Opinion request; Fallen Paladin utilizing the Shadow in place of the Light.

[Sora Dawnblade]

Interested in knowing if there are lore implications to a paladin turning to the Shadow. Or, if not to that, then to Fel energy instead. Wanting to put a spin on the usual paladin style of RP.

[fumblz]

Interested in knowing if there are lore implications to a paladin turning to the Shadow. Or, if not to that, then to Fel energy instead. Wanting to put a spin on the usual paladin style of RP.

Closest thing i can think of are the holy cows, they use the sun instead of the holy light. Check wowpedia it has all the lore up to date.

[Raptor With a Saber]

Necromancer would be closest thing

[Viradiance]

Interested in knowing if there are lore implications to a paladin turning to the Shadow. Or, if not to that, then to Fel energy instead. Wanting to put a spin on the usual paladin style of RP.

When a Paladin forsakes the light or knowingly commits and evil act, they lose all ability to wield the Light. There is, more or less, no going back. It's not impossible for them to substitute Shadow in place of the Light, as they're pretty much different sides of the same coin (Light hurts undead and heals living, shadow heals the undead and hurts the living).

But a Shadow Paladin is, for all intents and purposes, a Death Knight.

You could also make him a Warrior and RP out the darkness stuff-- my Rogue, for instance, is more of a shadowmage than a Rogue, but is a Rogue for gameplay mechanics.

[Rorick]

My two main theories:

1.) Death Knight, essentially. I don't think you have to be dead to learn the necromantic powers.

2.) Perhaps it's possible for those who use the Light to forcibly draw upon it.

Honestly, there's no telling. But if priests can do it, so can pallies.

[Agent Mercury]

http://www.wowpedia.org/Ex-paladin

There ya go

[The Madgod]

Basically, a paladin who wields shadow magic is best described in-game as a death knight.

My two main theories:

1.) Death Knight, essentially. I don't think you have to be dead to learn the necromantic powers.

2.) Perhaps it's possible for those who use the Light to forcibly draw upon it.

Honestly, there's no telling. But if priests can do it, so can pallies.

You can learn necromantic powers before you're dead, that was the basic premise of the second generation of death knights. They were paladins who had lost faith in the light, heard the call of the Lich King, and swore to his service. They lost their souls, and became undead-like, but they never technically died, so can't necessarily be considered undead.

And nobody who wields the Light can forcibly draw from it unless they have a physical source, like the Sunwell Blood Knights (and arguably, the Draenei) do. Everybody else wields it with faith; faith in the light and faith in the idea that what they do is the right thing.

Aside from the Cult of Forgotten Shadow (link), I don't think there's any documentation within the lore as to why priests wield shadow magic when doing so is such a large conflict with their use of the Light and what they use the Light for.

[Khorianas]

The way I see it to manifest Holy spells you either need faith or zeal. Zeal meaning a twisted sense of justice, see Scarlet Crusade. There are no other ways to wield the light, if we take into account the events of the Sunwell patch, where it is revealed that M'uru sacrificed himself/gave his powers willingly to the bloodknights. With that knowledge, there is no real occurance in Lore where light is wielded forcefully. (If anybody mentions Sir Zelliek I will stab him.)

And if you can't use holy spells anymore, you are an ex-paladin, game mechanics and lore wise, as has been stated. And if by implications you mean how others would react on that, I'd think most common people would turn to a negative attitude towards you as a "fallen" Paladin.

[Nonfictionless]

I would send you here! Aland Wood and more importantly the story of how it happened, Fall of the Light,Rise of the Shadow

Yes, yes my own Bio I know. But as stated above there really isn't much lore in this aspect. So I went down the route that most priests do in the Cult. He is what I affectionately call a Shadow Warrior. He is a Dark Priest and at the same time still retains his training as a Retribution-ist, swinging a sword and what not. And now learning the power the Shadow can offer that the Light just could not.

However I would like to say that this should require death. Others may see it a bit different but the Shadow should not be able to be wielded by the living.

If you have any more specific questions just ask away!

[Synaxis]

However I would like to say that this should require death. Others may see it a bit different but the Shadow should not be able to be wielded by the living.

I am one that sees it a bit differently.

Keep in mind that a lot of what I do is interpretative - I literally make shit up to fill in the holes left in the lore, so everything I am about to say is purely my opinion and not fact.

When I first started playing Nox, I played her in her pre-undeath rogue incarnation. She wasn't Noxvari yet. She wasn't a death knight, she wasn't undead. She was just a lying, sneaking, backstabbing, vengeful rogue with a strong will and a hot temper. She tended to prefer the company of the Forsaken, thought the blood elves as weak and soft, and even then thought the Light was pretty much.. well, exactly as she described it in the thread with Aland. Exposure to the Forsaken exposed her to the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, which intrigued her greatly - she pursued it, even though she never joined the cult due to her having a pulse and all.

The lore says that the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow is about self-empowerment, it's not about an outside force assisting you in battle.. I interpreted that in a 'well, everyone has a little bit of 'the shadow' inside them' kind of way. I never interpreted it to be an exact foil of 'counter' to the light; I did not get the impression that it was definitely 'evil,' perhaps a bit shady, but not necessarily evil. I wrote it as being more or less just grossly misunderstood because the people most likely to seek that kind of self-empowerment might be what one would consider 'evil.' I did not view death as a prerequisite to being able to utilize the power of the Shadow; perhaps helpful, but certainly not a mandatory part of it.

I would say it is something individual to each character that they must themselves seek and tap into or channel on their own. I see the Shadow as at least partially self-serving; a character is more or less just a 'host' to its power, it will not empower those who are not willing to empower themselves.. I imagine the priest or the paladin or other similarly 'righteous' figures would shun it as I imagine the Light, too, would shun those who access the Shadow because of its general do-what-you-have-to-do influence.

Yeah.



TL;DR - I once played a living blood elf rogue who was a Shadow-follower. I don't see an issue.

[Sora Dawnblade]

Ok, that clears that up for me. Now, is there lore based precedent for someone's soul being torn out and replaced with another in the wow universe?
I'm considering a Draenai Paladin whose soul is removed and a warlock soul is inserted into his body, similar to the death knights of the Second War, just without the being dead part.

[Istella]

Not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure having your soul ripped out would prove fatal. >.>

Stuffing another one in the dead body right away would reanimate it of course, like the 2nd gen of Dks, but I think that would still technically make you undead.

[The Madgod]

Not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure having your soul ripped out would prove fatal. >.>

Stuffing another one in the dead body right away would reanimate it of course, like the 2nd gen of Dks, but I think that would still technically make you undead.

That's first generation. Second generation do have their souls taken from them by their runeblades. Or at least Arthas' was. I'm pretty sure the runeblades of lesser death knights functioned in a similar way.

That having been said, the runeblades were made so that their wielder could still be alive without their soul... and without an artifact of that sort of power (which I don't believe exists elsewhere in the Warcraft universe, since it was done with secrets of the Burning Legion that I doubt they would share with lesser servants), your guy'd be dead once his soul's taken from him.

[Khorianas]

If i recall correctly, Baron Rivendare pledged his service to the Scource/Arthas for the powers of a death knight. wether he died or not has never been stated but he did show physical signs of decay and reacted to the holy light like any undead. So if they are in fact alive of dead is never truly stated, but they are soulless, and most likely corrupted beyond redemption.

[Istella]

Herp derp, yeah I meant 1st gen. I had a stupid moment, sorry.