Disc toping the meters? - Allways.

[Shibba]

FWIW, I heal 10-man Ulduar on my alt priest (well geared in mostly 213/219 gear). And have found raid shielding to be quite effective at times. I don't run an absorb meter, and never really cared about topping healing meters. It just doesn't mean the same thing as DPS topping meters (which still has to be taken w/ a grain of salt).

Given proper timing, I can get a shield on the whole raid just before tantrum, negating about the first half of it. I can get a shield on the whole raid before Kologarn's "Oblivion" shockwave attack, almost completely nullifying it. For mimiron phase 2, i pretty much just chain-shielded, and it seemed quite useful.

If my shield absorbs 6k damage, and costs 600ish mana, I'm getting just short of 10 health per mana (if I don't get a rapture proc). When holy spec'd, my Circle of healing heals for about 2300 on 5 targets (or 11,500 total) for about 930 mana, this amounts to 12.3 health per mana, assuming none of it overheals. Shields only overheal if they're not consumed within 30 seconds, this is unlikely if you use them at appropriate times. CoH, however, can overheal by quite a lot, so it's efficiency is diminished by a bit. I'm not trying to say disc shield spam is better than CoH, just the the efficiency isn't terribly far behind, and it can really help by keeping the other healers from getting "behind" on healing when half your raid is sitting at half health.

My priest is only my alt, so I'm not up to speed on all the ins and outs of priest healing. But people don't die, I don't have mana issues, and bosses are going down.

Note: we always have a paladin for tank healing, so I've been trying this because I hate holy spec.

@OP: I think you'd get a better response if you'd get off this "disc priests aren't healers" trip. Shields are heals too, just backwards ones, and in many, many encounters, disc priests should be casting heals, not only shields. Penance is amazing HPS, especially with borrowed time up, and flash heal isn't too shabby either. Sometimes, direct healing is simply more useful. Maybe you should change your motto to "PW:S is a powerful raid heal." Comparing a disc priest to a healer is like comparing an affliction lock to a destro lock. They both serve the same purpose, they just go about it in a different manner, using mostly different spells.

true, yet the stigma of discs being MT healers only is so strong that i have to use some heavy weight "figure of speech" just to get through for some stuborn ppl who make sour lifes harder coz of it.

P.S.
Dont forget the glyph heal from pws spam
I agree that in some occasions direct healing will be better like 2nd half of tantrum when i start PoH on heavy damaged raid after almost all have WS. never said ONLY use it just MAINLY.

[Grakos]

So? The same thing would happen if you take all the healign done from over healed paladin spells, they would be top by ALOT. But they arent, and neither are disc priests. I know i will never be beat by a disc priest, even if he "thinks" hes winning. But in that case i would most likely let him have his moment if glory and just be all:

"Yea.....ok...."

I always say disc priests are useless because if there was a hunter pet that could give tanks a PW shield, they would be replaced.

"Raid sheilding" could work in 10 mans, seeing as its easy to keep up healing buffs with only 10 people there. I can keep rejuvenation up on everyone for an entire boss fight, but thats when im bored and theres nothing left to do but spam like crazy.

Plus healing meters track the healing done, so you might be usefull, but you will never have the most healing done.

[exochaft]

i never said i only spam shields regardles... its only 70% of my casts... so i do use other abilities.
Should i use other abilities more like u suggest? definetly, and believe to me when i say i trying to perfect it.

So for all those who go and worry about "you waste mana you will run oom": Speak for your own setup. I cant spam shields any faster and i dont have mana issues, if go low i use my CD's.

Mana, I waste it and im loving it coz it never ends!!! just use you hymn and fiend properly and drink the pot if all fails.

I think part of the problem is perspective here. I'm coming from a perspective of clearing through Yogg on 10 and 25man with my priest and doing several hardmodes. You, Shibba, from your armory have not. I see up to Freya on 10man and Hodir on 25man. I can see how you won't have any mana issues so far. None of the fights you've done have damage that will greatly exceed your PW:shield on the raid (other than the MT). Once you start getting to later fights and hard modes, if all you're doing is tossing out PW:shields for 70% or more of the time, your other healers are going to go OOM unless you're stacking a ton of healers (if you are, good luck getting through some of the hard modes unless your DPS is through the roof in the raid). From the logs I've seen, you were running 8 healers, which is actually a lot. The DPS you are packing isn't really that spectacular in itselfe, though there seems to be several good sustained DPSers if they lived through the fights. And the the number of deaths... well, frankly for what ya cleared through, there's a ton.

That's just a bunch of random things, but it's more for painting the picture of what is really going on. If mana isn't an issue, why are people dying and the raid not progressing? Sure, people can die for a number of reasons, but having 8 healers should negate the majority of them if mana is no object. This could be the other healers not pulling their weight, but perhaps instead of throwing a couple PW:shields on people not taking damage in the very near future, go on ahead and heal those people about to die? Again, just because you can prevent damage doesn't mean you should. If heals are not the issue, I sincerely hope it is enrage timers.

The watered-down version of the post: "Gratz, you prevented a ton of damage and never have mana issues, but the raid still wiped from lack of heals. Spend less time preventing damage and focus more on topping people off if you're wanting to be a raid healer, and you might progress further into content get more more phat lewts."

[Shibba]

So? The same thing would happen if you take all the healign done from over healed paladin spells, they would be top by ALOT. But they arent, and neither are disc priests. I know i will never be beat by a disc priest, even if he "thinks" hes winning. But in that case i would most likely let him have his moment if glory and just be all:

"Yea.....ok...."

I always say disc priests are useless because if there was a hunter pet that could give tanks a PW shield, they would be replaced.

"Raid sheilding" could work in 10 mans, seeing as its easy to keep up healing buffs with only 10 people there. I can keep rejuvenation up on everyone for an entire boss fight, but thats when im bored and theres nothing left to do but spam like crazy.

Plus healing meters track the healing done, so you might be usefull, but you will never have the most healing done.

lol just lol did u even read the logs? overhealing pally? pffft let me guess u think that it counts the potential absorbs and not the actual damage that it took...
well here is the secret, pssst... dont tell any one, but the logs show how much damage was absorbed and not how much could have been absorbed. but keep it quiet between youo and me ok?

and about that you will never be beaten by disc priest well thats coz you god all mighty, cant do nothing with that argument, since you are raiding with heavy spammer disc and he is way low behind you and ofc you HAVE the logs to show it to us...

[Shibba]

I think part of the problem is perspective here. I'm coming from a perspective of clearing through Yogg on 10 and 25man with my priest and doing several hardmodes. You, Shibba, from your armory have not. I see up to Freya on 10man and Hodir on 25man. I can see how you won't have any mana issues so far. None of the fights you've done have damage that will greatly exceed your PW:shield on the raid (other than the MT). Once you start getting to later fights and hard modes, if all you're doing is tossing out PW:shields for 70% or more of the time, your other healers are going to go OOM unless you're stacking a ton of healers (if you are, good luck getting through some of the hard modes unless your DPS is through the roof in the raid). From the logs I've seen, you were running 8 healers, which is actually a lot. The DPS you are packing isn't really that spectacular in itselfe, though there seems to be several good sustained DPSers if they lived through the fights. And the the number of deaths... well, frankly for what ya cleared through, there's a ton.

That's just a bunch of random things, but it's more for painting the picture of what is really going on. If mana isn't an issue, why are people dying and the raid not progressing? Sure, people can die for a number of reasons, but having 8 healers should negate the majority of them if mana is no object. This could be the other healers not pulling their weight, but perhaps instead of throwing a couple PW:shields on people not taking damage in the very near future, go on ahead and heal those people about to die? Again, just because you can prevent damage doesn't mean you should. If heals are not the issue, I sincerely hope it is enrage timers.

The watered-down version of the post: "Gratz, you prevented a ton of damage and never have mana issues, but the raid still wiped from lack of heals. Spend less time preventing damage and focus more on topping people off if you're wanting to be a raid healer, and you might progress further into content get more more phat lewts."

we were 6 healers and some offspec 7 the 8 is retri pally...

as for your other arguments youre right my perspective is pure based on my experience so far, will have to wait and see how it goes later on.
but explain to me this, if i go less shields and more healing type of disc then my hps will get be signifficaly lower... that means if i shield less and heal more the tottal outcome will be much less than 70% shields spam.
i mean i do great with shields and not so great with other heals, so how doing more not so great heals will help? im still thinking that main issue with this current log is lack of healing by other "real" healers and not me not healing enough, there is no way i can heal same ammount like i can prevent.

having disc to lower big portion of the damage cooped with other competent healer to top the raiders is the way to go imho

[Arkive]

Anyone who argues that mitigating dmg isn't the same as healing is either retarded or desperately wanting to own the meters. A shield absorbing 4k of dmg is the exact same thing as that 4k of dmg landing and someone healing it. Zero difference I just don't get why anyone would argue otherwise.

Frankly, if you can get by spamming PWS on your raiders, then great. As a resto shaman who is often helping top anyone and everyone off, having a little less stress on the raid can often make the difference (especially in situations where all the healers are on emergency tank duty, like Ignis).

That said, if you can be as effective as your showing using one spell 99% of the time, then you can likely expect a nerf

[Squishypants]

I see the point your making in your original post but the way you present yourself and your ideas is rather unappealing. The fact is the strategy your proposing is relatively new but it is accepted by progression guilds.

The role of the Disc priest in the raid, in my opinion and many other's has changed to mostly raid wide mitigation WITH burst heals on the tanks. You can't spam shield and nothing else and be considered pro as there is a place for every spell in your arsenal but in general shield spam is viable.

I know the pain as well because I know that when we do hardmodes it's best for the raid to go disc, but then when people see me going from #1 to last on effective healing I get tells questioning my decision.

Thankfully World of Logs has been updated and does work properly to count for absorption, there are minor flaws but what you see is pretty accurate. WWS is absolutely terrible atm. It's not accurate for several reasons one being that it counts all overheal from shamans totems as effective healing.

Your log was not a good log to post because as others have pointed out, those are not pro players. For the skeptics check this log of a Freya Knockx3 kill by Fusion a top world guild.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/Z...=12372&e=12911

[Shibba]

Anyone who argues that mitigating dmg isn't the same as healing is either retarded or desperately wanting to own the meters. A shield absorbing 4k of dmg is the exact same thing as that 4k of dmg landing and someone healing it. Zero difference I just don't get why anyone would argue otherwise.

Frankly, if you can get by spamming PWS on your raiders, then great. As a resto shaman who is often helping top anyone and everyone off, having a little less stress on the raid can often make the difference (especially in situations where all the healers are on emergency tank duty, like Ignis).

That said, if you can be as effective as your showing using one spell 99% of the time, then you can likely expect a nerf

^^
finaly some one who understand me from the "other healer" point of view...
as for the nerf and the 99% one button usage well its 70% usage and i use it coz it does the job i doubt i showed here somthing that blizz doesnt know allrdy.
seriosuly i dont think im that much smarter than blizz developers, and i struck the jackpot here so nerf woul dcome.

[Shibba]

I see the point your making in your original post but the way you present yourself and your ideas is rather unappealing. The fact is the strategy your proposing is relatively new but it is accepted by progression guilds.

The role of the Disc priest in the raid, in my opinion and many other's has changed to mostly raid wide mitigation WITH burst heals on the tanks. You can't spam shield and nothing else and be considered pro as there is a place for every spell in your arsenal but in general shield spam is viable.

I know the pain as well because I know that when we do hardmodes it's best for the raid to go disc, but then when people see me going from #1 to last on effective healing I get tells questioning my decision.

Thankfully World of Logs has been updated and does work properly to count for absorption, there are minor flaws but what you see is pretty accurate. WWS is absolutely terrible atm. It's not accurate for several reasons one being that it counts all overheal from shamans totems as effective healing.

Your log was not a good log to post because as others have pointed out, those are not pro players. For the skeptics check this log of a Freya Knockx3 kill by Fusion a top world guild.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/Z...=12372&e=12911

ty so much for bringing this log out, as it seems disc shield spam and having good raid healers to top the raid works.
You can see that their disc used 57% time of shields folowed by pom and few poh.
All i can say is that i should improve on my POM cd's and throw abit more PoH's according to him...

[aed01]

Your log was not a good log to post because as others have pointed out, those are not pro players. For the skeptics check this log of a Freya Knockx3 kill by Fusion a top world guild.

Yeah and this is like what? 90% of the WoW population. This is not the EJ forums. It's already been acknowledged that in a perfect situation where guilds are min-maxing, there is not going to be a disc priest raid healing.

There's also just 6 healers btw. There's just fights where you only need a few tanks, who then use their DS to go healing.

[Squishypants]

This is not the EJ forums. It's already been acknowledged that in a perfect situation where guilds are min-maxing, there is not going to be a disc priest raid healing.

Umm what? The Disc priest IS raid healing/mitigating. Might want to read what I was saying and actually look at the log.

[aed01]

Umm what? The Disc priest IS raid healing/mitigating. Might want to read what I was saying and actually look at the log.

Yeah I just saw that, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you were another one of those hardcore players earlier on the thread saying otherwise.

[[-Spiritus-]]

Your log was not a good log to post because as others have pointed out, those are not pro players. For the skeptics check this log of a Freya Knockx3 kill by Fusion a top world guild.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/Z...=12372&e=12911

Freyax3 is one of those fights where raidwide shield spam could be extremely effective, for a portion of the fight. However, taking a look at the other boss kills, Nidaba has either switched to holy to raid heal, or was tank healing in disco.

Again, what works for you, works for you. Don't change a thing if you and your raid are happy. However, I cannot see "PW:S Spam" as 100%-0% strategy on every boss. It clearly has its uses, but, as has been stated before, high HPS does not equal effective healing. The fewer the number of people who die in your raid, the more effective your healing is.

Summation: "PW:S Spam" is a tool in the tool box of a disco priest. Where a disco priest *can* raid heal effectively, they are not doing it any better than other "top" raid healing specs. However, disco priests bring infinitely more to the table as primarily tank healers. Their ability to build aegis, have high sustained single target HPS, have a very long mana pool, and the best single target spike mitigator in the game in Penance, among others, allows them to safely contend with Paladins as one of the top 2 tank healing specs in the game.

I think it is folly to think that raid healing Disco priests throwing "PW:S Spam" will ever be accepted as the most effective use of the spec for most "reasonably" progressed guilds.

On a more "personal" note, I think when people are getting a little miffed, is when your suggesting that your playstyle *must* be accepted because of the numbers you reported. HPS =/= effective healing; No deaths = effective healing.

Having a Disco priest raid healing when you have holy priests, druids, and shaman is like having a warrior tank, aoe tanking when you have a pally and dk tank. A warrior tank *can* AoE tank, but he would do so much better on the boss.

[G l o w y r m]

Preventing damage is a supplement to other healers. I don't think we are "stealing" healing really, possibly on really easy Naxx encounters, but in Ulduar, when the raid takes damage the shield just buys time for other classes to heal them, or saves people from dying so another class can heal them.

We work together!

[Shibba]

Freyax3 is one of those fights where raidwide shield spam could be extremely effective, for a portion of the fight. However, taking a look at the other boss kills, Nidaba has either switched to holy to raid heal, or was tank healing in disco.

Again, what works for you, works for you. Don't change a thing if you and your raid are happy. However, I cannot see "PW:S Spam" as 100%-0% strategy on every boss. It clearly has its uses, but, as has been stated before, high HPS does not equal effective healing. The fewer the number of people who die in your raid, the more effective your healing is.

Summation: "PW:S Spam" is a tool in the tool box of a disco priest. Where a disco priest *can* raid heal effectively, they are not doing it any better than other "top" raid healing specs. However, disco priests bring infinitely more to the table as primarily tank healers. Their ability to build aegis, have high sustained single target HPS, have a very long mana pool, and the best single target spike mitigator in the game in Penance, among others, allows them to safely contend with Paladins as one of the top 2 tank healing specs in the game.

I think it is folly to think that raid healing Disco priests throwing "PW:S Spam" will ever be accepted as the most effective use of the spec for most "reasonably" progressed guilds.

On a more "personal" note, I think when people are getting a little miffed, is when your suggesting that your playstyle *must* be accepted because of the numbers you reported. HPS =/= effective healing; No deaths = effective healing.

Having a Disco priest raid healing when you have holy priests, druids, and shaman is like having a warrior tank, aoe tanking when you have a pally and dk tank. A warrior tank *can* AoE tank, but he would do so much better on the boss.

I agree, some classes suited better for different roles...
yet alot of ppl think that disc can ONLY MT heal and nothing more - i was trying to prove them otherwise.
never inteded to offend the druids or the holy priests by doing theyr job, just was showing that we can do this job with some tweaking to the gear and tottaly different approach to the spec

[Requital]

JoL > Disc =/= Druid in most cases

[Izenhart]

So...

A disc priest topping the meters (with guessed absorbs) on 7 bosses, in his own guilds = Disc topping the meters?.


Disc priest are not for topping damage, and anyways, as anyone said, you prevent damage someone could easily have healed up with AoE's and HoT's, I still think DPriests are way more efficent on a MT.

[Shibba]

So...

A disc priest topping the meters (with guessed absorbs) on 7 bosses, in his own guilds = Disc topping the meters?.


Disc priest are not for topping damage, and anyways, as anyone said, you prevent damage someone could easily have healed up with AoE's and HoT's, I still think DPriests are way more efficent on a MT.

you probably didnt read what i wrote, i based my findings on the logs and not the addon.
so you still think that disc is more usefull on your tank... is that coz you have your druid for the raid healing i presume? and you afraid to "waste" him on MT job?
have you ever tried to swich their roles? try see what happens and show us the numbers otherwise its just words with no evidence.

[rowit]

^^
finaly some one who understand me from the "other healer" point of view...
as for the nerf and the 99% one button usage well its 70% usage and i use it coz it does the job i doubt i showed here somthing that blizz doesnt know allrdy.
seriosuly i dont think im that much smarter than blizz developers, and i struck the jackpot here so nerf woul dcome.

You sound alot like the priests that defended the use of coh to the exclution of most of the other heals available to them. That didnt turn out so well for us priests, I think that your style works on some fights BUT not all and it may come back to bite you in the end

[Shibba]

You sound alot like the priests that defended the use of coh to the exclution of most of the other heals available to them. That didnt turn out so well for us priests, I think that your style works on some fights BUT not all and it may come back to bite you in the end

as some one stated, this is the play style of one individual me, and i was sharing it with the priest community encouraging others to try it, CoH was used by all the priests in the world - i dont think nerf will come coz only shibba uses this tactic.
also some say that i might change my perspective once i get into more harder bosses and will have to adjust accordingly.

And if the so spoken nerf will come then hey it seems that only me should be worried about it coz no one else does it hehe will be funny to see a blue post with "thank shibba for the nerf"