Assassination Vs. Sub - PvP!

[Deleted]

Hey there fellow Rogues :-)

As I recently picked up PvP'ing again after a break since early WOTLK I have a few concerns what spec to go with here.

I've tested out the two specs stated above ^^ and I've come to the conclution that Assassination has a better DPS output but less control of your enemy as to where Sub has less DPS but more control over your enemy.

I'm currently rolling with Assassination for PvP as I have the feeling I'm not trying to break down a wall with a smoked fish. Sub just doesn't do enough damage if you ask me. (Currently half PvE/PvP geared)

So my question is, what do you think?
And do you think Sub would become more viable burst/DPS as I get more gear?

Best regards and thanks in advance!

[slime]

It seems Sub always ends up being the better PvP spec eventually, but early on maybe Assass is just pulling ahead in damage because it scales better with lower gear. But what do I know, I'm rolling combat pvp again and loving it. The pvp set bonuses are crazy... they seem like they should be PvE set bonuses to be honest. 2 extra ticks of Killing Spree? wow, that's huge! not to mention 3 combo points for successful interrupts. I've been meaning to switch specs and see what the other two you are talking about get as their set bonuses.

What I'm finding very fun and interesting in WoD pvp is the talent choices. I didn't think I would like the "From above" tier 100 talent, but it ends up playing very strong as a finisher in pvp. Also, I might be the only one but shureiken toss is current giving everyone headaches when they think they'll just fall back and kite the rogue... nice to have a ranged attack that actually puts a little heat on. I might mix Deadly throw in too and see how that pans out.

[Packing an i5]

Sub will have insane burst as usual once conquest gear comes out factor that in with 30 seconds shaved off the vanish cooldown and 2 seconds tacked on Dance.. It will be Sub as usual for PVP Rogue spec.

I dont see how mutilate can fill any niche unless the damage just gets insane. Sub will scale better as always because of their agility bonus even though it was nerfed, Sub has always been more gear dependent.

A feral druid/Warrior or Dk is still probably a better melee than an assasination rogue on an arena team.

My rogue isnt 100 yet i Just hit 95 tonight Im leveling Mutilate and I plan on playing it in pvp testing out how it fares with gear + Glyph of disappearance+ Venom Zest and the leveling perks.

[Gentlepenguin]

idk man, been trying everything. always feels like i'm walking among juggernauts. ferals, glad warriors, dks, ret pallies, any healer. full 675 geared as well. sub still takes setup for burst meanwhile everyone else is frontloaded. i find myself kiting and restealthing instead of being able to go toe to toe with cooldowns. we're definitely not 1v1 champs atm.

[Deleted]

I prefer Sub by far. More control over the fight, more controlled burst.

[Gentlepenguin]

but srs, i backstab for 5k crits. against people with 330k hp.

[Karry]

Yeah that's the advantage of Assassination, all your skill basically hit hard enough to have constant pressure. Sub still is better at burst. But when you aren't dancing on someone you barely do dmg. Hell, when you arent dancing, rupture is like your number one dmg dealer.

[willtron]

I'm using sub and it's good. Keep them bleeding and locked down.

How I like my women.

[Bitethe]

idk man, been trying everything. always feels like i'm walking among juggernauts. ferals, glad warriors, dks, ret pallies, any healer. full 675 geared as well. sub still takes setup for burst meanwhile everyone else is frontloaded. i find myself kiting and restealthing instead of being able to go toe to toe with cooldowns. we're definitely not 1v1 champs atm.

Couldn't have said it better.

I don't mind healers but so many melee dps are just too stronk. Playing against Alliance (where like every 1/2 people is a Ret paladin) is also difficult.

[Deleted]

Mostly played sub so far, what can you say, outside of dance you deal pretty much no damage. The amount of control you wield is addicting though.
Whenever I spec assassination I feel like I could faceroll my keyboard like the rest of the melee heroes and deal double the damage of a sub rogue. There is literally no effort required to deal solid amounts of damage all over the place.

[Rhodianni]

Sub playstyle is awesome, the control is amazing but that's nothing when ( once again ) people can just burst you in a stun. It's too easy to stop the first Dance ( CC, Big Cd's, Immunities ) and while the control we get is good, we just don't have enough damage ( and survivability ) to last until the second one. We also don't come near the level of healing of some hybrid classes ( Even Locks and Mages have some insane burst healing compared to us ), so you slowly fall behind as the healing debuff starts to stack up. The (4)pc is also pretty shitty. I hate this "feint" focused gameplay that they are pushing us in to thanks to that talent.

I started winning a lot more once I switched to Assassination, I just dish out a ton of damage and the combat "rotation" is super simple because we don't have to worry about SnD. The free 5 Combos once you Vanish and MfD allows you some sort of control, nowhere near Sub but the trade off in damage is huge. I started enjoying my Rogue a lot more in PvP as Assassiantion ( Sub is still my favorite for PVE ).

I just got myself some PvP Sword so I'll probably switch to Combat and try it out for a bit and see where it goes.

[Karry]

^ Totally agree. For me Sub will always be my favorite. But atm Assassination is just too good to pass up. with sub it feels like I barely tickle them while a DK can wreak me in 10 seconds and health through my entire dance in 1-2 globals and then he just does 2x the dmg I do in dance while just facerolling the keyboard.

Another big reason why I dont like sub atm is the 4set. That 4set basically screams "Faint and run away, feint and run away", that's it. The 4set for the true PvP spec of the rogue class is an enhanced fkn FEINT, let that sink in for a bit. The muti one is way better and more offensive and actually changes up your gameplay a bit. While the 4set of sub is just the same as it's always been because you cant spam feint to deal more dmg as you lose a global and the dmg isnt even that big to matter.

Now I know that Sub scales better with gear than Muti so witih conquest gear and going forward to season 2, it should get better and better. But we'll see. I still can't fathom how they made the decision to give us such a weak 4set. Almost any other bonus would've been better than giving us even more incentive to play a feint-spam style.

[slime]

idk man, been trying everything. always feels like i'm walking among juggernauts. ferals, glad warriors, dks, ret pallies, any healer. full 675 geared as well. sub still takes setup for burst meanwhile everyone else is frontloaded. i find myself kiting and restealthing instead of being able to go toe to toe with cooldowns. we're definitely not 1v1 champs atm.

But this is how it always is. You have to be the little hobbit that sneeks between all these giants and brings down that leader giant.. and then their team falls apart... you will never be like a tough melee, and now that we don't have disarm - if you aren't bleeding the melee you better be vanishing.

[ThomasJPopp]

Sub. Burst damage is what you need to successfully get the kill (Shadow Dance + Ambush Spam).

By the way, when PvP gearing: Multistrike > Agility > Crit > Versatility > Mastery > Haste

[Deleted]

But this is how it always is. You have to be the little hobbit that sneeks between all these giants and brings down that leader giant.. and then their team falls apart... you will never be like a tough melee, and now that we don't have disarm - if you aren't bleeding the melee you better be vanishing.

Yea lets bleed all those melee with their extremely potent self heals.

Its assassination or go home for me currently.

[Packing an i5]

Its really just Vendetta. Its so awful thats why sub will always be number 1. THey would need to dump vendetta for just more passive damage baked in or some better cooldown.

If vendetta was not a debuff but a buff on the rogue it would be so much better Id also prefer it only last 10 seconds but be on a 1 minute cooldown.

Our boring talents and vendetta keep me from playing my rogue. I know I could make it work if we had a real cooldown to use as assassination in pvp.

[Tedj]

Sub. Burst damage is what you need to successfully get the kill (Shadow Dance + Ambush Spam).

By the way, when PvP gearing: Multistrike > Agility > Crit > Versatility > Mastery > Haste

No idea where you read that crit > versa > mastery for subt, but you're dead wrong bro. Evis with mastery increased damage is king in PvP burst.

[Karry]

For Sub there are 2 builds mostly. A complete mastery based sub with lower crit and multi strike which is more based around burst and having luck that your finishers crit. OR you can go for a more balanced build with crit and multistrike. Versatility is pretty bad and doesnt give enough of a boost to warrant taking it crit, mastery or multistrike. So yeah those are the 2 builds basically.

Also, at first I didnt really like the 2set that we have but now that I've played some BGs and got full geared, I must say, since healers are usually the main target and since they nerfed the instant heals a bit, the 2 set is actually really nice. Sure the combo points may overlap sometimes but they dont usually if u manage your energy and not just spam everytime u have 40-50 energy.

[Deleted]

No idea where you read that crit > versa > mastery for subt, but you're dead wrong bro. Evis with mastery increased damage is king in PvP burst.

Indeed, can't go wrong with full mastery. (also improves your SnD etc ofc)

[Wynta]

Am I the only newb that went anticipation with assassination? With MfD I am constantly losing out on CP 2-3 at a time.