Correct Usage of Holy 2 piece T10

[Tyrrandion]

Just picked up holy 2t10, and was wondering how to best use it. Ive been told to macro it into DP, but others tell me to use it when i need extra healing (3rd inhale festergut). Any help clearing up how best to use this ability is much appreciated.

[SoulPoetry]

when you know you're gonna be spamming for pretty much the full duration, PP p3, fester (as you said), etc. if you want to use it with DP pressing 1 more button of the GCD isnt difficult.

[Elessa]

Using it with plea duting certain moments are good, but not for the healing bonus but because when you use plea at a bad time you will have to spam holy light alot, and this will save you a load of mana. Using it with plea you will still heal at 67.5% of normal healing. Using it at Festergut 3rd inhale, or LK soul reaper is geat aswell because you will have to spam holy lights, which heal for more and cost less mana, so you use it at its fullest potential then.

[Deleted]

Nice to use with trinket and wings for some pretty decent healing boost. Especially if your in desperate need for regen. Apart from that 2Pc is something i always use like trinket opportunity in raids.

[Firecrest]

None of the above are wrong but none of them are right either because there really is no right answer. The 2pt10 works very contrary to itself. At first glance, it seems like a pretty simple and beneficial buff, but it's actually quite stupid when you think about it.

The spell that the bonus is attached to, Divine Illumination, is used during periods of very heavy HL spam. The bigger and more often you cast a spell while under Divine Illumination, the more mana "return" you will have.

On the other hand, given our already ridiculously large heals, a bonus of bigger heals is almost always wasted. Your goal is to get HLs in between tank spikes - a slightly larger HL will not often make a difference. In the environment we're in, if your tank dies it will be by a lot, not a little. That said, healing bonuses are somewhat useful if used during Plea. But Plea is properly used during periods of low healing, which is contrary to Divine Illumination which is used during heavy spam.

Really, the only "good" time to use the 2p bonus is when you have to Plea while still laying on the HL spam. This situation does exist, but is most often avoided by simply managing your mana in a competent manner.

Really what it is is a case of Blizzard’s continued lack of understanding as to how our class works. Some guy who plays a Priest designed our set bonus after saying, "Well, if you're casting many heals, then bigger heals would be good, right?” A good Pally would have understood that we are about when the heal hits, not how big it is.

And don't even get me started on the stupidity of our 4p, a casting speed "bonus" that is actually a net loss overall.

That said, we still pick up 2p simply because there is nothing better. Tier Helm and Shoulders would still be BiS even without the tier bonus (I think there's a 277 Haste/Crit shoulders with one more socket but less Haste, so it's kind of a toss up on that one). Honestly, I use the bonus for the bonus very very little. I prefer to simply use Divine Illumination when it makes sense to use it (high HL spam) and pretty much ignore the fact the bonus exists.

[Smoopie]

I prefer to simply use Divine Illumination when it makes sense to use it (high HL spam) and pretty much ignore the fact the bonus exists.

Pretty much what I've done

[Ronark]

Also, because people will ask:

No buffs- 100% healing potential
Healing with DP active- 50% healing potential
Healing with AW- 120% healing potential
Healing with DP and AW- 60% healing potential
Healing with DP, AW, and the 2p- 81% healing potential

[Ryme]

I prefer to use mine in the following ways:

Primarily, as a mana saver. Popping it then pumping out FoLs is lovely, your flash of Light will generally be as powerful as your Holy Light during the up time, so it's a great way to get some mana savings going.

During Bloodlust, this became an apparently good thing to do before the 2 set. Blood lust will, if you're gearing right, bring you to the GCD cap for Holy Light. This means you're going to be pumping out your spams much faster than usual, a good way to slow your burn out is with a well timed DI.

Oh shit times. AV on CD? No worries, you have a back up.

[nikitabanana]

Really what it is is a case of Blizzard’s continued lack of understanding as to how our class works. Some guy who plays a Priest designed our set bonus after saying, "Well, if you're casting many heals, then bigger heals would be good, right?” A good Pally would have understood that we are about when the heal hits, not how big it is.

Bigger heals offset plea. Any long fight without a lull requiring near constant spam due to the ability of the encounter to two round takes will benefit from the 2pc bonus. You're low on mana, you plea/divine lllum (and wings if needed for throughput) and you are approximately maintaining your hps output while lowering your spell cost significantly and restoring mana. How is that not a good bonus? It's possibly the best bonus paladins have had all xpac.

And don't even get me started on the stupidity of our 4p, a casting speed "bonus" that is actually a net loss overall.

The 4p is meant to be used while moving so that when you plant you have a faster HL. Not sure where you get the "net loss" overall from. Think H Halion. You move through the dragon (or away from meteorite depending on how you choose to do the encounter). Tank dips when you move, you HS, you get through, plant, and have a reduced HL. H LK can be somewhat similar. I don't personally use the 4pc since I don't find it necessary (I only took 2x277 tokens and dps have needed them, so I just haven't desired them) - but its entirely feasible and makes sense for a number of fights.

That said, we still pick up 2p simply because there is nothing better. Tier Helm and Shoulders would still be BiS even without the tier bonus (I think there's a 277 Haste/Crit shoulders with one more socket but less Haste, so it's kind of a toss up on that one). Honestly, I use the bonus for the bonus very very little. I prefer to simply use Divine Illumination when it makes sense to use it (high HL spam) and pretty much ignore the fact the bonus exists.

You pick up the two piece because the bonus is stellar.

[Ronark]

The 4p is meant to be used while moving so that when you plant you have a faster HL. Not sure where you get the "net loss" overall from. Think H Halion. You move through the dragon (or away from meteorite depending on how you choose to do the encounter). Tank dips when you move, you HS, you get through, plant, and have a reduced HL. H LK can be somewhat similar. I don't personally use the 4pc since I don't find it necessary (I only took 2x277 tokens and dps have needed them, so I just haven't desired them) - but its entirely feasible and makes sense for a number of fights.

The "net loss" would be if you casted a HL, then a HS, then another HL, over casting 2 straight Holy lights.

In the first scenario, it would take an extra 1.2 seconds to cast a Holy Light, where as in the second, it would take 0 (because of the GCD).

[nikitabanana]

The "net loss" would be if you casted a HL, then a HS, then another HL, over casting 2 straight Holy lights.

In the first scenario, it would take an extra 1.2 seconds to cast a Holy Light, where as in the second, it would take 0 (because of the GCD).

That's a net loss sure, but it's also just plain stupid to do. That's not why the bonus is useful. I'm not even sure why that scenario is a discussion piece because it's somewhat ludicrous. The point is to allow the paladin to get off a HL faster once planted (aka holy shock on the move).

[Dorn]

It's possibly the best bonus paladins have had all xpac.

Actually our best set bonus this xpac (like our libram) was the naxx set- decreasing the cost of holy lights by another 5%.

edit- On the 4pc t10 bonus being a net loss, aside from having to use a HS to gain the hasted HL, you lose out on a godly amount of haste by taking the other 2 pieces since they're horribly itemized, and because of that your "hasted" HL will actually be slower than if you had the haste items instead.

[Borigrad]

Actually our best set bonus this xpac (like our libram) was the naxx set- decreasing the cost of holy lights by another 5%.

yeah to bad all you needed to use in naxx was sacred shield and flash of light.

[Ronark]

That's a net loss sure, but it's also just plain stupid to do. That's not why the bonus is useful. I'm not even sure why that scenario is a discussion piece because it's somewhat ludicrous. The point is to allow the paladin to get off a HL faster once planted (aka holy shock on the move).

Ok, then its a net loss in the sense that HS is our least mana-efficent heal, and that mana would have been better off on a HL- Moreso given the amount of Haste most people have, bringing 1 HL from 1.2 sec to 1 sec cast isn't that special.

Combine that with the stats lost just from using the 4pc, and it is a net loss.

[Borigrad]

honestly holy shock is not a loss, i'm sorry but your not just standing there and spamming holy light not even on heroic saurfang 25, you can heal with flash until frenzy at least i can, and i imagine i ain't the most geared holy pally here.

holy shock is for when your not constantly healing, it's a mana saver when used effectivly with flash of light especially during low damage moments when holy light spam isn't needed. If you deny at least that much i have this feeling your making it up. There are honestly a lot of fight where you don't just spam HL and you can use shock and flash in heroic.

[Ronark]

holy shock is for when your not constantly healing, it's a mana saver when used effectivly with flash of light especially during low damage moments when holy light spam isn't needed. If you deny at least that much i have this feeling your making it up. There are honestly a lot of fight where you don't just spam HL and you can use shock and flash in heroic.

Why would you use HS in any scenario, unless they need a heal NOW?

HL has better burst healing than a HS + FoL instant cast combo.
2 FoLs have better and quicker burst than a HS + FoL instant cast combo.

Even if you do have to move, the small healing from HS won't make much of a difference. HS should only be used when you have to move, and even then it is still the weakest mana-efficient heal.

[Borigrad]

Why would you use HS in any scenario, unless they need a heal NOW?

HL has better burst healing than a HS + FoL instant cast combo.
2 FoLs have better and quicker burst than a HS + FoL instant cast combo.

Even if you do have to move, the small healing from HS won't make much of a difference. HS should only be used when you have to move, and even then it is still the weakest mana-efficient heal.

cause i like to pretend my abilities matter v.v.

that or i know someone is about to take damage so i snipe heal them quickly, generally i just flash of light if its all thats needed, that i am actually wearing out the button on my mouse from healbot i click so fast.

[Ronark]

cause i like to pretend my abilities matter v.v.

that or i know someone is about to take damage so i snipe heal them quickly, generally i just flash of light if its all thats needed, that i am actually wearing out the button on my mouse from healbot i click so fast.

Even if you wanted to snipe heal, you will do more healing with a FoL or 2 FoLs or even a HL for the same "cast time".

Unless you are under the haste soft cap, of course.

[Borigrad]

i'm not content is just easy now... so it doesn't matter what i do anymore... that and i just no longer care about icc.

[Firecrest]

Bigger heals offset plea. Any long fight without a lull requiring near constant spam due to the ability of the encounter to two round takes will benefit from the 2pc bonus. You're low on mana, you plea/divine lllum (and wings if needed for throughput) and you are approximately maintaining your hps output while lowering your spell cost significantly and restoring mana. How is that not a good bonus? It's possibly the best bonus paladins have had all xpac.

I already made this same point. Really the only good use of the 2p is as an offset when you need to Plea and need to maintain HL spam. Generally speaking though, if you find yourself in this situation, you did something wrong in the first place with your mana management. Let's face it, the only fight you really need to Plea on anymore is HM LK and maybe Princes. All the rest have sufficient lulls or are just too freaking short to matter.

The 4p is meant to be used while moving so that when you plant you have a faster HL. Not sure where you get the "net loss" overall from. Think H Halion. You move through the dragon (or away from meteorite depending on how you choose to do the encounter). Tank dips when you move, you HS, you get through, plant, and have a reduced HL. H LK can be somewhat similar. I don't personally use the 4pc since I don't find it necessary (I only took 2x277 tokens and dps have needed them, so I just haven't desired them) - but its entirely feasible and makes sense for a number of fights.

The net loss of the 4p bonus stems from the fact that the .3 second reduction is applied prior to any other cast reduction modifiers. The math is around if you look for it, but the end result is that the advertised .3 second reduction in actuality is only .14 seconds. The circumstances involved in making this set bonus have a meaningful impact on a raid (saving someone's life) is absolutely absurd. Over months and months of wearing the bonus, you'd be lucky to have it save someone's life once. And in the meantime, you're losing out on a couple hundred Haste because you're wearing two shittily itemized pieces of gear. Hence the net loss in your overall HPS.

You pick up the two piece because the bonus is stellar.

"Stellar" is giving this tier bonus way way too much credit. It is "alright" at best. It probably just looks attractive because we're used to getting absolute trash on our tier. We got 4pt7 and that's pretty much it.

And all this without even talking about the shitty itemization they put on our gear. It's gotten worse with every set. Tier 7 gave us three pieces of our best itemization (Haste/Crit at the time), Tier 8 gave us two (Haste/Crit again), Tier 9 gave us one (Haste/MP5 after the Illumination nerfs) and Tier 10 gives us zero. Zero! It's garbage. Tier gear should be a reward. It should be itemized in such a way that you want to wear it. Instead we get 0/5 pieces of properly itemized gear and a 4p that's worse than nothing at all. I mean, how do you explain to a regular player that he's actually better off NOT grabbing the carrot at the end of the stick?