyway, what about when you're in early vf stacks?

Depends on your raid's overall DPS. As your raid's gear gets better you will have to pop it earlier and earlier to be optimal. But on 'new' content which I suppose is what's relevant for the discussion, and that usually does happen at execute range.

[MissAnonymous]

Thanks for the tips, Djriff! Your play-by-play showed me at least half a dozen things I've been doing wrong, so I'm feeling a lot better now that I have a direction of things that I can actually change other than: Practice not being bad and get more haste.

We hit execute once on mythic Nythendra - last pull of the night (12% and nobody could stay for another pull, of course - isn't that how it always happens?) - but I was kinda, sorta, tanking the floor at the time, so... Yeah. I wasn't able to really get much of a groove for the fight.

So for clarification on StM rotation "opening":

Drop out of Voidform -> StM -> Normal Outside of Voidfrom Rotation -> Void Explosion -> Refresh DoTs/Filler -> VB -> VTorrent -> VB -> Dispersion -> VB -> Normal Voidform Rotation

Is that correct? That seems like a long time to go with a MB.

[Djriff]

yup that's correct, ideally you'll replace that first cast of VF with MB, if not, it's not worth delaying Vtor of VB for.

[Deleted]

yup that's correct, ideally you'll replace that first cast of VF with MB, if not, it's not worth delaying Vtor of VB for.

Hmmm Djriff one question... is it really a bit gain using dispersion right into vf during s2m?

[Djriff]

Ideally you want to use it after the VB right after Vtor. It shaves 6 seconds of Vtor CD + you'll have it up again if you need it to reach 3rd Vtor.

[elsus]

Just got the legendary belt and had a few questions. Should i go AS or SI? Ive seen quite a bit of back and forth on both. Also, do you change your stat priorities at all with it if you do go SI?

[Deleted]

Just got the legendary belt and had a few questions. Should i go AS or SI? Ive seen quite a bit of back and forth on both. Also, do you change your stat priorities at all with it if you do go SI?

Afaik SI is usually the talent to go with if you have the belt but AS becomes viable with like 2-3+ targets and stat priorities doesn't really change with the belt.

[Kilee25]

It would be almost impossible for the stat priorities not to change. Last I checked SI and the belt aren't simming properly in simc. The last bit of napkin TC I saw speculated that SI, with or without the belt, is generally a dps loss. So when people say that the "stats don't change," what they usually really mean is that it's not worth building a new gearset around, and it's impractical to figure out what the stats would be anyway.

What might be more likely is that:

1. As stated, AS takes back over in a multitarget situation.
2. The stat weights don't change significantly enough to justify the hassle of building a second gearset. Or perhaps the change is small enough that there is no practical difference.
3. S2M is so overwhelmingly important that AS becomes mandatory in order to reach the 3rd VT, so basically any other talent gets rendered useless.

My point still remains - the stat weights are definitely different. If it hasn't been researched by now it's because someone decided it's not worth the effort. (And they might be right.)

[Kaesebrezen]

Last I checked SI and the belt aren't simming properly in simc.

Belt was fixed yesterday in Simc.

[Deleted]

What do you guys think are the stats weight for mythic+ running LoTV Void ray and San Layn? Think its worth losing haste to gain crit and few more itemlevels?

[Djriff]

Someone pointed out a few pages back that AS vs SI with the belt, AS will win. Some people who have the belt have reported more DPS with AS rather than SI even on single target fights. Additionally You're more likely to get a longer StM with AS than SI, so AS still trumps. As for stat priority changing, unless you're hitting 3rd vtor and stacking mastery while maintaining 20-25% crit, priority is still Haste >> Crit > Mastery > Vers > Int.

[davesignal]

I must be in some weird gearing warp bubble, because Simcraft always shows that the set I constructed with LoTV weights (~26% crit, 26% haste) does more damage with STM than the set I constructed with the actual STM weights (24% crit, 35% haste, much lower item level).

[Djriff]

SiMC doesn't handle StM too well. If an actor dies with StM the time just goes on forever. So you have to split any StM sim into 2 sims, 1 with just an StM duration, and 1 with no 100 talent. That's how the new stat weights were constructed.

[Hendo741]

So, a rotation question came up yesterday regarding H2P guide and the rotation they have listed. H2P says it should be:

VB>MB>filler>VB>filler>filler

Until 130% haste.

I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around this for a few reasons. On the first filler after MB, if I do even a tick of flay I incur a gcd that ends up delaying the next VB, and the second filler x2 blow my mind because after a full duration flay my VB is off CD.

My rotation looks like this:

VB>MB>(small delay)VB>filler>repeat.

Now against a dummy very early in the rotation I can OCCASIONALLY get the first filler in without gcd, but in raid it never seems to work.

For reference raid buffed I sit at 36.5% haste or so. Anyone have any insight as to the reasoning behind H2P guide rotation? I was always under the impression that you never delay a VB in VF.

[Djriff]

You don't want to delay VB in combat, but it sounds like you have a lot some latency issues. I use that rotation just fine with 35% base haste. Once I get around 70% I can drop the 3rd filler and just go VB>MB>Filler>VB>Filler.