Blizzard: Wintergrasp was epic; Tol Barad took wrong direction

[rda]

I play both, and I don't see the issue, as Ashram is both capped and CRZ.

Neither capping nor CRZ ensure balance in numbers unless the number of players who'd like to Ashran is vastly larger than the number of players who can do so because of the cap (won't happen because Ashran is an all-day event). Equal numbers have to be enforced.

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If you got premade group of 5 PvPers on your side on TB, you were able t win it easily.

Unless you face a semi-premade of 40. Happened all the time on some realms. :-) But wasn't very fun. :-/

[Wildtree]

The only way to fix this is to enforce equal numbers by making the faction that has more players wanting to join sit in queues. Cross-realm or not

That was exactly the mechanic used for Tol Barad....

Server imbalance:
Alliance had 20 ppl queue
Horde had 200 ppl queue

At battle start horde had 20 ppl gated in against the 20 alliance..

[Deleted]

I never liked Wintergrasp. It was too much focused on vehicles and the fight was so unbalanced on my server. I was playing on horde side and the horde were so unpopulated so alliance always won.

[AeneasBK]

Wintergrasp worked on balanced servers, tenacity was okay for a little discrepency, but the 500%+ individuals were a bit much

Tol Barad worked on medium to low pop servers. The battle was awesome, had loads of great rucks there, but it wasn't suited for massive team play so much as 20-a-side for more intimate encounters.

[Wildtree]

The Horde have more players who are into PVP than the Alliance. It's not a legend, there were numbers.

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Realmpop.com, for example.

That's totally inconclusive.....
There are heaps of PVE only players on PVP servers. I've played years on such servers, and the amount of serious - normal pvp oriented players there is only marginally larger than that on PVE realms.
As much as there are PVP Players on PVE realms. People play on various realms for various reasons. The realm type is often not the very reason why people are there.

Contrary to the statement Horde has more players in PVP is the theory that Alliance has more PVP Players, whereas Horde has more PVE players, caused by the imbalance of the racial traits. The horde racial traits are more beneficial for PVE raiding, while the alliance has better pvp traits, foremost the human traits trumping every other race on that aspect.

[Deleted]

And to show what they have learned, they're making a zone with no destructibles, no true end-goal, no vehicles and quite cramped? Yea, I can sure see how they learned from Tol Barad *sarcasm*



Wintergrasp was superior in every aspect to Tol Barad. And now that they can make CRZ, they can make bigger epic battles by bringing in people from different servers. You were assaulting a giant fortress while the other guys defended it. You could totally destroy said fortress with machines of war or defend them with the turrets. Can you do the same in Ashran?

[rda]

That was exactly the mechanic used for Tol Barad....

Server imbalance:
Alliance had 20 ppl queue
Horde had 200 ppl queue

At battle start horde had 20 ppl gated in against the 20 alliance..

Yes. And they seem to be saying it won't be like that anymore. Which is why I am worried.

[Wildtree]

WG vs TB.....

There's also a huge visual difference.. The bright and light colored WG looked much fresher, felt a lot opener than the dark and almost depressing feeling environment of TB.
I would argue that there is a chance how WG gets favored by many from the aspect of color psychology alone already.
From the game play both were great and epic battles at times, and both were clusterfucks of nightmares at times.

[rda]

That's totally inconclusive.....

Read up the thread, will you. I am not saying it's PVP servers primarily populated by Horde that means there are more Horde players who are into PVP. There were other numbers.

[Wildtree]

Yes. And they seem to be saying it won't be like that anymore. Which is why I am worried.

Well..... there's a side effect to it that affects players of the larger faction..
The battle draws near. You want it, because you also want the optional PVE boss there and the dailies.. You get into the queue, and don't do anything big, to be rdy when the call comes.. And there it is... Time for battle..... FUCK YOU RNG.. I am not in... I am doomed to remain in the stand by queue now.
That's fucked up too from that aspect, and if it happens to you times and again, at some point you just say fuck it. Not gonna bother anymore.
It's all in all incredibly difficult to create an ever and all pleasing environment.

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Read up the thread, will you. I am not saying it's PVP servers primarily populated by Horde that means there are more Horde players who are into PVP. There were other numbers.

I was reading the thread.......
Hence why I said that the claim "more people on horde side play active pvp" is a claim that lacks any proof.
realmpop does not have such stats filtered out at hand. I use that source myself for years. I know how good and how bad it is. On the bad side, they do keep track on toons that haven't been played in ages. Their stats are too somewhat flawed. The real figures could only be provided by Blizzard itself.

[Reavyn]

I disliked WG because of the focus on vehicles. Vehicles in WoW feel retarded to me personally. Exception being Flame Leviathan, because you had to do more then drive up to a wall and spam shit until either the vehicle or the wall broke. Not to mention the constant graveyard camping during unbalanced games.

I disliked TB because it was a glorified battleground. And a bad zerg-fest one at that. I can see the reasoning that Blizzard has with that one. I prefer even WG to this pile of horse crap.

But what I hated the most was the fact that PvE content was locked away behind PvP content. Now, I'm neither a pure PvP player nor a pure PvE player, but after a few weeks it started to piss me off to no end that PvE content was locked untill our faction won a round. As an officer in a guild at that time, responsible for organizing raids, it was just annoying as all hell. Especially because our raid team wasn't available 24/7 and our server was usually not exactly in favor of our faction in terms of WG/TB during our raid times. Ugh... Fuck gating PvE content with PvP.

[rda]

I was reading the thread.......
Hence why I said that the claim "more people on horde side play active pvp" is a claim that lacks any proof.
realmpop does not have such stats filtered out at hand. I use that source myself for years. I know how good and how bad it is. On the bad side, they do keep track on toons that haven't been played in ages. Their stats are too somewhat flawed. The real figures could only be provided by Blizzard itself.

Well, it's just that *you* haven't seen anything on the subject, that's all. I am telling you that *there are* stats, including from Blizzard, that show that there are more Horde players who queue for BGs / arenas than the Alliance. If I manage to find links, I will post them.

Some of the easy things I can link right away:

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/443824979314884608
^^ "The worst region has 55% horde queuing for bgs vs 45% alliance. This is queue data not realm data."

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...lue-Tweets-DLC
^^ Horde win everything except IoC / AV, because they don't queue for them. You can say that the Alliance don't queue for things other than IoC / AV, but which of these BGs are real PVP and which are mindless zergs? Right.

As I said, there's more, if I manage to find links, I will post them.

[randomnamegenerator16]

Both Wintergrasp and Tol Barad were awful. Nothing beats good ol' Arathi Basin.

[Mercos]

Totally agree with Blizzard on this one. I loved WG, hated TB. I am a big fan of vehicles and destructible buildings. I was hoping WG was the beginning of more RTS elements in the game. Unfortunately, they bailed on this with TB and just made it a straight zerg that was very hard to win. Whereas in WG the attacking team almost always won, it was the complete opposite in TB. They couldn't quite reach a formula where both the offensive and defensive side had an equal chance to win the game.

The statement makes the direction of Ashran puzzling. Ashran seems to be much more like TB than WG. There are no destructible buildings or vehicles. Its basically just a zerg. It may end up being more fun than TB due to side objectives and power ups, but it is not similar to WG.

[Deleted]

Your remarks seem a little off. You call TB a "horrific scrum and a zerg that seemed to leave little room for individual prowess or team strategy." ..

Are you sure you played WG? It was a zerg if I ever saw one. Get Vehicles>drive at wall>fire over and over>win. While the defenders would just mass up and spam AOEs...

WG was great. The handicap system actually made it fun even if you were massively outpop'd (as horde was on my server, we had at most 20% of the alliance pop!). Sure it was hard to defend against a massive zerg, but it could be done, and you could attack.
Games were fun and fluid. whereas Tb was just one giant circlejerk.