Your view on pugging

[Deleted]

Now I'm going to have to admit, that raid-pugging was always something I was blatantly obnoxious about. Throughout my WoW history, I was always part of an organised raid guild and everything that comes a long with that.

In my experience, pugging was something I did to get through VoA and ofc Scholomance/Stratholm/UBRS in the old days.

By reading WoW forums, I have become increasingly aware of just how big the Raid-Pugging community of WoW is. While I know and understand why it might be attractive for Alts, I also have some concerns.

1. People Pug Raid because they can. This is mainly a matter of difficulty as we can generally conclude that a PuG will perform worse than an average organised Raid. The increased accessibility of Raid content is mainly to blame. Back in TBC PuGs were only popular for content that was commonly accessible for random people, like Karazhan (after the first nerfs) and later on Gruul and Magtheridon. Now people commonly PuG anything except Hardmodes.

2. Blizzard is increasingly catering to PuG. While Blizzard might see their statistics and conclude their raid model in WotLK was a success, because they got more players than ever before to participate in it, they might not take into consideration in what form they did it. Pugging, while not inherently evil, is not something that should be encouraged in an MMO.

3. The player-base will always go for the path of least resistance. And in many way, not having to commit to raiding is an easy way. This should not be encouraged as it kills part of what an MMO is essentially about. The inter-social community. If I ask many old-school veteran players what keeps them going, the "social-aspects" of an MMO is always the first response.

4. Blizzard seems to understand this and the guild-reputation system is a form of encouraging players to commit to a guild and its efforts. In a way this helps Blizzard as well, since what keeps players in the game...is, as said above....the community.


Share your views.

[Zonas]

Like you said people do pug because they can.

The main problem with it that it generates the eletism, and somtimes cause anger and anxiety when pug members do bad or act as children with mental problems.

Anouther issue is that like you also said blizz likes to lower difficulty for pugs since they are less likly to do well in harder content.

But all in all Puging is a useful option for guildless people or people who are in guilds that dont raid or cant use them that week, while it has its problems the benefits are better.

[Razya]

I am one of those strange people who enjoys pugging despite having a good guild. I've enjoyed it since vanilla ^^

But what I've really come to detest is the mentality of the pugs now. One wipe, be it a bug, a bad timed DC of a key person or some silly mistake and undoubtedly one person will leave, and then another and before you know it your raid disbanded.

I remember having no problems pugging Kara. It didn't matter if you wiped for some silly thing, you just ran in, buffed up and went again. After maybe 3 wipes and people fucking up, sure, then a person would leave. If it's a 'harder' encounter people would happily wipe for longer periods of time.

Now it's instantly giving up, no willingness to learn the encounter and absolutely no patience. I feel like people are more elitist now than they've ever been before. People moaning cause someone else isn't performing to their standards, DESPITE that a boss dies with 0 or very few casualties and no wipe.

This may also be largely due to 25 man pugs instead of having a closer knit 10 man group since those didn't really exist in TBC, except for the odd maggie or gruul (until the big nerf ofc). But even then I've had plenty of wipes at maggie and gruul without people showing the same mentality that they show now.

[Keosen]

PuGs are nice, you gambling with the quality but the no-obligations rule fit most at the majority of the players that due to work or social obligations don't have the time to be in a mainstream or hardcore guild.

I like the fact that Blizz understand this and making the game more and more casual to be treated like what is supposed to be a,game and not an obligation or work-like thing.

[Ishixaph]

I semi-pug every week with my alts, like 10 of the raid members is alts from my guild and then we bring like 10 from 2 other guilds and then we fill the rest of the slots with some "trade spamming" but those last spots are always only dps. And we kill LK 25man every week now, and we even do some hard modes.

[Deleted]

PuGs are nice, you gambling with the quality but the no-obligations rule fit most at the majority of the players that due to work or social obligations don't have the time to be in a mainstream or hardcore guild.

I like the fact that Blizz understand this and making the game more and more casual to be treated like what is supposed to be a,game and not an obligation or work-like thing.

I'm sorry but that's just a BS response.

There are guilds catering to all kinds of player mentalities and schedules. The only reason why people chose PuGs over regular guild raids is because they aren't willing to commit themselves.

Unfortunately inter-player socializing is an intricate part of all MMO games. And committing yourself to such a social group is part of an MMO.

Catering to PuGs is one of WoWs few potential pitfalls.

Pugging should remain a possibility, but it should be as limited as possible. There isn't a problem when overgeared players pug an instance or experienced players pug older content on their alts. There is a problem when pugging becomes the sole form of progressing through raid-content.

[Agoonga]

I always pug VoA, but I won the grand mammoth twice without receiving it, ninja master looters

[atomix590]

I do much prefer to raid with a guild, communication is better, groups are normally compiled with better classes, and are generally more fun due to you can have a laugh with friends.
Pugs are used for players that don't like commitment and for players that don't have the time to raid regularly at a certain time, Pugs imo are getting out of hand with the amount of ninja's about, I heard about an ICC25 run on my realm, the leader took ALL items from the first four bosses and he said that he would give them out at the fourth boss, to stop people leaving, and inevitably he left before loot was distributed (I lol'd when I heard about this) but ninja'ing is a huge thing nowadays.
Pugs are so easy to make they are very attractive to some players, and some are able to take some HC bosses in ICC too, most (if the majority of the players have good gear) can take Gunship HC with no probs at all.

[Powerogue]

sadly enough, I pug pretty often, and all my guild's 25 mans are at least 50% pug.

[Thereign]

I generally avoid pugging any raids when possible, because having a coordinated group goes a long way. This is why you can easily 22 man 25 LK in a guild, but killing festergut and rotface in a pug is a feat of strength. I don't mind heroics, but I prefer to have at least one person I know there to back me up.

[Archus]

I'm sorry but that's just a BS response.

There are guilds catering to all kinds of player mentalities and schedules. The only reason why people chose PuGs over regular guild raids is because they aren't willing to commit themselves.

Unfortunately inter-player socializing is an intricate part of all MMO games. And committing yourself to such a social group is part of an MMO.

Catering to PuGs is one of WoWs few potential pitfalls.

Pugging should remain a possibility, but it should be as limited as possible. There isn't a problem when overgeared players pug an instance or experienced players pug older content on their alts. There is a problem when pugging becomes the sole form of progressing through raid-content.

Wrong. I'm in Law School from 7:30 AM to 5:30 PM everyday. Usually arrive home at 6:15 PM and then I have guitar lessons for 2 hours from 6:30 PM to 8:30 PM. Then I study for 3 hours until 11:30 PM and guess what....I gotta go to bed, rinse repeat. Pugging is the only form of raiding I can do because evidently, I CAN'T commit to a raiding/hardcore guild. I can only play during the weekends and when I do, I want to get loot without having to deal with a guild hierarchy (working your way up the totem pole, etc..) because if that were the case, I would never receive loot.

I also don't have to deal with guild drama (Guild leader giving his girlfriend loot, completely biased loot "council") and I receive loot for the $15 I pay a month. Yep, you guessed it, I am a casual, proud to be who I am.

I wasn't always a casual though, and was part of a decent "hardcore" raiding guild about a year ago. However, my schedule changed and I had to adapt, or rather, WoW had to adapt to my schedule. PuGs are there for those who have time constraints, busy life-style and can't dedicate themselves to guilds like some of the WoW community who have more free time.

I'm fine with you choosing whatever raid style you like, be it being in a guild (Which I agree is more fun than PuGs..most of the time) but please don't belittle and reprimand so vehemently us casuals who CANNOT raid with the same frequency as you.

[Archus]

L2Prioritize WoW > RL

Maybe for some.

[Agoonga]

I was just kidding, I keep getting kicked out of my my guild's raid groups because I don't play enough. Casuals FTW. If I want loot I don't join raids with mostly people from a certain guild that aren't reliable or run by a fresh 80 of the same class

[iceberg265]

Wrong. I'm in Law School from 7:30 AM to 5:30 PM everyday. Usually arrive home at 6:15 PM and then I have guitar lessons for 2 hours from 6:30 PM to 8:30 PM. Then I study for 3 hours until 11:30 PM and guess what....I gotta go to bed, rinse repeat. Pugging is the only form of raiding I can do because evidently, I CAN'T commit to a raiding/hardcore guild. I can only play during the weekends and when I do, I want to get loot without having to deal with a guild hierarchy (working your way up the totem pole, etc..) because if that were the case, I would never receive loot.

I also don't have to deal with guild drama (Guild leader giving his girlfriend loot, completely biased loot "council") and I receive loot for the $15 I pay a month. Yep, you guessed it, I am a casual, proud to be who I am.

I wasn't always a casual though, and was part of a decent "hardcore" raiding guild about a year ago. However, my schedule changed and I had to adapt, or rather, WoW had to adapt to my schedule. PuGs are there for those who have time constraints, busy life-style and can't dedicate themselves to guilds like some of the WoW community who have more free time.

I'm fine with you choosing whatever raid style you like, be it being in a guild (Which I agree is more fun than PuGs..most of the time) but please don't belittle and reprimand so vehemently us casuals who CANNOT raid with the same frequency as you.

You CAN, you just choose not to because you think there is too much drama or whatever. It is still your choice.

Also you are awfully full of yourself for thinking a game should adapt to you.

[Fiddlesnarf]

I'm emo, so I just pug instead of cutting myself, I feel more pain that way.

[Izenhart]

Never.

Only If I'm forced to miss raiddays and I'm left with few days from the reset and need some emblems/gear whatever

[Deleted]

Wrong. I'm in Law School from 7:30 AM to 5:30 PM everyday. Usually arrive home at 6:15 PM and then I have guitar lessons for 2 hours from 6:30 PM to 8:30 PM. Then I study for 3 hours until 11:30 PM and guess what....I gotta go to bed, rinse repeat. Pugging is the only form of raiding I can do because evidently, I CAN'T commit to a raiding/hardcore guild. I can only play during the weekends and when I do, I want to get loot without having to deal with a guild hierarchy (working your way up the totem pole, etc..) because if that were the case, I would never receive loot.

I also don't have to deal with guild drama (Guild leader giving his girlfriend loot, completely biased loot "council") and I receive loot for the $15 I pay a month. Yep, you guessed it, I am a casual, proud to be who I am.

I wasn't always a casual though, and was part of a decent "hardcore" raiding guild about a year ago. However, my schedule changed and I had to adapt, or rather, WoW had to adapt to my schedule. PuGs are there for those who have time constraints, busy life-style and can't dedicate themselves to guilds like some of the WoW community who have more free time.

I'm fine with you choosing whatever raid style you like, be it being in a guild (Which I agree is more fun than PuGs..most of the time) but please don't belittle and reprimand so vehemently us casuals who CANNOT raid with the same frequency as you.

Ok so you have a tough schedule. That's fine. I used to have a 40 hour week + business school on Friday and Saturday as well. That added up to a good 60 hours a week, excluding social obligations. Yet I still managed to raid and commit myself.

I"m absolutely confident you could find a guild that suited your schedule if you wanted to. I assume you don't have guitar lessons every evening and I'm sure you don't study 3 hours every night of the year (during exam periods ok, but not all the time). And that still leaves some free weekends.

You could find a guild that raids 3 nights a weeks and requires a 50% attendance if you wanted. The problem is that you don't want to find a guild. You don't want to commit yourself to potential "virtual" obligations.

Realistically WoW doesn't require that much time to be played successfully. 2 raid-nights a week and some odd hours during the weekend (be it morning, midday or what not) and your set.

[Cheww]

what does it matter if ppl pug? I'll never get why some ppl r so concerned with what other ppl r doing. Everyone pays their $15 a month and i say let them do whatever they what.

[Jasper Kazai]

For me, it's funny. I want to raid badly, but my gear is behind since I wasn't able to play all of 3.2 and most of 3.3 until about a month ago. However, I hate pugging because I always seem to get into terrible, terrible groups. So in order for me to do what I want, I should be pugging, but I can't stand it so I don't.

[Clockwork Pinkie]

Love it ,even if it fails, not like i'd be using a ToC 10/25 save anyway, so why not spend time using the gear you got instead of sitting in Dalaran.