[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[avarcis]

...and generally waste all our time because you don't share my opinion.

You don't have an opinion, you're here to bash the game, provide no arguments as to why, ignore all effort of creating any meaningful discussion and deflect all the questions people ask you. In the last 200 pages you have provided nothing constructive, all your posts boil down to one of the following: 1) This game sucks 2) This game sucks 3) Bashing the poster who is trying to talk to you 4) Telling us that you are not bashing the poster who is trying to talk to you. Get over yourself, you're not Spock, you're a regular jaded troll.
You're just as useful as a guy who would drop by every 10 pages and with the EXACT same message of "I love this game, it's freaking awesome, it's gonna kill wow". There is no discussion in that. You don't like it- no one cares. I like it- no one cares. Elaborate for god sake. But than again, I know perfectly well that instead of actually you know, talking about your likes or dislikes, you'll post another aggressive useless little paragraph about me being mean to you for no reason.

while i don't post really at all in this thread, i have been actively reading it since the beginning. i see what i see and that is you're really defensive.

We all know Kelimbror is the resident ahole by now. No one even bothers to take him seriously.
I'm done with this thread.

[Simulacrum]

its not. You can compare even the first two shon dungeons and see that they clearly follow different encounter design. e.g. first boss in KV could be a normal wow boss. the only difference is, that the effectful encounter animations are backgrounded with a telegraph.

The number of abilities available to players is a very big difference. Remove all but a dozen of every class' abilities from WoW classes, and every challenging raiding encounter in the game would have to be heavily nerfed and/or redesigned so that players would be able to deal with it without access to their rare procs, strong, long-cooldown abilities, and/or utility-focused abilities.

I dubt wildstar will ever be able to have encounters as tactically complex as wow does. The 'combat rotations' will also be more simplistic as a result of the fewer abilities. It will have to rely on its more movement-focused combat to keep people interested.

So it would surprise me if boss encounter had less movement than WoW encounters do, and I don't know if you've raided a lot lately, but WoW encounter require a lot of movement these days, at least outside of LFR. It would have to basically be heigan to have more.

[Kelimbror]

When are people going to get it through their heads that posting your opinion is being constructive and bitching about other peoples' opinions is not?

Indeed. Even worse that everyone attacking me for giving my explanation, which did go further than simply saying I don't like the game (which isn't even what I said in the first place), keep saying I'm not having a discussion because I'm not giving detailed/exact reasons as to why....in a game that has an NDA...where even openly admitting you are in beta is breaking it. I mean people's only defense for the game is to try and bait people into breaking NDA? This is a new low for any MMO community.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Yes I should answer questions that equate to grammar/technicality police. Do you have anymore internet buzzwords to throw out in your post? I'm surprised I didn't see strawman, gameplay used improperly, etc. You are pretty much writing the textbook on improper posting. It's odd that you find the need to attack me, claim I'm the one being defensive (passive aggressive much? How tacky), and generally waste all our time because you don't share my opinion.

You're free to love and even worship the game. I'd suggest you not crusade against people who state otherwise. No one can adequately discuss their opinions for good or ill because of NDA. You'll just have to put your big boy britches on and be ok with that.

PS- You clearly missed the context of the entire conversation if you think I was seriously commenting on a post count. Go back and reread it, maybe you'll be enlightened. It was sarcasm to make a point.

Its amusing how when someone says that you ignore the topic at hand and instead dodge the question by using ad hominem attacks, that your reply to them is you continuing to do just that. At least you're consistent!

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, but he's not using any "confidential information" when he says he doesn't like it.

Explaining WHY he doesn't like it would require using some of that information.

Technically its breaking confidentially to even say your in the beta. And before Kelimbro can respond with a snarky little, "But I never said I was in the beta", well if you aren't in the beta then please shut up and stop giving your "opinions" about the game because you haven't played it. And if you are in the beta, then please shut up and stop talking about how the game sucks because you're breaking the NDA.

[avarcis]

Indeed. Even worse that everyone attacking me for giving my explanation, which did go further than simply saying I don't like the game (which isn't even what I said in the first place), keep saying I'm not having a discussion because I'm not giving detailed/exact reasons as to why....in a game that has an NDA...where even openly admitting you are in beta is breaking it. I mean people's only defense for the game is to try and bait people into breaking NDA? This is a new low for any MMO community.

Poor you. Must have been completely nothing, it's just that the whole world randomly turned on you. Just reread your own posts for god sake, you're clearly being delusional on how you come across.

[jearle]

If every boss is a Heigan dance I won't be raiding. It will surely get stale in the long run, I'd probably quit at the first expac.

What a huge assumption and close minded attitude based off that assumption.

This game has a dodge mechanic and telegraphs. Just because there are telegraphs doesn't mean that you will only be avoiding things.
You will need to dodge/avoid telegraphs like it is second nature in order to deal with the other boss mechanics / do your role effectively.

The boss with the biggest list of mechanics is not necessarily the more difficult or more fun boss, WoW has shown us this to be true.
WoW currently has the best end game raiding and their boss fights are usually top notch. However, WoW has had to evolve with the use of BossMods and develop encounters with these things in mind and it becomes increasingly more difficult to come up with novel mechanics that players haven't seen before.

Wildstar's dodge mechanic and action oriented combat already changes what they can do with raid design.

Having raided in WoW for years I was accustomed to watching timers while doing my role on a boss fight.

After playing FF14 Ive gotten use to not having any timers whatsoever and simply watching my environment to dodge telegraphs while executing mechanics and performing a role. FF14 doesnt have a dodge mechanic and moving hingers the caster classes immensely but you can still see some of the possibilities with this system by looking at their boss fights.

Here is another example from FF14. The viewpoint from this guy is not fantastic but you will be able to see some of final boss of Coil Turn 2.

Fight Mechanics:
Entire Fight
Tank Swap Mechanic - 3 stack bullshit (frontal cleave as well)
Silence Mechanic - Every ~ 15-20 seconds a cast goes out that must be silenced or hits raid for dmg and a debuff (typically a wipe) Typically 2 silencers and coordination are needed (or 1 good Monk sitting on the ability)
Pulsing AoE dmg whole fight
Melee Telegraph - Big Red Circle around boss hits for ~75% of life if hit
Extending Narrow Telegraph - Extends the full length of room and hits for sames as melee telegraph

@ 75% A debuff hits a player - 15 second debuff must be passed to another player (you get a 40 sec debuff after passing) similar to Professor Putricide mechanic, need to pass it around 5-6 players

@ 50% Every ~20 seconds a Void zone appears over random players head and leaves a void zone on floor which does dmg and snares

@ 25% Ballast - A Huge Telegraph that goes out and is almost Pacman Shaped with only 1 wedge of safe space. Causes ~25% health and a kniockback if hit (ranged can ignore)

Fight is a gauntlet with 3 mini bosses prior to the main boss, 12 minute enrage.




FF14 has alot of old school mechanics and is really clunky in alot of way but this shows that telegraphs can be weaved into a fight with other boss mechanics to deliver interesting content.

I can only hope Wildstar uses their combat system to design interesting encounters.

[Kelimbror]

FF14 has alot of old school mechanics and is really clunky in alot of way but this shows that telegraphs can be weaved into a fight with other boss mechanics to deliver interesting content.

I can only hope Wildstar uses their combat system to design interesting encounters.

Yeah I'm not sure why there's such a stigma with telegraphs specifically. I went into this many pages ago, but it's a much better form of communication than graphics which can't always be displayed properly. Similar to the LAS, I'm not sure why people can't accept these systems which are dependent on encounter design. Once the design fails, sure, then we can criticize it. The problem isn't with the tools, it's how the tools are used. I actually think the LAS and Telegraphs are stronger design choices for the game.

[jearle]

The number of abilities available to players is a very big difference. Remove all but a dozen of every class' abilities from WoW classes, and every challenging raiding encounter in the game would have to be heavily nerfed and/or redesigned so that players would be able to deal with it without access to their rare procs, strong, long-cooldown abilities, and/or utility-focused abilities. I dubt wildstar will ever be able to have encounters as tactically complex as wow does

I think you missed the point, he was speaking of the bosses abilities not the players abilities. The difference is WoWs raid encounters are designed with the ability bloat in mind and characters having access to all of them as well as players having access to boss mods. Like I have said before a boss with 20 mechanics is not necessarily more difficult or more fun than a boss with 10 especially if there is a boss mod tracking / alerting you of everything.

The 'combat rotations' will also be more simplistic as a result of the fewer abilities. It will have to rely on its more movement-focused combat to keep people interested.

Combat rotations in WoW currently are fairly simple for most classes. You generally are hitting 5-6 buttons at a maximum outside of cooldowns.

Just because you have a limited action set doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have access to interesting abilities. You will be able to have different builds accordingly based on pure dps, support ect. The key is if the abilities that you have to choose from are interesting or not.

WoW has great raiding, imo far and away the best in the market right now (normal/heroic) but it is its own beast that Blizzard has to deal with managing the ability bloat and the boss mods when designing raid encounters. Wildstar is starting fresh and doesn't necessarily have to go down the path of 30 tactics per boss.

[RoninaThorstone]

I actually think the LAS and Telegraphs are stronger design choices for the game.

Agreed.

The telegraphs are a great way to escape the rainbowdash barf that is the current raiding experience in WoW. I mean, can you even tell what's happening on the floor at this point? It just seems to be a magic eye + acid.

Something clear like a giant red circle allows for us to have the spectacle of fancy spells without the 40 man clusterfuck of 40 different spell effects on your screen interfering with the fight.

[Dimzum]

Yeah I'm not sure why there's such a stigma with telegraphs specifically. I went into this many pages ago, but it's a much better form of communication than graphics which can't always be displayed properly. Similar to the LAS, I'm not sure why people can't accept these systems which are dependent on encounter design. Once the design fails, sure, then we can criticize it. The problem isn't with the tools, it's how the tools are used. I actually think the LAS and Telegraphs are stronger design choices for the game.

I had a similar conversation with my raid leader. I just finally upgraded my laptop recently. I have been playing all of MoP on poor-low (maybe fair) settings. Several fights were difficult to tell where "teh badz" were. Durumu was one such case, as was Lei Shen on certain parts, and fallen protectors during Sorrow, Misery and Gloom (and tanking these fights didn't make it much easier).

The new computer made it much easier to see these telegraphs, but having them be so obvious and second nature will actually be a welcomed changed. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten gibbed on Timeless Isle on my alts because I didn't see the fire path coming from one of the Ordos elites.

[Kelimbror]

Agreed.

The telegraphs are a great way to escape the rainbowdash barf that is the current raiding experience in WoW. I mean, can you even tell what's happening on the floor at this point? It just seems to be a magic eye + acid.

Something clear like a giant red circle allows for us to have the spectacle of fancy spells without the 40 man clusterfuck of 40 different spell effects on your screen interfering with the fight.

Some raids are just designed worse than others too. ToT was trash on my system and would reduce me to 3-5 fps on specific effects because they wanted to show fancy swirly purples. While it was clearly something they did 'wrong' that was never fixed, that problem just doesn't happen with 2D templates of solid colors. Raiding is already exclusive enough, I don't think they need to start expecting people to be playing on overclocked i7s with 100 graphics cards and advanced cryogenic cooling systems just to raid in a non realistic aesthetic game.

- - - Updated - - -

*snip

I actually have a pretty good computer and I have problems with the exact same effects. Durmumu purple garbage, fire trails on the isle...yeah...definitely a failure on their part which becomes irrelevant once you let it be simple telegraphs. Gameplay is greater than aesthetic. At some point you have to sacrifice pretty things on the ground for something functional and clear.

[Zephyr Storm]

You don't have an opinion, you're here to bash the game, provide no arguments as to why, ignore all effort of creating any meaningful discussion and deflect all the questions people ask you. In the last 200 pages you have provided nothing constructive, all your posts boil down to one of the following: 1) This game sucks 2) This game sucks 3) Bashing the poster who is trying to talk to you 4) Telling us that you are not bashing the poster who is trying to talk to you. Get over yourself, you're not Spock, you're a regular jaded troll.
You're just as useful as a guy who would drop by every 10 pages and with the EXACT same message of "I love this game, it's freaking awesome, it's gonna kill wow". There is no discussion in that. You don't like it- no one cares. I like it- no one cares. Elaborate for god sake. But than again, I know perfectly well that instead of actually you know, talking about your likes or dislikes, you'll post another aggressive useless little paragraph about me being mean to you for no reason.




We all know Kelimbror is the resident ahole by now. No one even bothers to take him seriously.
I'm done with this thread.

Yeah. He's pretty much one of those people who get butthurt because the game they wanted to like turns out not to be for them. Instead of accepting this fact, they take to the internet in a crusade of telling everyone the game sucks. They then deny they are doing this, while at the same time, still continuing to do it. Rinse and repeat.

I hate it when people like Kel get into betas and then do nothing but sit and trash the game. Especially when people like me, who are genuinely interested in the game and want to see it succeed and help with that goal, are left just sitting here, waiting for a beta invite that will probably never come. And constructive criticism is one thing. What Kel has been doing is anything but that. Most of his posts can be summed up to "This game sucks. I don't like. It let me down. Hype train failed." Oh really? Then stop talking about it and move on to something else.

[RoninaThorstone]

they take to the internet in a crusade of telling everyone the game sucks.

Really well timed post.

Right after he complements Wildstars LAS and telegraph system.

Good work.

[unholytestament]

Really well timed post.

Right after he complements Wildstars LAS and telegraph system.

Good work.

You think he actually read any of Kelim's posts?

[Ytlayol]

Yeah. He's pretty much one of those people who get butthurt because the game they wanted to like turns out not to be for them. Instead of accepting this fact, they take to the internet in a crusade of telling everyone the game sucks. They then deny they are doing this, while at the same time, still continuing to do it. Rinse and repeat.

Quite ironic, I frequent the GW2 section and this part right here perfectly describes you haha.

[Arlee]

I don't know why this thread has randomly turned into a "let's all pick a different poster and pick on them" thread but knock it off. Discuss things about Wildstar not your personal feelings about the worth of other posters please.

[Greektoast]

I don't know why this thread has randomly turned into a "let's all pick a different poster and pick on them" thread but knock it off. Discuss things about Wildstar not your personal feelings about the worth of other posters please.

Thank you.

[Ateista]

When are people going to get it through their heads that posting your opinion is being constructive and bitching about other peoples' opinions is not?

because he doesn't post constructively.

i wouldn't care if he posted his opinions then answered others questions why he is indifferent; what i do care about is when people ask him why, he instead gets defensive.

i can't stand that shit and you should too. it doesn't make threads very productive. and quite frankly it just makes them very unenjoyable.

[Edge-]

i wouldn't care if he posted his opinions then answered others questions why he is indifferent; what i do care about is when people ask him why, he instead gets defensive.

He can't explain why without breaking the NDA. It's frustrating, but he's respecting the NDA he agreed to so he can't go into details.

[RoninaThorstone]

He can't explain why without breaking the NDA. It's frustrating, but he's respecting the NDA he agreed to so he can't go into details.

This.

I've even tried to explain my specific issues with the game (which I think is good, not amazing but good) and a moderator has been polite enough to edit it out without banning me.