[Priest] Shadow DPS Guide

[Yvaelle]

Just a reminder, the true priority system isn't nearly as clear-cut as written. You want to cast 3Orb DP before Mind Blast or SW: Death come off cooldown, but you want to refresh SW: Pain or VT before DP if it would fall off during the GCD. Of course, if MB/SW: Death cooldowns are going to expire at the same time the dots expire, then DP>MB>SW: Death>SW: Pain>VT.

With FDCL and Glyph of Mind Spike, ideally you want to save up two stacks of Surge of Darkness, and start casting Mind Spike ~4-5 seconds before MB comes off CD, so that it's instant, and you effectively reduce DP's CD by a GCD. Of course, you don't want to waste extra stacks of SoD, so you may want to use one stack as soon as you get it, then use the second one up before the Mind Surge buff falls off, all before MB comes off CD again. You probably want to cast Mind Spike just befor MB comes off CD even if you only have one stack.

All true!

The only purpose of a priority list is so that if you have two spells up at precisely the same time, you can look at the list, compare their positions, and cast the higher priority spell. Priority lists can't explain the mental arithmetic that explains (as you just did) when a priority list is not to be followed, I think you kind of just have to tell people the basics, explain the synergies, and with practice and understanding they learn when to ignore the rules. If I may be permitted to steal a quote from Barbarossa in an old pirate movie, "Priority Lists are really more like... guidelines"

[Arlee]

If I may be permitted to steal a quote from Barbarossa in an old pirate movie, "Priority Lists are really more like... guidelines"

* Groan...

But it is true. I have a feeling that a fair amount of the "Fix My DPS" thread will be taken up by people not recognizing the exceptions to the rules of the priority list. We had in the beginning of cata, and it is the way of things again. Someone should totally make a flowchart

[Twintop]

* Groan...

But it is true. I have a feeling that a fair amount of the "Fix My DPS" thread will be taken up by people not recognizing the exceptions to the rules of the priority list. We had in the beginning of cata, and it is the way of things again. Someone should totally make a flowchart

A few good flowchart examples from back in the day...

Ret Pally (Wrath)
Kitty DPS (Wrath)
Resto Druid (forever)

[Kelesti]

There were numerous situations where you could change your priority to win some extra dps. That separated good shadowpriests from great ones. Now it'll be gone.

Tell me numerous situations where you could change your priority list? All the multi-DoT'ing ability is still there. Clipping your Mind Flay for Mind Blast is still a DPS increase. Holding a Plague because a target's going to die is still a DPS increase. What's actually gone that wasn't there before, that actually changed the way you play?

[Deleted]

Tell me numerous situations where you could change your priority list? All the multi-DoT'ing ability is still there. Clipping your Mind Flay for Mind Blast is still a DPS increase. Holding a Plague because a target's going to die is still a DPS increase. What's actually gone that wasn't there before, that actually changed the way you play?

Forcing Mind Flay so that fiend would come off cooldown for situations it was needed. Using Mind Flay and changing the way you face to refresh SWP before last tick. Not Mind Blasting when it was off cooldown, but you had no orbs. Making sure dots were reapplied before using Archangel (was taken away altogether). Keeping Evangelism up when you had lots of adds to multidot (was taken away altogether).

Just a few I could come up with in a matter of seconds. There are more.

[Yvaelle]

* Groan...

But it is true. I have a feeling that a fair amount of the "Fix My DPS" thread will be taken up by people not recognizing the exceptions to the rules of the priority list. We had in the beginning of cata, and it is the way of things again. Someone should totally make a flowchart

Ya I sighed in dissapointment when I said it as well:
Nerdy Yvaelle: "The problem is that priorities aren't quite rules"
Dorky Yvaelle: "Their more like guidelines!"
All Other Parts of Yvaelle's Mind: <long, drawn-out sigh> >_<
Nerdy Yvaelle: "Ya... but we probably have to say it"

So I tried thinking about what a flowchart would look like, and it was going pretty well until I got to the talent combinations. Nine different combinations of talents mixed into the choices are going to make the flowchart huge. Still, I think it's a good idea - we should maybe brainstorm what we're up against. The examples twintop linked are meant to be funny while skipping the real complexity - so I think the first question is: are we doing a joke flowchart, or are we being serious about it?

[Deleted]

Seems like as the talent choices are based on what style of fight it is, you could just do one flow chart for patchwerk style(with the optimal talents for it) and one for a ship like encounter.

[Arlee]

Honestly I think a real one would be helpful for the visual people out there (I almost made one during cata but then I noticed a butterfly and it never got done). The real issue would be not turning it into a giant clusterfuck =/ Possibly a separate chart for the different talent combos that matter?

Also, muti-dotting while having DI is awesome.

And, Twintop I have always loved those charts, so happy they aren't lost

[Celentes]

Tell me numerous situations where you could change your priority list? All the multi-DoT'ing ability is still there. Clipping your Mind Flay for Mind Blast is still a DPS increase. Holding a Plague because a target's going to die is still a DPS increase. What's actually gone that wasn't there before, that actually changed the way you play?

All the multidotting does not actually require you to watch swp (at least, it's not really much of a dps decrease if it drops before you refresh it anymore), evangelism and ES, same goes for aoe (except SWP part). I think there actually is a major difference between 'just dot' and 'dot if X and Y are up, dot if X is not up but Y is up if there are Z targets' etc etc.

[Kelesti]

All the multidotting does not actually require you to watch swp (at least, it's not really much of a dps decrease if it drops before you refresh it anymore), evangelism and ES, same goes for aoe (except SWP part). I think there actually is a major difference between 'just dot' and 'dot if X and Y are up, dot if X is not up but Y is up if there are Z targets' etc etc.

Outside of Dark Archangel, Evangelism was pointless. You stack it, it's up. Shadow Weaving in BC offered more "interactiveness" because it punished you (and your entire raid) for target swapping. You're over-estimating its impact. Second, ES is up because Mind Blast still was high on the priority list during multi-dot scenarios, and more Pains meant more orb generation, often to the point that you couldn't burn them fast enough. These are passives that with the exception of one fight every 3 1/2 tiers really aren't even thought about, let alone actually managed.

[obao98]

I can only say 1 thing about this new patch.

Shadow Priest does not feel like a shadow priest anymore. It just pretty much lost everything that made Spriests cool.

No more passive healing while DPSing.
No more AA.
No more using SW anytime you want to restore mana, or hit something while you were running (yes, you could still glyph for it, but then you lose an important class mechanic SW creating shadow orbs).
No more huge raid heal CD that could save the raid.

Multi dotting is pretty much dead now. DoTs are gone way too fast now, etc, etc.

No point in playing as shadow anymore really.

[Celentes]

Outside of Dark Archangel, Evangelism was pointless. You stack it, it's up. Shadow Weaving in BC offered more "interactiveness" because it punished you (and your entire raid) for target swapping. You're over-estimating its impact. Second, ES is up because Mind Blast still was high on the priority list during multi-dot scenarios, and more Pains meant more orb generation, often to the point that you couldn't burn them fast enough. These are passives that with the exception of one fight every 3 1/2 tiers really aren't even thought about, let alone actually managed.

I actually used to delay MB in multidot scenarios, depending on the amount of targets and the amount of orbs. Sure, t13p4 made it trivial for the most part, but I'd rather p4 is gone than ES is gone. Even if you did cast MB on cd, it is still sort of different than 'just dot'.

[Karfragnor]

Great guide! I had a lot of fun testing out the new shadow changes for the first time tonight. It's very different. I did LFR and I got a lot of enjoyment out of having my bars light up during multi-target fights because of all the procs from DI, FDCL, and DP. It was a little overwhelming when all 3 were flashing at me and i'd occasionally cast the wrong one first, but it was still fun!

[DeiVias]

Multi dotting is pretty much dead now.

0.0

You haven't done a multi dot fight then.

[Kelesti]

I can only say 1 thing about this new patch.

Shadow Priest does not feel like a shadow priest anymore. It just pretty much lost everything that made Spriests cool.
No more passive healing while DPSing.
No more AA.
No more using SW anytime you want to restore mana, or hit something while you were running (yes, you could still glyph for it, but then you lose an important class mechanic SW creating shadow orbs).
No more huge raid heal CD that could save the raid.

Multi dotting is pretty much dead now. DoTs are gone way too fast now, etc, etc.

No point in playing as shadow anymore really.

The passive healing while DPS'ing hasn't really been there since 4.0. Devouring Plague now outheals what Cataclysm's Vampiric Embrace was. Shouldn't be an issue. Plus, VE actually heals for a truck tonne now.

If you glyph shadow word smiley, it actually still keeps its shadow orb generation below 20%. The point is to not let it be an orb generator above 20%, otherwise it's a mandatory mechanic, not so much fun. If you need a button to push without giving up a glyph spot, you can also do what we did prior to 2pc13 and spam Shadow Word: Pain for the instant damage portion (Improved Devouring Plague).

Vampiric Embrace as a 3 minute plays off of the Shadow feel of doing your damage (rather than stopping to channel) to heal the raid through a big huge raid cooldown. Keeps the feel, doesn't plant your feet to the ground, makes a difference, and keeps you in shadowform dps'ing your heart out. Definitely feels like a Shadow Priest.

The only one I haven't touched on is Archangel, which really is something "new" to Shadow, so losing it shouldn't really be iconic as "omg shadow lost its identity". It wasn't a part of Shadow's identity for the first six years, and did okay. And outside of 4pc13, Dark Archangel did what? It restored mana (Vampiric Touch does that now, back to Shadow's identity from TBC), and it increased your Mind Blast and Mind Flay damage, while doing nothing (or worse) for your DoTs. For a DoT based spec, this cooldown is pretty anti-iconic, if you will. Going against pretty much everything that the spec should be good at, for the sake of a few bigger numbers. How this last one can be rectified is letting Mind Blast scale with haste, and therefore make Power Infusion an attractive cooldown for those that are missing the button for on demand burst.


And no, Multi-DoT'ing is not dead at all. Not sure where you got this one from.

[Demetrion]

As I recall correctly, Power Infusion is now priest only and can't be cast on any other member in raid. Blizzard mentioned that they don't want other raid members to demand from priest to spec PI just so they could have it (a rough wording here, it was a huge paragraph).

[Deleted]

Finally tried the new rotation with the new patch. The rotation doesn't necessarily feel easier just more chunky. From what I gathered by DPSing dummy for a couple of minutes it seems we need to more thoughtful about how long our GCD is and incorporating that into our play.

If Mind Blast is about to come off cooldown and you need to refresh SW:Pain soon, you'd cast it when MB has a GCD left on its cooldown If you recast SW:Pain too early, you'll be standing there waiting for MB to be ready. If you cast it too late, you will be leaving MB ready for a short amount of time without casting it. Feels kind of awkward to constantly have to do this. Maybe I am doing it wrong.

Mind Blast, VT and SW:Pain often need to be refreshed/cast at about the same time and it requires you to think ahead and cast one of them before the other. It also seems to be less time to Mind Flay for sure.

[Arlee]

Mind Blast, VT and SW:Pain often need to be refreshed/cast at about the same time and it requires you to think ahead and cast one of them before the other. It also seems to be less time to Mind Flay for sure.

Yes, I noticed that overlap a lot last night. Nearly constantly. Though for me it might have also been because I was using DI instead of ToF and was getting a ton procs (hooray for doting all the things) so I wasn't sure if it was because of that or the timing on the spells is just all very close together.

[Aceso Jenkins]

Mind Blast, VT and SW:Pain often need to be refreshed/cast at about the same time and it requires you to think ahead and cast one of them before the other. It also seems to be less time to Mind Flay for sure.

Yes, completely agree. It seemed if I had my dots on more than two things at once, I was Mind Spiking more than anything else, but wow it hit very hard. I remember some crits in a 5-man were doing 90K+ PER PROC with a baseline in the high 40s. A few times, it would proc so much (4-6 in a row) that I was pulling aggro off the tanks.

It certainly does feel like I'm playing a mage and a warlock at the same time. I don't think it's TERRIBLE in the current state, but it sure feels like I'm juggling a lot more since the DOTs seem to fall off quicker, reducing the amount of 'fill time' with Mind Flay and, instead, Mind Spiking/Blasting.

[Rumex]

So i did a few dummy test on my spriest, to test Single-target dps & Multi Dotting (Just 2 targets). And i was amazed to see Shadow Word: Pain over Vampiric Touch on the damage. And im not even counting the instant damage you now get when you cast SWP, and SWP was still doing like 20% more dmg than VT, 35-40% more damage if we count instant damage. I was just wondering if its intended, kinda use to VT doing the most damage. And should we now cast SWP over VT on fights like Unsleeping and his adds in Black Phase? Always used to just cast VT on all targets and then Mind Sear.