Why Alliance in SoO is bad thing

[Deleted]

Yes, cut the Alliance out of the expansion pack's conclusion and give us absolutely no closure for all Garrosh has done to our faction in cata and mop. That sounds great.

Well, the Horde isn't getting any closure on the shit the Alliance have put them through either. The Horde is just getting closure on itself. The atrocities commited by the Alliance go unpunished. Jaina's captives anyone? Oh, who cares! We'll probably never hear from them again. They'll be forgotten like Mal'ganis in Icecrown.

[Mad_Murdock]

Honestly, to me, that sounds like a mess and an attempt to try and do something new just for the sake of doing something new. And niche? I wouldn't call the Horde and Alliance (or rather factions) in WoW a niche. Keep in mind that WoW is old, from the times where basically all mmorpgs were faction based.

Well, I'm not a PvPer and PvP in this game has zero value to me, so I may view this from a totally different perspective. Looking at Guild wars 2 and what Rift did\tried to do, it seems Factions vs Factions may not really work anymore or like it did. It seems people are wanting bigger World PvP events and less of this little skirmish here and there.

I understand from a story perspective we need to have at least 2 sides fighting with each other, so I'm not talking about ditching faction based altogether. But from just a PvP perspective we shifted away from purely Horde vs Alliance and had more Illidan vs Mal'ganis and they did the America's Army approach, the other team was always the enemy faction and you were always you're own faction. So versus Illidan players, you would be Horde, but they would all appear to be Alliance or even Burning legion for that matter.

Maybe too major of a change for the WoW crowd, but I see other games and maybe the one that someday replaces WoW going that path.

[Mister J]

The Horde CANNOT siege Orgrimmar with just the rebels. There may be several races going against Garrosh, but he's got the entire support of the Kor'kron (and maybe the Dragonmaw), hired Goblin mercenaries and titan-knows what brewing down underneath Orgrimmar. The Darkspear are a small Tribe. They do not have thousands of soldiers to toss at the gates.

The Tauren likely have a larger army, though not by much. The largest force would be the Sindorei and they won't arrive until the last second.

Even with these three forces, the rebels will have a hard time penetrating Orgrimmar's defenses. The Alliance have every reason to want to bring down Garrosh and Vol'jin knows his campaign can't succeed without the help of the Blues.

It doesn't signify the Horde is weak. It signifies the Horde is divided, it's numbers cripple as Garrosh's supporters are in large number.

[Dylis]

Yes, cut the Alliance out of the expansion pack's conclusion and give us absolutely no closure for all Garrosh has done to our faction in cata and mop. That sounds great.

Both sides have an angle to complain about here.

Horde say 'omg we shouldn't need the alliance to overthrow our own corrupt warchief!'

Alliance say 'omg we're just doing the Horde a favor here by giving them back Orgrimmar'

Ultimately though, the moral of the expansion is not to let pride get the better of us, 'proud races must admit they need help,' so of course garrosh becomes a threat neither can defeat alone.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

[Spichora]

He may be "king" of the Alliance but dont forget about Jaina, Garosh head might be not enoigh for her.
What you think?
'Sorry for syntax, english is not my native.

You are very mistaken in Jaina's character. She might have become Garrosh hater but she is not Horde hater. She had diplomatic duty between Alliance and Horde. She had Friendly relations with Baine! Jaina and Thrall are "best friend" guys. Yes when Theremore was destroyed she hated them all and that reflected on her Glowing eyes in Tides of War. But we know in the end her Eyes dont glow and she is on her clear mind again. Yes she still wants Garroshs head, but that was from beginning. Jaina urged Thrall to stop Garrosh until he had done major evil, but noone ever listened. And issue about Sunreavers is totally different.

[-aiko-]

You are very mistaken in Jaina's character. She might have become Garrosh hater but she is not Horde hater. She had diplomatic duty between Alliance and Horde. She had Friendly relations with Baine! Jaina and Thrall are "best friend" guys. Yes when Theremore was destroyed she hated them all and that reflected on her Glowing eyes in Tides of War. But we know in the end her Eyes dont glow and she is on her clear mind again. Yes she still wants Garroshs head, but that was from beginning. Jaina urged Thrall to stop Garrosh until he had done major evil, but noone ever listened. And issue about Sunreavers is totally different.

I think we know two different Jaina's.

- Jaina is no longer friends with Thrall (Tides of War)
- She hates the Horde (her own words: "Once Horde, always Horde")
- Dalaran. Did the Sunreavers deserve it? Maybe. Did she go too far? Yes. Especially the Silver Covenant.

She was clear in mind for a while. Then the Divine Bell. Then Dalaran. Then Anduin. She is far from clear of mind now.

[Deleted]

The main reason both factions raid Orgrimmar is that they won't make a raid for just one faction.

[Spichora]

I think we know two different Jaina's.

- Jaina is no longer friends with Thrall (Tides of War)
- She hates the Horde (her own words: "Once Horde, always Horde")
- Dalaran. Did the Sunreavers deserve it? Maybe. Did she go too far? Yes. Especially the Silver Covenant.

She was clear in mind for a while. Then the Divine Bell. Then Dalaran. Then Anduin. She is far from clear of mind now.

I dont remember her saying Thrall whenever I see you will kill you you bas*ard.
Yes of course she is mad on Horde now. She saw Garrosh's cowardly way to win wars, She saw (TWICE) Sunreavers duplicity. now this on 5.2 against Silver Covenant/Kirin Tor and Sunreaver. Yes she might have gone further, She has disagreement with Lor'themar and blood elves. But cant blame her in purging city.
Its just she is not murderer and she does not hungers for War and wiping Horde from Azeroth. Jaina (and Lor'themar Theron) have "retreated" and avoided clash between Ally and Horde at the Isle of thunder (with help of Taran Zhu), means that neither faction seeks for war. So she cant be war provoker/starter. and I really hope Blood elves leave Horde one day and join their old Allies

[Deleted]

What are you talking about? The Alliance, with the goodness of its heart has decided to intervene in your conflict to help the poor people of the Horde, to save them from oppression. We are going to dispose a dictator with WMD he uses on his people, you should cheer for us!

In short: We're bringing democracy to y'all! Yeeehaaaa!

Oh, in return, we'll take those oil patches you have in Stranglethorn, thank you.

[GennGreymane]

there better be a after ww2 berlin scenario with org

ally side and horde side TAKE THAT FUCKING CITY FROM THOSE SAVAGES

[SherbertLand]

Do you think the Horde is enlisting the Alliance to help? No. Alliance has their owns motives for killing Garrosh.

[stomination]

Undercity says hi again.. Same thing. Horde problem; Alliance fixes it

Alliance killed a undead scientist. Horde killed a demon before he summoned a bigger demon.

[Florena]

Well, the Horde isn't getting any closure on the shit the Alliance have put them through either. The Horde is just getting closure on itself. The atrocities commited by the Alliance go unpunished. Jaina's captives anyone? Oh, who cares! We'll probably never hear from them again. They'll be forgotten like Mal'ganis in Icecrown.

That may well get addressed.

What grievances have the horde not yet addressed? Southern barrens invasion? You blew up the dwarf fort there and killed the alliance commander that was resonsible for Taurajo. Silverpine? Sylvannas forced the Alliance to retreat through a hostage. Tell me what is the Horde equivelant of Theramore? Where is our justice for Southshore?

The prisoners in Dalaran are a recent development, and guess what, that may well get resolved in 5.4. Garrosh has done too much to the Alliance for us not to have a hand in his fall.

[Totle]

Few quick things. The Tauren *are* joining in (Baine 5.3 soundfiles), as are the Blood Elves as soon as they are done at the Isle of Thunder (Vol'jin 5.3 soundfiles). And the Bilgewater aren't as loyal to Garrosh as he thinks (Goblin Foreman 5.3 soundfiles). That said, yes, the Alliance is needed, which should give the Alliance playesr some sense of "Oh yeah, they need US to deal with their shit - BROFIST TIME!"... Alas it seems that they just continue to moan.[COLOR="red"]

My point was that the Tauren alone wouldn't have been enough alongside the remnants of the Trolls to start a proper rebellion. As a result, they would have had backdoor meetings without actually going to war against Garrosh due to lack of force.

The Blood Elves as well are dealing with internal conflicts and if there was a chance that the rebellion would fail, they would sooner stay out of it than join.

Because the Alliance is joining in against Garrosh, the revolution has an actual chance to succeed and that is what is drawing the outliers (tauren, belves, and prob gobos) to the cause.

Everyone hates Garrosh, but everyone's waiting for someone else to make the first move before joining in. In this case, it's the Alliance.

[Millie]

Well, the Horde isn't getting any closure on the shit the Alliance have put them through either.

Yeah, because we played backseat to you getting every ounce of the story for 4 years.

[jealouspirate]

Well, if it's any consolation, it's not great for the Alliance either. Instead of having our own story we get to tag along with the Horde and actually help it become stronger.... just so they can keep fighting us next expansion I'm sure.

[Florena]

Yeah, because we played backseat to you getting every ounce of the story for 4 years.

Not really, vanilla/bc/wrath were fine. Cata got ugly and MoP has the potential to swing either way in siege of org if not done properly.

[Alienshroom]

The same reason Vol'jin could not apperently take care of the 4.1 troll problems with just Horde forces.

[Kayb]

Actually, OP, I believe that if they're capable of asking for help, then it serves only to show the true strength behind the Horde. The ability to see past themselves and ask for help is a far braver act than being all macho macho and wanting to deal with it themselves.

[Florena]

I wonder how much actual cooperation there will be between the two. It seems that in 5.3, we're not working directly with the horde except for a small part of it. (Kosak phraes it as being 'like one quest.') I wonder if the alliance and horde forces will coordinate during the siege, or work seperately like Undercity.