12 year old MI boy charged as adult with murder, stabs 9 year old.

[Crissi]

minority 12 year old gets charged with murder. Rich white kids gets off due to affluenza. News at 11.

[Deleted]

'Murica, fuck yeah.

You have the strangest justice system in the world. Yes, but we can all assume the real reason for this is race based, as most American justice is just about the racial divide. Largest prison population in the world, clearly justice is overworked in America...

[Wells]

Racial issues aside, I'd be more inclined to take this whole trying children as adults thing more seriously if there was any functional way to gain access to all your rights as a citizen at an early age.

[Spectral]

Your frame of reference is bizarre to me. If we look at an action, in this case committing a serious crime, and see that black children are systematically treated more harshly than white kids how is it weird to point that out in extreme cases, such as trying a child as an adult before he's even solidly into puberty?

The part where this specific kid stabbed another kid to death makes it not a great example, to say the least. If we were talking about a graffiti vandal or something, there might be a point to be made there.

[teddytous]

Racial issues aside, I'd be more inclined to take this whole trying children as adults thing more seriously if there was any functional way to gain access to all your rights as a citizen at an early age.

We try illegal immigrants for murder... regardless of their rights as citizens. Not sure what protecting the public from a threat has to do with an individuals rights or lack their of.

[Wells]

The part where this specific kid stabbed another kid to death makes it not a great example, to say the least. If we were talking about a graffiti vandal or something, there might be a point to be made there.

Of course what he did was heinous but I'm not sure how that is relevant to my point. Being black gets you tougher treatment, and that includes being far more likely to be tried as an adult. Acting like this particular event exists outside that framework does the discussion a disservice.

We try illegal immigrants for murder... regardless of their rights as citizens.

Not sure what this is supposed to be saying.

[teddytous]

Of course what he did was heinous but I'm not sure how that is relevant to my point. Being black gets you tougher treatment, and that includes being far more likely to be tried as an adult. Acting like this particular event exists outside that framework does the discussion a disservice.



Not sure what this is supposed to be saying.

You seem to be trying to establish the governments ability to prosecute someone as an adult (the primary difference being a harsher sentencing involving being removed from the general population, for the purpose of protecting said general population) with the ability to gain rights normally granted to adults (can only assume you are referring voting, or some other rights granted at higher ages). My point was no such link exists, as evident by the fact that we try other people who do not posses said rights, again, due rather to the rights of individuals put at risk by their presence in the population.

[Wells]

You seem to be trying to establish the governments ability to prosecute someone as an adult (the primary difference being a harsher sentencing involving being removed from the general population, for the purpose of protecting said general population) with the ability to gain rights normally granted to adults (can only assume you are referring voting, or some other rights granted at higher ages). My point was no such link exists, as evident by the fact that we try other people who do not posses said rights, again, due rather to the rights of individuals put at risk by their presence in the population.

My point was that if we strip the legal status of childhood from kids who do very bad things its only rational to allow kids who have demonstrated sufficient mental abilities to have their rights as due adult citizens as well.

That we don't says to me that its less thinking they're really the equivalent of adults for the given issue and more about just wanting to remove the barriers to punishing them as harshly as we'd like.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Of course what he did was heinous but I'm not sure how that is relevant to my point. Being black gets you tougher treatment, and that includes being far more likely to be tried as an adult. Acting like this particular event exists outside that framework does the discussion a disservice.



Not sure what this is supposed to be saying.

Are blacks treated worse, or are whites treated better? I mean what should the default be? Should more white 12 year old murderers be tried as adults, or should they relax the punishment for blacks. I like a precedence, regardless of race.

[Wells]

Are blacks treated worse, or are whites treated better?

A meaningless distinction here. Whites get preferential treatment.

[-aiko-]

Yeah that threads regarding criminal punishments on MMO-C turn into a massive revenge boner circle jerk.

Yeah I'm going with this. I don't expect any good discussion coming from this.

Either way, here is my opinion: trying a 12 year old as an adult should never happen.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

A meaningless distinction here. Whites get preferential treatment.

No, its not meaningless. You're ignoring the rest of my post and the main question. Should any minor get treated more like the "affluenza" case, or should minors get treated more like this case, murdering someone with intent and guilt = tried as an adult?

Please see the forest for the trees Wells.

[Crissi]

No, its not meaningless. You're ignoring the rest of my post and the main question. Should any minor get treated more like the "affluenza" case, or should minors get treated more like this case, murdering someone with intent and guilt = tried as an adult?

Please see the forest for the trees Wells.

Or possibly find a middle ground?

[Wells]

No, its not meaningless. You're ignoring the rest of my post and the main question. Should any minor get treated more like the "affluenza" case, or should minors get treated more like this case, murdering someone with intent and guilt = tried as an adult?

Please see the forest for the trees Wells.

I see no reason to arbitrarily strip children of their legal status as children after they do something really bad.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Or possibly find a middle ground?

Thats really what I am trying to get at, even though Wells is dismissive as normal.

- - - Updated - - -

I see no reason to arbitrarily strip children of their legal status as children after they do something really bad.

So no matter what, no matter what age, a legal minor should never be tried as an adult?

[Wells]

So no matter what, no matter what age, a legal minor should never be tried as an adult?

If we're going to create hard legal lines as to when you get your full rights as an adult citizen that cannot be lowered I see no reason there should not be a hard immovable line on when you can be tried as an adult.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If we're going to create hard legal lines as to when you get your full rights as an adult citizen that cannot be lowered I see no reason there should not be a hard immovable line on when you can be tried as an adult.

So a guy who is 17 and 11/12 years of age decides to murder and dissect a room full of kindergarten kids, having written his whole plan into a blog months ahead of time. He should be tried as a minor?

Get real man. I know the disparity is awful, but we should have laws and fail safes to prevent that.

[Tierbook]

I'll be honest win I saw this thread I thought, white on white crime, then i saw the pic of the kid of stabbed the other and automatically assumed he was the victim and the stabber was white. The last thought i had was black on white crime at this age. Granted I do remember in 2nd grade a black kid punched me the stomach for saying i would tell on him for telling me to shut up, because that was like a curse word back then.

[Wells]

So a guy who is 17 and 11/12 years of age decides to murder and dissect a room full of kindergarten kids, having written his whole plan into a blog months ahead of time. He should be tried as a minor?

Get real man. I know the disparity is awful, but we should have laws and fail safes to prevent that.

le sighe

If you want to play this pants on head retarded game I can too. Should a super genius with an IQ of 200 with a degree in political science not get to vote because he's 17 and 11/12 years of age?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

le sighe

If you want to play this pants on head retarded game I can too. Should a super genius with an IQ of 200 with a degree in political science not get to vote because he's 17 and 11/12 years of age?

Its not really a retarded game Wells. I was originally questioning you about how to fix the disparity, but you said minors shouldn't be tried as adults because they are minors. Doesn't really seem like you were answering my question, more like dancing around the part where you think age lines are arbitrary.