[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[SodiumChloride]

I kind of let this game drop after my guild broke up but I'm finally getting the drive to play again. I suppose the best thing to do to start up again is gear up from the Crystal Tower?

CT gear is ilvl 80.

Myth vendor gear is ilvl 90.
1st coil gear is also ilvl 90 - I think.

Soldiery vendor gear is ilvl 100.

Up to you really.

[-aiko-]

^ Does CT drop myth?

[Arkenaw]

^ Does CT drop myth?

150 and 10 soldiery

[Tazila]

I must be lucky, but my experience with DPS players has been largely positive. I have, however, had to pick up the slack for overzealous tanks who feel the need to pull almost everything in sight. Even with the healer and DPS showing restraint this can become very dangerous and messy with some nasty AoE combos that wipe out a player in a matter of seconds.

I get that people want to rush through dungeons as swiftly as possible but such a method can be rather frustrating to endure. Especially as a DPS with little in the way of AoE.

Oh don't worry. Most of my interactions in this game have been largely positive. I'm generally an advocate for this game having a pretty awesome community compared to other MMO communities.

For me though, I've ran into more of the Q Q DPS than the PULL EVERYTHING tanks. I think I'd prefer the Q Q-ing DPS anyways. > >

[Lyese]

Make threat gen scale with STR?

Also what is this infinite-flare rotation? I normally do F3->F2->F2->Flare->transpose ... repeat.

Edit: Never mind, I figured out the Flare thing. Man, this is so going to get patch next week. LOL.

Threatgen scales with STR by virtue of increasing damage dealt, in addition to the handful of CRIT/DET you get on some pieces (SkS is pretty much garbage). Maybe if DET also reduced damage taken or CRIT can affect parries (critical parry!) That way, you don't feel as bad getting more DPS stats, or just have something like Vengeance where as you get beat on, you get more STR or something.

The infini-Flare (we called it the O Canada rotation) has been around since 2.0. It's pretty hilariously OP and both a blessing and a curse on T4 progression.

[Deleted]

Gonna say it like this, tanking needs a threat buff, the thing with FF14 more so then any other mmo, is that most of the dpsers arent very good as a whole of the game, never seen this much unskilled players, anyways, if dps are asked to be throttled in such cases, this is going backwards, now controlling damage like you do on mog king extreme and dungeon mobs arent the same thing, mog king ex lets you go flat out then stop or throttle based on HP, not threat.
The dungeons are a good way for dpsers to fine tune their ability and gain more practice, now for them to be asked to not go flat out and test their ability isnt helping people to improve, how can you improve when you cant test your ability.

There simply isnt enough accountability for damage dealers in this game, and I main BLM, people should be encouraged to improve themselves, granted the tank is getting stressed, but hate to say it, this is the environment they are in to begin with, this is their training and improvement area, why should a tank complain about threat undermine the self improvement for damage dealers when said tank should be pushed to handle such cases to begin with.

It helps both ends, both sides get better, this game really needs more ways for people to actually improve cos this game has so many unskilled players, which is why there is such a massive divide like no other, people arent accepting middle ground in the slightest and are horribly selfish.

[Tazila]

Eh, even in WoW dps can ask to be a bit throttled if something is going wrong, and they have an instant threat #1 boost for tanks.


The only times I've really ran into DPS pulling severely are the ones that target the thing that is either marked as #2, or what ever the tank ISN'T targetting, or blow all their CD's on the first mob they see the tank pull without allowing him to create any thread.


I've tanked on my little lowbie and usually, I'll tell them that if they target 2 or 3 and ignore the one marked as 1 and pull one of the other two, they can tank it. I mark for a reason, and if they want to do what ever they want, they can, but they can also kite or take the damage.

On my SCH though, for the most part if someone is constantly pulling things off the tank, and it's the same situation, ignoring the one they're suppose to attack and attacking everything else. If/when they die, they'll get mad and I'll simply point out that I will heal the tank over the dps especially if the dps is pulling things all willy nilly.



That and while I want to assume that most of them are just awful and feel a little bit better somehow, They seem to have the same ability as every other dpser in every other game I played.

This game has a lot of good people, but it also has a lot of people that take advantage of the ones who try to help.

I really do want to assume most of them suck, I find it more reasonable to think that they want to blow up mobs and they don't really care because they want the instance done -NOW-. The only thing I've noticed about FF is that speed runs or even just LET'S GET IT OVER WITH ASAP runs are pretty much the norm. It's a breath of fresh air to have a group who doesn't care, but almost everyone wants to rush, which makes them careless, which causes problems like this.

[Deleted]

Have to disagree with the wow bit Im afraid, with my lock, and when i do random HCs, I can do 200-300 k dps single target without bloodlust and as I do play destro lock, I can basically just sweep any packs by doing close to a million or above a million dps on AOE, and I still dont lose threat on a low geared tank, and Im not even trying to speed run, this is just me knowing how to play my class well enough which is why I can pull those numbers.

And if you are deciding to just let the mobs hit the dps cos they hit the wrong target, then I hate to say it, both parties are being idiots, you still need to try get those mobs off, if you want to be a good tank, you should develop the ability to handle the cases, pride your ability, your just being selfish and actually not caring your self in this regard.

Yes the dpsers hit the wrong target, but shouldnt mean you dont have the power to try take it back, wheres you spirit of trying to do better for your self, its prime situation to show your skill, again accountability, your not showing it.

In regards to if they suck, well since SE are trying their best to not hold dpsers accounted for their damage, they can run rampant in this case, with no accountability, there can be no improvement.

The good people stick to themselves really more and more now, IMO its nothing to do with speeds runs etc.., its attitude, theres a lot of bad attitude in this game and bad manners, with all of the spiritbonding, needing on items which they dont need and abusing the need system, where they should of greeded, i.e for seals.
Theres not a lot of respect between players in this game, which is by far the worst Ive seen yet, and just goes to show how selfish it is.

[Lyese]

snip

You can't really base things on random pugs or dungeon runs, though. The tank could be greater geared or skilled than the dpsers, or vice versa. In a raid setting where most things are equal (which is the majority of raiding), DPSers can easily pull off tanks, especially on things that matter (adds that need to die asap). Healers are also huge aggro magnets (slimes in p3 of t6), and overhealing counts for aggro. My SMN (Of all classes) can rip aggro pretty easily, especially if I get Bane->Fester onto an add that spawns. When I played Bard, I had to tone down my burst. It's hard for me to do dungeon runs as dps because hardly anyone can hold aggro off a dpser that knows what they're doing (hence the InfiniFlare rotation on my BLM). It's frustrating to tank in this game sometimes, especially when you're doing runs with your raid group.

Have to disagree with the wow bit Im afraid, with my lock, and when i do random HCs, I can do 200-300 k dps single target without bloodlust and as I do play destro lock, I can basically just sweep any packs by doing close to a million or above a million dps on AOE, and I still dont lose threat on a low geared tank, and Im not even trying to speed run, this is just me knowing how to play my class well enough which is why I can pull those numbers.
...
The good people stick to themselves really more and more now, IMO its nothing to do with speeds runs etc.., its attitude

In WoW, there's a 500% aggro modifier to defensive stances, Vengeance gives AP scaling, and there are a lot more tools for aoe threat. The two are hardly a comparison.

Server cred, and grouping with fellow raid members/guildies, is what I do in lieu of randomly pugging because it's so much easier.

[Tazila]

I mainly based my opinions on tanking on doing dungeons since I haven't done anything past CT. I'm assuming if the guy hit 50 and shortly quit there after, he never even got the experience raid tanking and he alreayd thinkgs tanking is awful.

[Sorrior]

Have to disagree with the wow bit Im afraid, with my lock, and when i do random HCs, I can do 200-300 k dps single target without bloodlust and as I do play destro lock, I can basically just sweep any packs by doing close to a million or above a million dps on AOE, and I still dont lose threat on a low geared tank, and Im not even trying to speed run, this is just me knowing how to play my class well enough which is why I can pull those numbers.

And if you are deciding to just let the mobs hit the dps cos they hit the wrong target, then I hate to say it, both parties are being idiots, you still need to try get those mobs off, if you want to be a good tank, you should develop the ability to handle the cases, pride your ability, your just being selfish and actually not caring your self in this regard.

Yes the dpsers hit the wrong target, but shouldnt mean you dont have the power to try take it back, wheres you spirit of trying to do better for your self, its prime situation to show your skill, again accountability, your not showing it.

In regards to if they suck, well since SE are trying their best to not hold dpsers accounted for their damage, they can run rampant in this case, with no accountability, there can be no improvement.

The good people stick to themselves really more and more now, IMO its nothing to do with speeds runs etc.., its attitude, theres a lot of bad attitude in this game and bad manners, with all of the spiritbonding, needing on items which they dont need and abusing the need system, where they should of greeded, i.e for seals.
Theres not a lot of respect between players in this game, which is by far the worst Ive seen yet, and just goes to show how selfish it is.

Are we even playing the same game? Seriously occassional ass aside the cokmunity is pretty damn chill.

And I main tanks I grab threat back as best I can. But if my gear is bad/low enough even a full on hate combo and nothing but can lose aggro.

This game unlike WoW requires EVERYONE to do their part in higher end content.

And yes even in wow pre vengeance and threat buff dps was asked to throttle sometimes. It is actually a skill to be able to do that well. One that USED to be required. Take enh shammie in WoW we could rip threat off of ANYTHING in wrath and bc with some unlucky timing and spikes...We had NO threat dump so we learned to throttle to back off and so on. Which was a basic skill for us back then.

Today if anything WoW made it SO easy guys like you don't even see it. But yeah I LOVE tanking in FF because I HAVE to work on it..And I mean have to...

[SodiumChloride]

Threatgen scales with STR by virtue of increasing damage dealt, in addition to the handful of CRIT/DET you get on some pieces (SkS is pretty much garbage). Maybe if DET also reduced damage taken or CRIT can affect parries (critical parry!) That way, you don't feel as bad getting more DPS stats, or just have something like Vengeance where as you get beat on, you get more STR or something.

The infini-Flare (we called it the O Canada rotation) has been around since 2.0. It's pretty hilariously OP and both a blessing and a curse on T4 progression.

Threat is just a number generated. Generally it scales with damage for DPS. For tanks it doesn't really matter how it scales as long as it increases enough to keep pace with DPS threat gen. If the gap in threat generation percentage wise between tanks and DPS gets smaller as everyone gears up ... threat scaling is broken.

And no. No BS like Vengeance. It will just create DPS tanks that what to see big numbers ... the hell with doing your job like keeping aggro and not dropping dead. The last thing the game needs is "do it all" tanks that can tank it, DPS it and heal themselves like Wolverine. Seriously, WTF do you need the rest of the group for then. It will only create uppity tanks that think they are god's gift to MMO players because everyone else is "useless" and expendable.

[Lyese]

Are we even playing the same game? Seriously occassional ass aside the cokmunity is pretty damn chill.

And I main tanks I grab threat back as best I can. But if my gear is bad/low enough even a full on hate combo and nothing but can lose aggro.

This game unlike WoW requires EVERYONE to do their part in higher end content.

And yes even in wow pre vengeance and threat buff dps was asked to throttle sometimes. It is actually a skill to be able to do that well. One that USED to be required. Take enh shammie in WoW we could rip threat off of ANYTHING in wrath and bc with some unlucky timing and spikes...We had NO threat dump so we learned to throttle to back off and so on. Which was a basic skill for us back then.

Today if anything WoW made it SO easy guys like you don't even see it. But yeah I LOVE tanking in FF because I HAVE to work on it..And I mean have to...

I mean, this is mostly anecdotal evidence at this point, but dpsers are easily pushing over 400+ nowadays. If an add has to die quickly, and 4 dpsers point their laser cannons at it, good luck if you have anything less than a hot combo and a dps cd (FoF or Berserk). I can't group with most tanks in pugs because I'd rip aggro off them pretty quickly.

Enh Shammies were bursty with WF and crits. You technically had Tranquil Air totem as a threat drop, and your sustained dps was pretty bad. The only time you were in danger of pulling threat was when you got back to back WF crits, otherwise, they didn't really do much.

Threat is just a number generated. Generally it scales with damage for DPS. For tanks it doesn't really matter how it scales as long as it increases enough to keep pace with DPS threat gen. If the gap in threat generation percentage wise between tanks and DPS gets smaller as everyone gears up ... threat scaling is broken.

And no. No BS like Vengeance. It will just create DPS tanks that what to see big numbers ... the hell with doing your job like keeping aggro and not dropping dead. The last thing the game needs is "do it all" tanks that can tank it, DPS it and heal themselves like Wolverine. Seriously, WTF do you need the rest of the group for then. It will only create uppity tanks that think they are god's gift to MMO players because everyone else is "useless" and expendable.

Right, but what I'm saying is that at higher gear levels, there is a huge threat gap. It's why most of the higher end tanks gear for dps and screw parry. The extra dps contribution makes enrage fights like t8 more manageable, there's less threat of losing aggro, in exchange for taking more overall damage. Besides, even if Veng was added to this game, tanks don't really self-heal (Warrs have IB on a bit of a cd, tied to Wrath), and are already trading survivability for damage. Do people even play this game past t6?

[Sorrior]

I mean, this is mostly anecdotal evidence at this point, but dpsers are easily pushing over 400+ nowadays. If an add has to die quickly, and 4 dpsers point their laser cannons at it, good luck if you have anything less than a hot combo and a dps cd (FoF or Berserk). I can't group with most tanks in pugs because I'd rip aggro off them pretty quickly.

Enh Shammies were bursty with WF and crits. You technically had Tranquil Air totem as a threat drop, and your sustained dps was pretty bad. The only time you were in danger of pulling threat was when you got back to back WF crits, otherwise, they didn't really do much.



Right, but what I'm saying is that at higher gear levels, there is a huge threat gap. It's why most of the higher end tanks gear for dps and screw parry. The extra dps contribution makes enrage fights like t8 more manageable, there's less threat of losing aggro, in exchange for taking more overall damage. Besides, even if Veng was added to this game, tanks don't really self-heal (Warrs have IB on a bit of a cd, tied to Wrath), and are already trading survivability for damage. Do people even play this game past t6?

I mained enh from bc on trust me I kniw...And people like me got ALOT of WF crits.

But yeah I no want vengeance esque thing I like having to work at my job.

[zito]

Tanking in FF14 and WoW have 2 seperate goals. FF14 wants you to work and maintain aggro, WoW wants tank threat to be easy to acquire and focus on self survival.

You really can't bring the 2 in this kind of comparison.

[SodiumChloride]

The extra dps contribution makes enrage fights like t8 more manageable, there's less threat of losing aggro, in exchange for taking more overall damage.

No. Why bother having roles then? Might as well let BLMs tank, it would help with fights that have a lot of adds.

Besides, even if Veng was added to this game, tanks don't really self-heal (Warrs have IB on a bit of a cd, tied to Wrath), and are already trading survivability for damage. Do people even play this game past t6?

I'm talking about WoW tanks that seem to live forever even without a healer.

No you should never be able to trade anything for anything. This is a game with roles. If you can just trade one role's characteristics for another, why bother with having roles at all.

If you want "cross-role" capability, then everyone should have cross-role capability - not just a selected few special classes.

[Sorrior]

Tanking in FF14 and WoW have 2 seperate goals. FF14 wants you to work and maintain aggro, WoW wants tank threat to be easy to acquire and focus on self survival.

You really can't bring the 2 in this kind of comparison.

LOL agreed at least for modern wow.

[Grym]

If you want "cross-role" capability, then everyone should have cross-role capability - not just a selected few special classes.

Healers also get cleric stances so they can dps when needed.
Tanks can dps when needed.
DPS can dps when they can be arsed.

[Lyese]

No. Why bother having roles then? Might as well let BLMs tank, it would help with fights that have a lot of adds.

Ummm...except that's what higher end tanks are doing right now? As in, gearing for DPS rather than parry (cherry picking drops/stone items for anything that doesn't have defensive stats) for the reasons I stated above. It's already happening, and will probably continue to happen as long as Parry has garbage returns.

I'm talking about WoW tanks that seem to live forever even without a healer.

I know, and I'm saying that could never happen in this game because of how little self healing tanks have in this game as opposed to WoW.

No you should never be able to trade anything for anything. This is a game with roles. If you can just trade one role's characteristics for another, why bother with having roles at all.

So I guess Cleric Stance isn't a thing, and neither are the Maim/Riot Blade combo actions.

Tanking in FF14 and WoW have 2 seperate goals. FF14 wants you to work and maintain aggro, WoW wants tank threat to be easy to acquire and focus on self survival.
You really can't bring the 2 in this kind of comparison.

What you're missing the point is this game is handling aggro the way WoW used to back in BC (tanking with threat modifiers). Of course, as guilds got closer to BT/MH, tanks were losing threat more and more often because threat didn't scale as well for them as DPS scaled for DPSers (due to the inherent synergy in dps stats). The same thing is happening in this game, but people are content to plug their fingers in their ears going "lalala" because bad dpsers can't pull off tanks, when at upper tiers it's happening. This will lead to either more threat buffs or just a shitty time overall for tanks as dpsers continue to scale past their threat capabilities.

[Deleted]

Something random :P
We re getting chocobo raising it seems next patch! I was pretty sure someone in the forums posted something he datamined about chocobo breeding where you d get to breed your chocobos and raise their babies etc etc to make em into mounts and get different colored chocobos!
I m assuming its not part of chocobo raising right?
Hope we ll get it soon though