crucible is gonna be a nightmare for raid leaders

[Doctor Funkenstein]

i mean what was it 4 years ago they came out to speak against this very thing in their wod previews, do they forget that quickly?

You act like their stupidity and inability to remember their own shitty excuses is a new thing.

Do you know why they said they put a level requirement on the old portal to Outland? Hint: It shouldn't have been there a few months (weeks really) after BC launched.

[Tradu]

Wrong. No relic trait is worth more than 6 ilevels.

You're doing it wrong.

Yeah, you're completely wrong or just happen to play a caster where that is almost universally true. For melees it goes way beyond 6 ilevels in some cases(and I'm pretty sure every melee has at least 1 trait that's in the 6ish ilevel area)

[Valette]

Wrong. No relic trait is worth more than 6 ilevels.

You're doing it wrong.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about then. Unless of course you're trying to claim that all the theorycrafters for shadow priest is doing it wrong.

Source for you, which you probably wont bother reading, so I'll make it simple for you.6 Weapon ilevels give a percentage increase of 2.52% for the gear template they used. While Torment the weak gives a 2.35%. As I said, nearly 6ilevel of value
https://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=10503

[Tradu]

It can only be 66% if only one t2 trait and one t3 traits were random. The NLC makes it so each relic has a random chance at 5 extra traits. You get to pick two of those 5. You pick 66% of the traits on your relic. 84% of those traits are randomly generated.

So basically even more traits are random than using my logic, amazing.

[Onikaroshi]

Yeah, how great that a system gets added that negatively affects a minority of the playerbase while making basically no difference for the rest of the playerbase. It could just not exist and the game would be better for it. Legion already has absurd amounts of RNG to keep you "progressing endlessly", Crucible was not necessary on top of that.

I quite enjoy, you don't speak for everyone. Everyone in my guild thinks it's a good idea, only the min/maxers really care and we'll probably see another annoying whine post from Exorsus after Antorus is done, but who cares, that's less than 1% of the player base, the rest of us are enjoying it.

[Emerald Archer]

Wrong. No relic trait is worth more than 6 ilevels.

You're doing it wrong.

There are definitely relic traits worth over 6ilvls, unless you mean the t2 row only?

Also, DKP isn't run by all the top guilds. Loot is passed out with progression in mind. So favouring dps, and bigger upgrades, better players/specs etc.

[shaunika123]

I'm sorry but you're saying you're a member of a serious guild but happened not to be available ? Please, it's either a serious guild or it isn't.

Players are expected to have 100% attendance.

I'm sure youve never in your life missed a single raid

[tikcol]

I'm sure youve never in your life missed a single raid

Not while I was a member of a serious guild.

[BananaHandsB]

Even better, as a healer you can get dps only "talents" in your relic tree and as a dps, you can get healer only "talents". This system is pure garbage, idk how it made it to live.

[Emerald Archer]

Even better, as a healer you can get dps only "talents" in your relic tree and as a dps, you can get healer only "talents". This system is pure garbage, idk how it made it to live.

There aren't dps only or healer only talents though? There are "talents" that dps and talents that heal. Afaik.

Unless you're saying that the dps traits literally don't work for healers, and healing ones don't work for dps?

[Tradu]

There aren't dps only or healer only talents though? There are "talents" that dps and talents that heal. Afaik.

Unless you're saying that the dps traits literally don't work for healers, and healing ones don't work for dps?

It is possible to get traits that only do damage or only do healing, which is shitty for the "opposite" role. There's 1 that only heals and 1 that only absorbs, and 6(iirc) that only do damage(in different ways)

[Emerald Archer]

It is possible to get traits that only do damage or only do healing, which is shitty for the "opposite" role. There's 1 that only heals and 1 that only absorbs, and 6(iirc) that only do damage(in different ways)

Ofc there is ones that only heal or only do damage, but that doesn't mean they're only FOR healers or only FOR dps,

Dps have traits that are defensive or healing on their weapon, it doesn't all need to be damage.

But I can see how there could be annoyance, as it adds more rng. But they can't just turn that off, they haven't made enough healing traits for that. Healers would have much less options than dps, and then you have to make a bunch of tanking ones.

[Tradu]

Ofc there is ones that only heal or only do damage, but that doesn't mean they're only FOR healers or only FOR dps,

Dps have traits that are defensive or healing on their weapon, it doesn't all need to be damage.

But I can see how there could be annoyance, as it adds more rng. But they can't just turn that off, they haven't made enough healing traits for that. Healers would have much less options than dps, and then you have to make a bunch of tanking ones.

Having those traits heavily devalues the Crucible path they're in, which is silly. It's bad enough that you're only guaranteed 1 "throughput" trait in the final tier(which includes some absolute joke traits that are barely even DPS increases). All traits should just do both, like the majority already do, having single-role ones is silly.

[shaunika123]

Not while I was a member of a serious guild.

I'd wager even sco would miss a raid if his grandfather died so either you havent had a problem worth missing a raid for (lucky you)
or you're talking out of your ass

[tikcol]

I'd wager even sco would miss a raid if his grandfather died so either you havent had a problem worth missing a raid for (lucky you)
or you're talking out of your ass

1st - My grandfather is alive

2nd - People don't talk out of their anuses

[shaunika123]

1st - My grandfather is alive

yeah that basically was my point

[Trend]

why couldnt a potential 4-10% damage increase affect me?

<snip>

it's also not 30k dps

a fully completed crucible will be like 100-150k dps difference from the worst to best possible outcomes

What spec do you play? What sims can you point to that back up this claim?

I'm going to call bullshit. I think you are greatly exaggerating the impact.

There is another thing you are logically wrong about: there is not a realistic scenario where player A has the best relics possible and player B has the worst relics possible. Relics within the same ilvl range get melted all the time, so if player B has shit relics, he will continue to get chance after chance for upgrades. Past this week (some ppl may be stuck with some pretty bad luck for the short-term with the crucible having just opened) nobody who is raiding is going to be rocking the worst relics possible. Even this week it is pretty much impossible. Why would someone even have a relic with a bad primary trait socketed in the first place? The real comparison is between the best and middle of the pack. I do not believe that difference is any greater than have the RNG gear drop differences ever been in the past.

[Tradu]

What spec do you play? What sims can you point to that back up this claim?

I'm going to call bullshit. I think you are greatly exaggerating the impact.

There is another thing you are logically wrong about: there is not a realistic scenario where player A has the best relics possible and player B has the worst relics possible. Relics within the same ilvl range get melted all the time, so if player B has shit relics, he will continue to get chance after chance for upgrades. Past this week (some ppl may be stuck with some pretty bad luck for the short-term with the crucible having just opened) nobody who is raiding is going to be rocking the worst relics possible. Even this week it is pretty much impossible. Why would someone even have a relic with a bad primary trait socketed in the first place? The real comparison is between the best and middle of the pack. I do not believe that difference is any greater than have the RNG gear drop differences ever been in the past.

It's greater than before the patch, because before the patch you got your BiS relic and it was the best(ignoring titanforging crap), end of story. Now it's potentially not the best trait.

[Deleted]

So, if I understand correctly: the trait that is on a relic to put in your weapon is very likely NOT the trait that it will have in the Crucible? x_x

The relic trait is never changed. However, traits in the Crucible changes randomly. You can have 3 identical relics and it might pop 3 totally different sets of Crucible traits. But you won't know until you preview the individual relics. Once you do, they are bound to you and any trade timer is removed.

From the Wowhead guide

After your first tier, you have two options, one random Void trait to the left, or one random Light trait to the right. As you can see in the UI, your tier 2 choices impact which tier 3 traits you can pick, so keep that in mind when choosing.
You cannot change the path of a relic after selecting it. The only way is to replace it with a different relic, which creates a new random tree of traits.
For the final tier, there are three options of traits present on relics normally. Those options are random, but can't be the same trait given by the relic. Also they aren't limited to traits that give throughput, they can be utility traits, as long as they can appear in relics.

[Alvito]

There is a preview function in the NLC.

Which binds it to you. Each relics different shadow/light and abilities are all generated when you put it in the NLC and at that point are stuck that way and bound to you.