People actually want 'World of Wacraft' to relaunch

[Icechaosss]

And yet it grew exponentially through Wrath to 12 million players without a single period of sub decline. NONE.

WoD and Legion lost more than half the subs in the first 3 months each.

Classic WILL outperform BfA by far. Because many of those 12 million will return for Classic alone.

So here's the issue with that argument. Today is not over a decade ago. I fully agree that Vanilla will do well, but only time will tell on that.

But if you think that Classic was just outright "better" because of sales, you need to wake up. Vanilla was a breath of fresh air back in those days. Just like all things, Vanilla will have a peak, and will have a decline. It will not be a constant 12 million people over 10 years like some people may think.

If it does that well? Fantastic, I would be happy to eat my words. But treating Vanilla like it's God's gift to current day gaming isn't doing it any favors. And both sides of this "Vanilla Civil War" are just going to hurt Vanilla rather than help its cause.

[Maudib]

If it does that well? Fantastic, I would be happy to eat my words. But treating Vanilla like it's God's gift to current day gaming isn't doing it any favors. And both sides of this "Vanilla Civil War" are just going to hurt Vanilla rather than help its cause.

The Classic Train is gaining steam... either get on board, or get run over by it. There is no "war" just people who cannot wait to play it, and people who are scared because they are going to be left behind. Current WoW IS the "old WoW"... the tired out, out of creativity and passion version that people desperately want to get away from.

"Old Vanilla" is the NEW WoW again... partly because some of the existing base never played it... and partly because people yearn for a rewarding, fresh experience.

And yes it IS fresh... been playing it on private for some time now and it is SO much more fun than live. I mean, no comparison because of how much I'd rather play it than live.

[Arrowstormen]

It's like the industrial revolution in reverse. the Romantic Experiment Anno 2017.

[Faroth]

From all the discussions circulating around I am starting to get the vibe (of course, I might be wrong) that people actually want Vanilla, be it with or without any QoL changes.

On top of that they want TBC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, WoD, Legion... released in order. A full circle perhaps?

It is beginning to strike me as a misguided nostalgia as to what has been playing with the people we did back, through all these expansions?
People just want to experience it anew it seems.

EverQuest actually did this with Progression Servers. Eventually, players did enough stuff to trigger the first expansion's launch and they played through that as well. I forget how many people had to clear things to trigger each release.

Still, it had its own small dedicated playerbase as well. Some want that. I think I've seen a few note they'd like Progression Servers that go from Classic to WotLK and stop there.

[Thrif]

Seriously need mods to close all threads like these, 90% of the threads are about this and they're just wrong.

No the nostalgia isn't misguided, private servers show this.

Exactly. Before it was "it will never happen, get over it," now it's "you are getting it but you still don't actually want it you're just misguided," despite the fact that private servers clearly shows this isn't the case.

Some people just can't handle things like... facts, and being wrong. So very wrong.

[Arrowstormen]

EverQuest actually did this with Progression Servers. Eventually, players did enough stuff to trigger the first expansion's launch and they played through that as well. I forget how many people had to clear things to trigger each release.

Still, it had its own small dedicated playerbase as well. Some want that. I think I've seen a few note they'd like Progression Servers that go from Classic to WotLK and stop there.

Some, but people are obviously going to argue about that. WoW has moved closer and closer to a mechanically sound game and farther and farther away from an immersive fantasy in every expansion and patch, and where on the spectrum people want to be is going to vary wildly. Some might want it to go to WotLK, but others will probably want just Classic WoW, and others will want Cataclysm, MoP, etc.

I wonder if the Classic Cult have tried DnD or another pen-and-paper RPG.

[Rupenbritz]

Some, but people are obviously going to argue about that. WoW has moved closer and closer to a mechanically sound game and farther and farther away from an immersive fantasy in every expansion and patch, and where on the spectrum people want to be is going to vary wildly. Some might want it to go to WotLK, but others will probably want just Classic WoW, and others will want Cataclysm, MoP, etc.

I wonder if the Classic Cult have tried DnD or another pen-and-paper RPG.

I think its fair to assume one thing at a time.

ClassicServer.Initiate();
if (ClassicServer.Sucess) {
TBCServer.Vote();
}

Dont know why people are already talking expansions..

[Icechaosss]

The Classic Train is gaining steam... either get on board, or get run over by it. There is no "war" just people who cannot wait to play it, and people who are scared because they are going to be left behind. Current WoW IS the "old WoW"... the tired out, out of creativity and passion version that people desperately want to get away from.

"Old Vanilla" is the NEW WoW again... partly because some of the existing base never played it... and partly because people yearn for a rewarding, fresh experience.

And yes it IS fresh... been playing it on private for some time now and it is SO much more fun than live. I mean, no comparison because of how much I'd rather play it than live.

That's fantastic that you enjoy it. But you need to come to the realization that you're giving into the hype. Do I think Classic will fail? Yeah. I do. Do I hope it doesn't?
Bet your ass I hope so. You give no actual facts, just simply your assumptions and feelings on the matter, so calling an entire group of people with valid concerns and opinions as "scared" is a far-cry from the truth.

Don't mistake me, I didn't play Vanilla properly. I was 10 when it was released. But I want to experience it, and perhaps even TBC if this does well enough. I'm excited as anyone else.

But people like you and many others who "Know" this will garner a ridiculous amount of support need to chill. It may, or it may not. Let people have their opinions.

[Maudib]

That was probably the weakest response you could possibly give. I say your community is toxic and annoying and you respond with "Well at least we have one!"

Uhhhh....

You are probably right... I should have pointed out how guilds are dead, friends lists are dead, grouping with people to take down an elite is dead, professions are dead, even with CRZ zones are dead.

But hey... the vanilla community is toxic? lol. Once the people who are from live stop trolling, the vanilla community will thrive and be THE place to enjoy the WoW experience that it was intended to be.

- - - Updated - - -

But people like you and many others who "Know" this will garner a ridiculous amount of support need to chill. It may, or it may not. Let people have their opinions.

Why do I have to chill again? What harm does my opinion cause anyone who feels differently? It may hurt peoples feelings, but then again... why are people bringing their feelings to an online forum?

I truly think it will smash current WoW... you can continue to grind AP.. or roll a brand new toon, on a brand new server, with a fresh economy, a feeling of participating in something great. That is how most everyone felt when a new vanilla server launched a few months ago.

It was glorious. When was the last time you felt glorious in WoW? Was it when you got your 43rd point in your artifact weapon?

Your 9th legendary?

Oh, I know... when you maxed out your tailoring at 800?

So many opportunities in live to feel "glorious" huh?

[Lionhearte0]

And for free

What's funny about this "argument" is that anyone playing WoW Vanilla are only playing it on a PC, and if you have a PC you can pirate nearly any PC game, for Free. Yet.. They somehow want to play Vanilla, even though it's supposedly shitty, but "ITS FREE LUL SO IMA PLAY"

Yeah, I have some ice to sell you.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Say that to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS who the past 7 years has been playing on private vanilla servers purely out of love of the old game.

Classic will be a HUGE success.

Hundreds of Thousands is not impressive, unfortunately. It will be a huge success because new people will come to it, but the people on private servers are not a representative sample. There has never been 100k on one server, many of those who are on one server only play it because its free, and many who play also still play Legion like myself.

I expect a big boom when its released, but please stop making things up to try to make Classic seem like its more wanted than it is. The realms themselves will be the biggest issue as private servers only feel so crowded because EU, NA, and Asia all play together on them.

[Pull My Finger]

Seriously need mods to close all threads like these, 90% of the threads are about this and they're just wrong.

No the nostalgia isn't misguided, private servers show this.

Private servers show that nostalgia and freeload are powerful impulses.

[Icechaosss]

You are probably right... I should have pointed out how guilds are dead, friends lists are dead, grouping with people to take down an elite is dead, professions are dead, even with CRZ zones are dead.

But hey... the vanilla community is toxic? lol. Once the people who are from live stop trolling, the vanilla community will thrive and be THE place to enjoy the WoW experience that it was intended to be.

- - - Updated - - -



Why do I have to chill again? What harm does my opinion cause anyone who feels differently? It may hurt peoples feelings, but then again... why are people bringing their feelings to an online forum?

I truly think it will smash current WoW... you can continue to grind AP.. or roll a brand new toon, on a brand new server, with a fresh economy, a feeling of participating in something great. That is how most everyone felt when a new vanilla server launched a few months ago.

It was glorious. When was the last time you felt glorious in WoW? Was it when you got your 43rd point in your artifact weapon?

Your 9th legendary?

Oh, I know... when you maxed out your tailoring at 800?

So many opportunities in live to feel "glorious" huh?

I mean, I can respond with demeaning things you do in Vanilla as well to sound "smart" like:

1. Why don't you enjoy spending 4 months leveling a class you can literally only play 1 spec of?
2. Why don't you enjoy being a Warlock and can't use your dots because you'll screw the debuffs and you need to keep buffing the mages?
3. Why don't you go enjoy the 1 tank class viable for progression in Vanilla?

See? Doesn't make your point any stronger, you just sound like a child. I never said I enjoyed Legion in its current form, but you can continue to put words in my mouth to make yourself seem like you know exactly what's going to happen in Vanilla, and my stances on WoW's current situation.

I'm going to play Vanilla, and I'm most likely going to enjoy it just like everyone else. But you are literally the definition of what people hate in Vanilla purists. Annoying and egotistical to the point of irritation.

[Dergiab]

Lawl what? If they dont want stupid design choices then blizzard would have to redo all the non-viable class specs and talent trees.

In Vanilla you had Prot and Arms Warriors, Holy Paladins, Holy Priests, Resto Druids, Resto Shamans, Rogues (usually hybrid spec), Hunters (again just a hybrid), Frost or Fire Mage, both of whom went deep into arcane, Destro warlock because debuff limit made affliction bad.

Any other spec was in essence, useless in comparison. The game was a shit show with usually only 2-3 viable builds per class with very slight variations here and there. I loved it all the same, but class balance is not something Vanilla WoW was known for, hell... Raiders straight up oneshotted people in PvP, as in, one single attack skill. So much fun....

I reckon Vanilla will be fine for awhile, but if you think there wont be complaints about class balance after a few months, you're delusional. Simply due to human nature there will be.

You don't know your history do you?

Before patch 1.7, Survival Hunters 31 point talent were a melee bleed that did less damage than a lower rank Serpent sting. It was useless in any situation and got changed to Wyvern sting, in vanilla patch 1.7.

Do you really want to subject Hunters to this unbalancad shit ( and to repeat, were fixed in vanilla) for 6+ months? There are lot of other useless stuff that got fixed in Vanillabut this is a prime example.

[Fixxit the Gnome]

I'm going to level up a character just for the nostalgia, maybe run Stratholme and LBRS a few times, and then continue with my progression in BfA.

[Maudib]

I mean, I can respond with demeaning things you do in Vanilla as well to sound "smart" like:

1. Why don't you enjoy spending 4 months leveling a class you can literally only play 1 spec of?
2. Why don't you enjoy being a Warlock and can't use your dots because you'll screw the debuffs and you need to keep buffing the mages?
3. Why don't you go enjoy the 1 tank class viable for progression in Vanilla?

See? Doesn't make your point any stronger, you just sound like a child. I never said I enjoyed Legion in its current form, but you can continue to put words in my mouth to make yourself seem like you know exactly what's going to happen in Vanilla, and my stances on WoW's current situation.

I'm going to play Vanilla, and I'm most likely going to enjoy it just like everyone else. But you are literally the definition of what people hate in Vanilla purists. Annoying and egotistical to the point of irritation.

But I DO enjoy those things. In vanilla leveling IS a large part of the game.. I'm glad it takes time to level. So Warlocks were a support class... there have been plenty of instances since where they were top DPS, and level easy as hell because they have a tank pet. (tradeoffs) Warrior tanks were a thing... their time to shine. Again, the other classes could run other specs when necessary. The whole concept of having offset gear sets was a thing. And fun. It gave you something to work on.

I think I am being clear, not facetious. I think playing vanilla is GLORIOUS. But you admitted Legion was not. And yet, it seems you must find a way to demean my experience in order to bring it down to your disappointment level. I hate to disappoint you further but the things you listed are not what makes vanilla bad... it's what makes it GOOD!

[Icechaosss]

But I DO enjoy those things. In vanilla leveling IS a large part of the game.. I'm glad it takes time to level. So Warlocks were a support class... there have been plenty of instances since where they were top DPS, and level easy as hell because they have a tank pet. (tradeoffs) Warrior tanks were a thing... their time to shine. Again, the other classes could run other specs when necessary. The whole concept of having offset gear sets was a thing. And fun. It gave you something to work on.

I think I am being clear, not facetious. I think playing vanilla is GLORIOUS. But you admitted Legion was not. And yet, it seems you must find a way to demean my experience in order to bring it down to your disappointment level. I hate to disappoint you further but the things you listed are not what makes vanilla bad... it's what makes it GOOD!

Wanna let me know where I said Legion wasn't good my dude? I literally said "I never said I enjoyed Legion in its current form" but I never said I didn't enjoy it either. Honestly, I can speak for myself, thanks.

And that's fine you enjoy those things. Wanna know something? I enjoy getting legendaries, I enjoy the M+ system and I enjoy the leveling experience, and I have no desire to "Grind AP" since I'm no longer a hardcore raider. Legion, in my opinion, is fun. And I enjoyed it very much.

So no. I'm disappointed by Legion. At all actually. I quite enjoyed most aspects of it. Do I think it's perfect? Nope. Maybe you think Vanilla is perfect, but I'm not gonna put words in your mouth.

You enjoy things, and I enjoy others. Grow up my boy. My comments about the "bad" in Vanilla was literally just showing that you look like a child for mocking others for enjoying other things. I'm not here to debate Classic vs. Current, because that has been, and will be debated until the end of Blizzard Entertainment.

[Maudib]

Wanna let me know where I said Legion wasn't good my dude? I literally said "I never said I enjoyed Legion in its current form" but I never said I didn't enjoy it either. Honestly, I can speak for myself, thanks.

I asked: "When was the last time you felt glorious in WoW?"

You responded: "I never said I enjoyed Legion in its current form"

I fully respect your ability to speak for yourself.

[Tart]

No, Legion caters to the new target audience. The only people who stick around on classic will be a bunch of 30+ year old men. Most people don't like sitting behing their computer screen all day anymore. I am pretty sure you are trolling judging by your responses though.

And vanilla caters to the old target audience. The only people that stick around on BfA will be a bunch of four eyed spotty spenks. Most people are not most people and im pretty sure you are just well rattled at the fact vanilla servers are coming back xxx

[Evangeliste]

You have no idea how popular the vanilla servers are

Sure they were, but private servers also probably didn't escalate to millions of subs like Vanilla actually did. Blizzard own the franchise, that will have sway especially if a subscription is involved - a sub means it will be tinkered and kept to a near spotless maintenance and service. And the sub business model works if it's most likely going to enter an era of 15 years with it.
Private servers do offer a window of insight but private servers cater to those that know the Classic experience or those exposed through the grapevine, Blizzard will spread their servers to be public knowledge and be way more open to new customers.

Popularity is debatable though. Making blanket statements from either side in how many will play isn't going to be justified until the actually numbers are here. It's as much as saying "Blizzard is slowly dying" but retaining subscriptions that's similar to a population of Norway and that's 4.7million people - not sure how that's actually evidence of decline or instability when their profit every month will be 500 million+.