Warcraft III: Reforged Update, CarbotAnimations - Diablo Immoral, DLC #822

Originally Posted by The Stormbringer

I really just want them to release the old client again. Let us play the original game. Fire up the old Battle.net servers and make it so WC3 installs stay as WC3 and don't auto-update to Reforged. This is all I want, please.

Cute-naive-fool, they already sold old WC3... they want more $$$$$, so its time to cashgrab some $ for ReReforged Remastered WC3.



Do you think they have money and time to make WC4?... nah too much work.

The only thing I want from Warcraft III: Reforged is for them to have the original Warcraft III series downloadable and installable like it was before they released that trash Reforge.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Okay, what are they working on?
What are they planning to fix in the grand scheme of things?

Again, promises of updates without any details of what's actually planned for the future, we already had in the past, there Blizzard didn't deliver.
If they want to show that they've changed, then do things differentely.

They said they'll give updates when they're ready.

As I've said several times now, it's fine to be skeptical, but it's not productive for anyone to just immediately start saying how they're not going to do anything despite them saying the opposite. Have some patience and wait.

When they announce what it is, if it's not good enough, THEN give the feedback that it should be more. Don't just start screaming "LIAR!".

Originally Posted by Kralljin

If a tech company like Blizzard hasn't adapted to the pandemic after 2,5 years, they are frankly just incompetent.
I work for a machining manufacturer, if anyone would show up there and say that a project suffers delays at the design stage because of the pandemic in 2022, they would get laughed out of the room.

Don't leave out the lawsuit and the rest of their workload.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

It is, i care about the products i purchased, not the ones i didn't.

Stop shifting the goalposts to other Blizzard projects, this is about Reforged.

You have no idea what you're even arguing at this point it seems.

I pointed out that WC3R is an outliner in their remaster efforts. So yes, I'd believe they're going to actually try to bring it up to par, and I point to D2R and SCR as evidence. That isn't moving the goalpost.
What IS moving the goalpost though, is going from straight up saying "Blizzard isn't going to provide more updates!" to "well they haven't so far..."

This clearly isn't going anywhere though

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

They said they'll give updates when they're ready.

As I've said several times now, it's fine to be skeptical, but it's not productive for anyone to just immediately start saying how they're not going to do anything despite them saying the opposite. Have some patience and wait.

When they announce what it is, if it's not good enough, THEN give the feedback that it should be more. Don't just start screaming "LIAR!".



Don't leave out the lawsuit and the rest of their workload.




You have no idea what you're even arguing at this point it seems.

I pointed out that WC3R is an outliner in their remaster efforts. So yes, I'd believe they're going to actually try to bring it up to par, and I point to D2R and SCR as evidence. That isn't moving the goalpost.
What IS moving the goalpost though, is going from straight up saying "Blizzard isn't going to provide more updates!" to "well they haven't so far..."

This clearly isn't going anywhere though

I mean they are over a year past launch and they haven't gotten the features back from the 20 year old version. Add to that them destroying the mod scene that had lasted 20 years out of envy and sour grapes from dota and I can get the condescending view people have.

The product people already owned was very arguably made worse and the knowledge that it might one day be up to par with what it was isnt something to give them a round of applause for.

Originally Posted by Celement

I mean they are over a year past launch and they haven't gotten the features back from the 20 year old version. Add to that them destroying the mod seen that had lasted 20 years out of envy and sour grapes from dota and I cam get the condescending view people have.

The product people already owned was very arguably made worse and the knowledge that it might one day be up to par with what it was isnt something to give them a round of applause for.

Well I'm absolutely not going to say praise them for this or anything. It's definitely a case of being ridiculously late. I understand why WC3R was probably not their priority for the last 2 years, but I also think the pitchforks can wait until they actually announce what they plan to do.

Like, even if in a few months there's still no news? Then yeah, definitely start to raise hell.

But right now? Right after they just said "we're going to give more updates, just give us a bit to tell you what they'll be"? Seems preemptive.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Well I'm absolutely not going to say praise them for this or anything. It's definitely a case of being ridiculously late. I understand why WC3R was probably not their priority for the last 2 years, but I also think the pitchforks can wait until they actually announce what they plan to do.

Like, even if in a few months there's still no news? Then yeah, definitely start to raise hell.

But right now? Right after they just said "we're going to give more updates, just give us a bit to tell you what they'll be"? Seems preemptive.

I guess it could be?

Honestly I think what the fans want at this point is for them to restore the old service and return ownership of custom maps to their makers. Then launch reforged through a seperate client.

It feels like they have to undo the damage to the product people already had before trying to fix the new version .

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

You mean like how they just said they'll be doing so and to keep an eye out for the future?

You claim you want them to fix the game, but here they post that there's more coming and you're immediately ripping into it, of course it comes across as you not wanting them to do anything.

For the rest, to quickly bullet point.

-there's still a pandemic going on, it hasn't gone away.

-comparing to other remakes isn't irrelevant, you can't dismiss it just because you don't want to hear it.

-the fabled player exodus that no one can actually prove existed, yet we literally had devs come out saying that a lot of the changes and listening to feedback came from the higher ups actually listening to the devs

Covid stopped being a thing to blame a long time ago. You dont even need to wear a mask when on airplanes anymore. Besides maybe a couple months, covid really shoudlnt effect workflow for tech jobs like game designers. Its just a bullshit excuse for the few companies in tech that actually lost MAU like Blizzard did. Everyone else in the game/tech sector GAINED users, but somehow blizzard managed to LOSE users when everyone was stuck at home.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Have some patience and wait.

Mate, people paid 30 bucks for Reforged and got an arguably inferior product than what they bought two decades ago.

How you can seriously take Blizzards side on this and say people need to have more patience with them is just so fucking tone deaf of the entire situation, especially in the light of the fact that their first update is extremely bare and bones and they don't even reveal what they're going to work on in future updates.
I repeat: I want to know what they're working on, this isn't something that is beyond reason to expect if they have anyone working on this project because they sure as shit must follow some plan or priority what they actually want to work on.

And i reiterate that for the Xth time: They said the same stuff already two years ago and didn't deliver.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

When they announce what it is, if it's not good enough, THEN give the feedback that it should be more. Don't just start screaming "LIAR!".

I do call them a liar, because they lied before.

They lied about the scope of Reforged, but just took Pre orders anyway without even knowing the full scope of the project themselves.
Then after its terrible launch, they lied about updating the project because they dismantled the team behind the scenes.

If a company lies twice about the same project, it's 100% justified to call them a liar on the 3rd round, especially if that round only is a barren update and doesn't even detail what they plan on fixing in the future.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Don't leave out the lawsuit and the rest of their workload.

The team working on Reforged was already laid off almost a year before the lawsuit.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

That isn't moving the goalpost.

It is, i don't care about the SC Remaster, i care about Reforged, Blizzard lied multiple times about this project and i have no further reason to blindly trust them.
I expect more than vague promises about updates, i want to know what they plan to update.
Because at this point, they frankly cannot expect to play it "safe" and hope people believe them, only announcing things when they are 100% certain they deliver, they must be upfront and then also deliver.

That's simply the road they have to go when they want to regain trust and it's not like that any of the elements that people demand are absolutely extra ordinary features.

That blue post about WC3R sounds like something they are just saying to buy time.

map changes so far:

1.32 Silvermoon


1.33 Silvermoon, courtesy of Kam


closer view of 1.32 Silvermoon, courtesy of Kam


closer view of 1.33 Silvermoon, courtesy of Kam (note the crystals are blue again)


1.32 Dalaran


1.33 Dalaran, courtesy of Kam


secret path in 1.33 Cry of the Warsong, courtesy of Kam


- - - Updated - - -

changes to facefx in Insanemonster's Re-Reforged, courtesy of InsaneMonster

Originally Posted by InsaneMonster

Most FaceFX animations have been reworked
especially in cinematics where appropriate tags are used, they move their mouth more and have far stronger expressions
Some improvements are evident also in portrait talking animations
but they are reduced with respect to cinematic animations

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Why would you instantly jump to "if that's really all they have"

Because it took them nearly 2.5 years to add the single most basic things that should be bare minimum for MP on launch for a remaster of game that has had these features 2 decades ago?

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Why would you instantly jump to "if that's really all they have"

probably because we were promised more than just a simple remaster and the game came out with lots of broken stuff and we still haven't gotten the bare minimum treatment 2 years in

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Mate, people paid 30 bucks for Reforged and got an arguably inferior product than what they bought two decades ago.

How you can seriously take Blizzards side on this and say people need to have more patience with them is just so fucking tone deaf of the entire situation, especially in the light of the fact that their first update is extremely bare and bones and they don't even reveal what they're going to work on in future updates.
I repeat: I want to know what they're working on, this isn't something that is beyond reason to expect if they have anyone working on this project because they sure as shit must follow some plan or priority what they actually want to work on.

And i reiterate that for the Xth time: They said the same stuff already two years ago and didn't deliver.

I do call them a liar, because they lied before.

They lied about the scope of Reforged, but just took Pre orders anyway without even knowing the full scope of the project themselves.
Then after its terrible launch, they lied about updating the project because they dismantled the team behind the scenes.

If a company lies twice about the same project, it's 100% justified to call them a liar on the 3rd round, especially if that round only is a barren update and doesn't even detail what they plan on fixing in the future.

The team working on Reforged was already laid off almost a year before the lawsuit.

It is, i don't care about the SC Remaster, i care about Reforged, Blizzard lied multiple times about this project and i have no further reason to blindly trust them.
I expect more than vague promises about updates, i want to know what they plan to update.
Because at this point, they frankly cannot expect to play it "safe" and hope people believe them, only announcing things when they are 100% certain they deliver, they must be upfront and then also deliver.

That's simply the road they have to go when they want to regain trust and it's not like that any of the elements that people demand are absolutely extra ordinary features.

You are the type of person who LOVES to whine like a little b*tch 24/7

why are you taking one update they did and making up dumb conspiracies like 'oh, Ybarra messed up on steam so they had to make an update'

This also goes to show that you NEVER WORKED IN A COMPANY ON A BIG PROJECT BEFORE.

Originally Posted by Freestyle80

You are the type of person who LOVES to whine like a little b*tch 24/7

I frankly do not care about what you think i love, but i do care that when i buy a product, i actually get what's being promised and failing that, actually receive support and updates so that this product comes into an acceptable state at a later point.

It's been over two years since Reforged launched and it's still a far shot from what was promised and what Warcraft 3 actually deserves, considering they killed the original one for Reforged.

Originally Posted by Freestyle80

why are you taking one update they did and making up dumb conspiracies like 'oh, Ybarra messed up on steam so they had to make an update'

Because that update is paper thin.
If they would go out and say "Hey, this what we're planning for Reforged to update, fix and so forth in the coming months", then you would have at least something to hold them to.

Right now the empty promise of updates happens for a second time and a pitiful small update does not make any reasonable person confident of their commitment to actually bringing this project into an acceptable state.

Originally Posted by Freestyle80

This also goes to show that you NEVER WORKED IN A COMPANY ON A BIG PROJECT BEFORE.

No, it only shows that you're willing to defend Blizzard no matter they're doing.

Of all the shit that Blizzard has pulled in the last 5 years as far as their products is concerned, Reforged is the one that frankly deserve no defense whatsoever.
You had a spokesperson literally admit that they knowingly launched the game in an unfinished state because they didn't want to refund the game.
These aren't conspiracies, that's official Blizzard communication.

And then when it actually came to finishing the game, they just dismantled the team working on this project and thus resulted in a over two years silence.
Reminder: They haven't delivered anything so far that makes even remotely up for the scam that Reforged is, nor do they have promised any specific updates.

Imagine any major company doing this:
You completely fuck up the product, sell it despite knowing it's not finished, it replaces the original but fully functional product, promise updates, then dismantle the team behind the scenes and then not touch the project for over two years.

Any major company that does this shit where the customers have 0 emotional attachment to the products would no longer be a major company within a few years.

this looks so bad and so artificial, so bland...I hope the gameplay is at least good

Originally Posted by Wilian

Because it took them nearly 2.5 years to add the single most basic things that should be bare minimum for MP on launch for a remaster of game that has had these features 2 decades ago?

But COVID tho...

Originally Posted by Kralljin

The pandemic isn't to blame, but the fact that Blizzard dismantled the Classic team behind the scenes without telling the customers.

Nevermind that this pandemic business started like what, two years ago?
It stopped being an excuse for WoW, why should Reforged get a free pass?

Art was outsourced and other contractors (such as David Fried) were ghosted by Blizzard when they chose to slash the funding of the project.

So?
This isn't about those remakes, it's about Reforged.

Nevermind that D2:Ressurected was fully outsourced to VV, unlike Reforged where only Art Assets where outsourced.

It's not a vague point, Blizzard promised updates and fired the team behind the scenes.

Yes, possibly because if you remove WoW from Blizzards bottomline, there isn't much left in the last years besides HS.
And let's not play dumb and pretend that this wasn't due to the player exodus in 2021 forcing their hand.

This is utterly stupid.
I want them to fix Reforged, but what does Blizzard actually plan to fix?

The Artstyle? It's been often criticized, does Blizzard plan to change this?
Multiplayer campaigns? Those also need to be re added.
Connection issues? I recently replayed Warcraft 3, on multiple missions i had to restart the mission shortly after starting it because i got disconnected (not my Internet, i just WC3)
More Missions being remade? You know, more than the 3 that they've remade?
New models for custommaps creators to play around with?
Maybe Custommaps made by Blizzard themselves, similiar to Azeroth Grand prix?
More support for custommap creators?
Scratch that whole "we own custom maps" from the ToS of their map editor?
Who is actually in charge of Reforged now? Maybe that person should present themselves to the community, possibly answer some of the questions above.

Warcraft 3 Reforged really has a lot of space to improve upon and it would be great to know what Blizzard actually plans to fix, rather than just handing out vague promises over more updates coming.
We already had that in 2020, i don't want any promises of updates, i want to know what they're planning to update.
We had vague promises in 2020, there we got nothing.

So if they actually want to signal that they've changed, how about some communication on what they actually plan to work on.
They've underdelivered in the past, now they need to make up for it.

You sound like an ass who doesn't want this game to be fixed. Why are u so pessimistic about them finally taking an interest in fixing this game? We could get everything we asked for and more if they continue (like getting wc3 back, fixing all the issues, adding all the content they promised with fully fledged cinematics). How is this a bad thing?

Such animosity lol. Why are u even here? Yea they are 2.5 years late. Better late than never???? Seriously, you are arguing over nonsense you have no information on. Wait and see.

Originally Posted by PsychoSe7eN

You sound like an ass who doesn't want this game to be fixed. Why are u so pessimistic about them finally taking an interest in fixing this game? We could get everything we asked for and more if they continue (like getting wc3 back, fixing all the issues, adding all the content they promised with fully fledged cinematics). How is this a bad thing?

Such animosity lol. Why are u even here? Yea they are 2.5 years late. Better late than never???? Seriously, you are arguing over nonsense you have no information on. Wait and see.

This post has like 11 Blizzdrone buzzwords.

Originally Posted by PsychoSe7eN

You sound like an ass who doesn't want this game to be fixed. Why are u so pessimistic about them finally taking an interest in fixing this game? We could get everything we asked for and more if they continue (like getting wc3 back, fixing all the issues, adding all the content they promised with fully fledged cinematics). How is this a bad thing?

Such animosity lol. Why are u even here? Yea they are 2.5 years late. Better late than never???? Seriously, you are arguing over nonsense you have no information on. Wait and see.

Two overly pro Blizzard replies from two separate accounts, which just happens to have only a handful of posts.

...i smell something fishy.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Two overly pro Blizzard replies from two separate accounts, which just happens to have only a handful of posts.

...i smell something fishy.

Uhhh that would be your breath backing up. Try breathing through your nostrils before you throw up from the smell. And brush your teeth once in a while lol, maybe some mouthwash?


Infracted for flaming.