[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Clymene]

Same sales. Because P2P game is the same as B2P game at the moment of purchase. It doesn't matter how many freeloaders would have left as long as whales continue to pay a sub and use a cash shop lol.

I may be a data point of one, but there is no way I would have purchased GW2 is it was P2P.

[Elim Garak]

Extremely unlikely.

They have more players around because of a lower paywall and thus more people using their cash shop. If they had gone with P2P they would have lost almost all their players like every other subscription MMO except WoW.

Only a minority uses cash shop in a profitable way. Majority doesn't even touch it.
Yes, they would not have 3m subscribers if they had went P2P - but they would not have zero either. They would have around 500-1m subscribers and that would have brought them more money than cash shop. Plus they don't really need to remove the cash shop from p2p game lol.

Unless, unless GW2 is a shitty game. Is it?

Whales don't stick around on dead servers. You need freeloaders to make the game fun for the whales.

Are you implying that if GW2 had went P2P at launch no one would have played it? And by no one I mean less than 500k. Which is more than enough to fill GW2 servers.

[Keren]

I had accepted my chances that it could have been p2p, but not like wow's 15 bucks. So many people do rant about a 2 digital monthly cost that I first had to check the calendar. This note could have been released first april and all would be fine with it, but B2p30d + sub + CREDD + Cash Shop is really the worst. I mean, they could have made a 4,99$ subscritpions with 20 bucks start and everybody would be happy. 2nd that with a full price subs + cash shop currency like swtor ad even more people would praise their commitment to let every one play like they want and pay what they want.... *sigh*

My belly is full of anger about their naive dumbness. The comic is even "greater" - I would have spit in their face - literally - when I read that they really expect someone to pay 20$ for CREDD. the market about CREDD can only work in a game like EVE because the whole econemy is in the hands of players. They build everything and can sell everything. I expected W+ to have raids + dropps to achieve end-game gear. If crafting and housing will be the focus, well, it will not be my game :/

what a huch let-down

[Newbryn]

I may be a data point of one, but there is no way I would have purchased GW2 is it was P2P.

I wouldn't have either just like I won't purchase wildstar even to try it, I don't see the point of subscription and no point in wasting 60 bucks to try a game which I'm gonna have to pay for in the future should I decide I want to pick it back up again.

[RoninaThorstone]

Are you implying that if GW2 had went P2P at launch no one would have played it? And by no one I mean less than 500k. Which is more than enough to fill GW2 servers.

They would have had large box sales numbers (lower than it's B2P numbers) and then they would have lost almost all their players 2 months after launch.

Result? 3 months in, there wouldn't be many people using the cash shop because almost everyone quit. 6 months of lots of people using the cash shop > 2 months of people paying a subscription.

This happens to almost every misguided attempt to go with a subscription game.

[Elim Garak]

No, no it's not. The initial price is the same, but the expectation for further payments is not. People are less likely to buy a game that has a subscription attached to it as they may not want to pay for that subscription down the road but don't want to lose access to the game.

Citation needed.

As they don't know if they like it or not - it doesn't matter if it's p2p or b2p - for most people. They will have a month to check it out.
If they don't want to lose access to it - means they like the game and want to play it. Might as well pay a 1 month access fee.

Like, they're not the same at all. And please stop calling people "freeloaders", free players are extremely important to the health of F2P games even if they aren't paying anything.

Oh they are useful to the game, but I will call them freeloaders, because it's what they are, they don't play for free because "I'm useful", they play because "FFREEEEE!"
Try to convince me otherwise. Without resorting to anecdotes.

[Arlee]

The current official word on cash shops in Wildstar is, they aren't ruling it out but there isn't one right now. (for those asking)

Lastly, we talked about the dreaded microtransaction, and if WildStar would opt to also have a cash shop. In short? It won’t, at least not yet. They don’t want to close that door completely, but for now the only thing extra you can buy will be CREDD.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...-Revealed.html

[ShimmerSwirl]

I like the model, mainly because it frees the developers from the creativity-shackles of a b2p/f2p system.

[Elim Garak]

They would have had large box sales numbers (lower than it's B2P numbers) and then they would have lost almost all their players 2 months after launch.

Result? 3 months in, there wouldn't be many people using the cash shop because almost everyone quit. 6 months of lots of people using the cash shop > 2 months of people paying a subscription.

This happens to almost every misguided attempt to go with a subscription game.

Do you even know how many people play (seriously) GW2 now? Please share. I'm pretty sure it's not a very big number. And these people wouldn't mind paying a sub. They seem very dedicated. So your prediction is false.

[Arlee]

I like the model, mainly because it frees the developers from the creativity-shackles of a b2p/f2p system.

What creativity shackles are you referring to? o.O

[Newbryn]

I like the model, mainly because it frees the developers from the creativity-shackles of a b2p/f2p system.

What would those shackles be? I'm curious, the features announced in wildstar oozes a f2p/b2p system if you ask me.

[Elim Garak]

What creativity shackles are you referring to? o.O

Designing around cash shop

[Keren]

*argh* I'm so frustrated of "that announcement" I even asked if they could delete my beta-application

[RoninaThorstone]

What creativity shackles are you referring to? o.O

Apparently, when you tell some unpaid interns to recolor existing armor models for the cash shop... You somehow dampen the creative ability of the other departments.

[zito]

Do you even know how many people play (seriously) GW2 now? Please share. I'm pretty sure it's not a very big number. And these people wouldn't mind paying a sub. They seem very dedicated. So your prediction is false.

According to the data they gave us they sold over 3 million copys in less then a year, 2.5 mill of those players still play and around 500k people logging into play a week.

Of course we don't know specific specifics like how long each person play but it's their data and we have to go by it.

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Designing around cash shop

You have no actual proof that they are designing around the cash shop, adding things to it doesn't count btw. Nor does designing behind a cash shop a creativity limitation.

[RoninaThorstone]

Do you even know how many people play (seriously) GW2 now? Please share. I'm pretty sure it's not a very big number. And these people wouldn't mind paying a sub. They seem very dedicated. So your prediction is false.

Since most people list the lack of a subscription model as one of the things they like most about GW2... Your prediction is false.

[Edge-]

Citation needed.

As they don't know if they like it or not - it doesn't matter if it's p2p or b2p - for most people. They will have a month to check it out.
If they don't want to lose access to it - means they like the game and want to play it. Might as well pay a 1 month access fee.

The initial sales of similarly hyped games within a similar sized market such as Tera, AoC, WAR, Aion, and others.

The only subscription based game to hit 2 million sales at launch (or within the first 3 months) has been SWTOR, which is a game that not only has the benefit of having one of the most widely recognized and loved IP's out there (Star Wars), but also a developer with a very positive reputation at the time (BioWare) and a development/marketing budget that absolutely dwarfed what GW2 had. So I'm going off of historical evidence.

Oh they are useful to the game, but I will call them freeloaders, because it's what they are, they don't play for free because "I'm useful", they play because "FFREEEEE!"
Try to convince me otherwise. Without resorting to anecdotes.

Seriously, stop with the freeloader comments. It's insulting.

How many people are going to stick around a game that has dead servers leaving you unable to do any group content and with a world that seems lifeless?

Pretty much nobody. Consequently, the whales are people, and if their game isn't populated and they don't feel that it's going to be around or if they're not enjoying the fact that the game is dead, then they're not going to stick around to pay either.

I like the model, mainly because it frees the developers from the creativity-shackles of a b2p/f2p system.

What "creativity-shackles" would those be?

Designing around cash shop

Other than SWTOR and Neverwinter, I can't think of a recent major F2P MMO that is designed around the cash shop. All take the cash shop into account with their design decisions, but they're not designed around it.

[ShimmerSwirl]

What creativity shackles are you referring to? o.O

In cash shop supported games, imo the design is limited in scope by the constant necessity to funnel people into the shop. P2P games don't have that limitation. To me that is single biggest difference between the two.

[Elim Garak]

According to the data they gave us they sold over 3 million copys in less then a year, 2.5 mill of those players still play and around 500k people logging into play a week.

So 500k dedicated players. As I thought.

You have no actual proof that they are designing around the cash shop, adding things to it doesn't count btw. Nor does designing behind a cash shop a creativity limitation.

If you design a f2p game - you design it around cash shop. That's the foundation of F2P design. If you don't - your F2P game fails to gain profit.
That's the ABC of F2P design. For dummies.

[Arlee]

Designing around cash shop

If a game has the entire team only creating new things for the cash shop, that tends to fail pretty quickly. The successful games tend to put in real content which has nothing to do with cash shops. Not to mention cash shops aren't limited to only b2p and f2p games. Insinuating having those models naturally shackles the devs is ill informed.

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In cash shop supported games, imo the design is limited in scope by the constant necessity to funnel people into the shop. P2P games don't have that limitation. To me that is single biggest difference between the two.

Sometimes, but not always.