Patch 5.4 - Flexible Raid Preview
Patch 5.4 will add a a new raid difficulty:

  • Bring anywhere from 10 to 25 people to your raid and the difficulty will automatically scale.
  • Works with battletags, so you can bring friends from other realms.
  • Item level of loot is between Raid Finder and Normal and loot is awarded with the Raid Finder style loot system.
  • Separate lockout from Raid Finder and Normal, allowing you to do all three difficulties.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Raids in World of Warcraft have a long history of not just challenging players, but changing and evolving as the years and expansions go by. As with everything in the game, we’re always thinking about what more we can bring to raiding to improve the experience for an even wider range of players. While Normal and Heroic Raids are a great fit for many, we feel there’s another gap worth filling—and to that end, we’re currently working on the development of a new type of Raid for the next major content update: Flexible Raiding.

One Size Does Not Fit All
While it’s impossible to fit every player into a neat, tidy archetype, we recognize that we could be providing a better experience to one broad category of raider: social groups comprised predominantly of friends and family, and smaller guilds that do their best to include as many members in their Raid outings possible.

During the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, the 10-player Normal difficulty served these groups of players pretty well, but the unification of 10-player and 25-player into a single difficulty effectively eliminated that niche. While Raid Finder mode is extremely accessible, it doesn’t provide smaller groups with a tight-knit social experience while progressing through the content. In Patch 5.4, we’re planning to introduce a new mode of raiding that allows us to deliver the sort of experience that we think these players are looking for.

/Flex
To fill this void, we’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together. This difficulty will be available for premade groups of 10–25 players, including any number in between. That means whether you have 11, 14, or 23 friends available for a Raid, they’ll all be able to participate.

The Flexible Raid system is designed so that the challenge level will scale depending on how many players you have in the Raid. So if you switch between 14 players one week and 22 the next, the difficulty will adjust automatically. Keep in mind that unlike Raid Finder, no matchmaking is available, so you’ll need to make sure you invite people to attend—but if some can’t make it, it’s not the end of the world (or the Raid). You’ll also still be able to invite Real ID or Battle.net friends cross-realm. Who you choose to bring and what Item Level gear they’ll need to join your merry band is up to you, too—there’s no Item Level requirement for this Raid difficulty.

Dressed to Kill
A new Raid difficulty also means a new Item Level. Flexible mode will award loot with an Item Level that falls between Raid Finder and Normal quality, and will use the Raid Finder’s “per person” loot system, specialization choices, and bonus rolls, so you won’t need to worry about bringing the “wrong” person and having them win that piece of gear you’ve long been waiting for.

You Have the Keys
We plan to unlock the Flexible Raid difficulty in wings, similar to Raid Finder, but on an accelerated timetable. This new difficulty also has a separate Raid lockout from Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, allowing you to take part in all three if you so desire. You’ll also be able to complete portions of your “Glory of the Orgrimmar Raider” raid meta- achievement in Flexible mode as well as in Normal or Heroic to earn cosmetic rewards such as an epic mount. This will allow Raid groups the opportunity to switch off nights between raids to complete achievements. Finally, taking part in Flexible, Normal, or Heroic difficulty will provide access to additional rewards that won’t be available in Raid Finder.

Getting Down to Brass Tacks
As with any in-development feature, we’re continuing to refine how the Flexible Raid system will work, and we look forward to hearing your constructive feedback from your experiences on the Public Test Realm when the new system goes live.
This article was originally published in forum thread: A Raid for All Seasons: Flexible Raid Preview started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 807 Comments
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I'm divided in two.

    It's a great thing that raid difficulty scales based on how many people you have in group - it's awesome to be able to get everyone (from a 10man group) into raiding without having to deal with benching and rotations. 25man are unaffected (while i can agree that they still need to bench people, but they are also a very small minority) and can still raid like the usual.

    Until i read it was another additional layer of difficulty. I was just "why?" - if normals are a little too hard, tune them down a little. Flex raids would be awesome to use for everyone; any normal raiding guild and above (thus the most dedicated people which is still raiding) win't have any use from it; maybe we will run it the first week to get a bump to gear if needed instead of doing LFR. Then we'll go normal and forget about it.

    This thing has an awful lot of potential - too sad seeing it relegated to another "less than normal" tier. Not counting allthe legitimate issues with a truckload of tiers of gear.

    I just hope felx raids will become the standard next expansion (and maybe rescaling for old raids - form 5 people up would be really cool).
    While it is an interesting idea it will be a case of see how it pans out.. Where I have bolded while a good idea you would have a ton of QQ from those crying foul over Blizz making normals too easy especially if it was the current tier, not so much a problem when it is surpassed by the next tier but heaven forbid Blizz make things a bit easier for people we have seen all the QQ posts about that..
  1. Keile's Avatar
    Based on what GC said in an earlier tweet, there are more features in 5.4 other than this. So we may be getting more new things to complain about in the upcomming days as blizzard announces them
  1. Intwine's Avatar
    tbh, i think it is a testbed for the next xpac (i really do hope so).

    The way i see it playing out is we end up with 25lfr for easy access raiding how and when you want it and flex raids for organized/pug raiding to replace the current 10/25 raid modes.

    It is a great solution for 10man guilds that now ditch the hassle of benching people when the complete roster is online (and they now can recruit 1 or 2 extra people) and the 25man guilds that struggle with maintaining a solid 25man roster and that sometimes have to call a raid if there is only 23man online.
    it's a little awkward for a end of expansion feature but this way the get to test new formats in the live situation.
  1. mmoc4f1d4564fd's Avatar
    So there will be 3 Difficulties and 2 Sizes:
    Raid Finder(25) -Own particular lockout- Low Epics
    Flexible(10..25) -Own lockout- Medium Epics
    Normal(10)-Normal lockout- Normal Epics
    Normal(25)-Normal lockout-
    Heroic(10)-Normal lockout- Heroic Epics
    Heroic(25)-Normal lockout-

    Anyway I think that this will a fantastic feature, I'm looking forwarding to play this patch
  1. McNeil's Avatar
    Meh... not interested in this feature in the slightest. If this is that ''big feature'' they announced for 5.4, I'm very dissapointed.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Haxlax View Post
    Wow, way to kill raiding.
    Ok so adding another raid mode is going to kill raiding, wasn't something like this mentioned when LFR was introduced that LFR was going to kill raiding and as far as I can tell people are still raiding normal and heroic..

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 11:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Keile View Post
    Based on what GC said in an earlier tweet, there are more features in 5.4 other than this. So we may be getting more new things to complain about in the upcomming days as blizzard announces them
    lol yeah there will be something new for people to QQ about soon enough.
  1. mmoc01ecec85ff's Avatar
    My question is, how would you compare flex to normal?
    Flex raid with 15 man = normal 10 man in terms of boss-strength? I'm really wondering about how much this will matter!
    Especially since the loot won't be normal quality, I would think of this as 'easy mode'.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinymanuel View Post
    So there will be 3 Difficulties and 2 Sizes:
    Raid Finder(25) -Own particular lockout-
    Flexible(Don't know if it will be between 10..25, 1..40, 1..25, 10..40, I don't know) -Own lockout-
    Normal(10)-Normal lockout-
    Normal(25)-Normal lockout-
    Heroic(10)-Normal lockout-
    Heroic(25)-Normal lockout-
    It says it will be between 10 to 25..

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 11:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragezero View Post
    My question is, how would you compare flex to normal?
    Flex raid with 15 man = normal 10 man in terms of boss-strength? I'm really wondering about how much this will matter!
    Especially since the loot won't be normal quality, I would think of this as 'easy mode'.
    It could be considered realm side LFR but you can really decide who comes along and does have the option to invite friends from another server with Real Id and what not into the group..
  1. Shyzhi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Haxlax View Post
    Wow, way to kill raiding.
    I dont even see the point point of signing for a raid now.... i can just go raid when ever i like with as many friends as i like now it seems...
  1. darkarches's Avatar
    Kind of bummed tbh. I think the flex concept is interesting, but 4 levels of raiding just seems to be excessive and hard to balance, which could ultimately limit raid encounters. Hopefully they find a better way to apply the flex, possibly to 10 or 25s
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shyzhi View Post
    I dont even see the point point of signing for a raid now.... i can just go raid when ever i like with as many friends as i like now it seems...
    Thing is with guilds finding it harder to get people to join and then to keep them happy by raiding and what not then anything is better than nothing.. Heck would make filling a raid with as many as possible without having the set limit of 10 or 25.. Maybe you have you have 12 reasonably good players on but not enough for a 25 and too many for a 10, this could solve that problem all one can tell is to see if it even works..

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 11:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultramarine View Post
    Kind of bummed tbh. I think the flex concept is interesting, but 4 levels of raiding just seems to be excessive and hard to balance, which could ultimately limit raid encounters. Hopefully they find a better way to apply the flex, possibly to 10 or 25s
    That is the million dollar question is how they are going to tune the fights be very interesting to see how they pull it off.. Considering they have to factor in 10 plus different group combinations..
  1. mmoce7e2a4d193's Avatar
    And for the future they should revamp the raid and dungeon system to some form of linear progression that actually makes sense.

    Scenarios (flexible 1-3 players); ilvl of XXX
    Dungeons (flexible 4-6 players); ilvl of XXX+8
    Hc Dungeons (flexible 4-6 players); ilvl of XXX+18
    Easy Raids (flexible 8-15 players); ilvl of xxx+30
    Hc Raids (flexible 20 - 40 players); ilvl of xxx+45

    And if they introduce a new tier or dungeons in some patch, they should just raise the ilvl by 4 in dungeons and by 6 in raids.
    That way tier 2 normal dungeons don't surpass tier 1 hc dungeons and tier 2 easy raids don't surpass tier 1 hc raids. Even in tier 3 you'd basically have a straight ilvl-progress going from an easy tier-3-raid to a hard tier-1-raid.
    Or as a schematic considering a 3-tier-expansion:
    tier-1-scenarios: ilvl xxx
    tier-2-scenarios: ilvl xxx+4
    tier-3-scenarios/tier-1-dungeons: ilvl xxx+8
    tier-2-dungeons: ilvl xxx+12
    tier-3-dungeons: ilvl xxx+16
    tier-1-hc-dungeons: ilvl xxx+18
    tier-2-hc-dungeons: ilvl xxx+22
    tier-3-hc-dungeons: ilvl xxx+26
    tier-1-easyraid: ilvl xxx+30
    tier-2-easyraid: ilvl xxx+36
    tier-3-easyraid: ilvl xxx+42
    tier-1-hcraid: ilvl xxx+45
    tier-2-hcraid: ilvl xxx+51
    tier-3-hcraid: ilvl xxx+57

    You'd have a whole expansion of progress going quests/scenarios - dungeons - hc dungeons - easy raids - hard raids. And if you add a fourth tier, you'd only make tier-1 less desirable for progress, but still viable. Heck, you could even let hcraids scale higher, going 45-60-75 for all I care.
    If you wanna keep the "everyone should see everything"-mentality, which is perfectly fine, just add some sort of story-mode to the raids, make them 4-6 players flexible and on the hc dungeon ilvl.
  1. Deix-EU's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Amla View Post
    And for the future they should revamp the raid and dungeon system to some form of linear progression that actually makes sense.

    Scenarios (flexible 1-3 players); ilvl of XXX
    Dungeons (flexible 4-6 players); ilvl of XXX+8
    Hc Dungeons (flexible 4-6 players); ilvl of XXX+18
    Easy Raids (flexible 8-15 players); ilvl of xxx+30
    Hc Raids (flexible 20 - 40 players); ilvl of xxx+45

    And if they introduce a new tier or dungeons in some patch, they should just raise the ilvl by 4 in dungeons and by 6 in raids.
    That way tier 2 normal dungeons don't surpass tier 1 hc dungeons and tier 2 easy raids don't surpass tier 1 hc raids. Even in tier 3 you'd basically have a straight ilvl-progress going from an easy tier-3-raid to a hard tier-1-raid.
    Or as a schematic considering a 3-tier-expansion:
    tier-1-scenarios: ilvl xxx
    tier-2-scenarios: ilvl xxx+4
    tier-3-scenarios/tier-1-dungeons: ilvl xxx+8
    tier-2-dungeons: ilvl xxx+12
    tier-3-dungeons: ilvl xxx+16
    tier-1-hc-dungeons: ilvl xxx+18
    tier-2-hc-dungeons: ilvl xxx+22
    tier-3-hc-dungeons: ilvl xxx+26
    tier-1-easyraid: ilvl xxx+30
    tier-2-easyraid: ilvl xxx+36
    tier-3-easyraid: ilvl xxx+42
    tier-1-hcraid: ilvl xxx+45
    tier-2-hcraid: ilvl xxx+51
    tier-3-hcraid: ilvl xxx+57

    You'd have a whole expansion of progress going quests/scenarios - dungeons - hc dungeons - easy raids - hard raids. And if you add a fourth tier, you'd only make tier-1 less desirable for progress, but still viable. Heck, you could even let hcraids scale higher, going 45-60-75 for all I care.
    If you wanna keep the "everyone should see everything"-mentality, which is perfectly fine, just add some sort of story-mode to the raids, make them 4-6 players flexible and on the hc dungeon ilvl.
    And that way, when you finished the "easy" mode with your 9 mates, you can't do HC because you propose the inferior bound to be 20 players ? lol.
  1. mmoce7e2a4d193's Avatar
    Okay, make easyraids scale 10 - 40 then, or two different sizes I just wrote down my thoughts because I'd like something linear at least during a single expansion.
    And btw: The mentality that as a raider you "have" to do everything is kind of new. If your guild is big enough for hcraids, create two or three easy raid groups. if your guild is too small or casual for hcraids, why bother? take the storymode-route for the lore, ignore the loot you don't actually "need".
  1. Puri's Avatar
    I really like the idea, but they seriously should consider having flex/lfr on the same lockout.

    Running the same instance three times in a week (at least in the first weeks of the patch) on a single char will lead to quick burnout, not to mention any alts. Sure you can counter with the argument "But you don't have to!", and you are right, but while you may get entertained by immersing into the game by riding on the ground mount from one daily hub to the next I get entertained by improving my char with new items, and only the most efficient and quickest ways can deliver that.

    I also think it will be really, really difficult to balance the raids. Will you go with 12 players? Or will you take that additional one DD? Hm, but when you do, you might need an additional healer for boss x. But when we start with 14 players, for boss y it might be necessary to have an additional DD to beat the berserk. So either the raids are so easy that it doesn't matter, or the system is not as flexible as the name states.
    Hybrid classes will greatly profit from that system.

    Overall I think this will lead to replace normal/heroic raiding in the next xpac.
  1. mmoca1e94eb7cd's Avatar
    Raid HARD MODE like " MoP Challenge Mode Dungeons "

    Race and prestige progress

    - Loot : ilvl normal mode + 8 % stats.... nothing huge, compared to this INFLATION NUMBERS.

    - Normalizing gear : Normal mode + 8 ilevel at best, if players can outgear THIS content.... making the difficulty still interesting through time.

    No nerfs obviously.

    Differents colors for 10 and 25 mans Heroics.

    NO Shared Raid Lockout for 10 vs 25 normal mode.
  1. mmoc6846b5af23's Avatar
    More copies of the exact same raid, yay!
  1. rokabard's Avatar
    what a horrible horrible idea.

    at least make it share lockout with LFR. please no more forced farming for regular raiders!!!
  1. Haxlax's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Ok so adding another raid mode is going to kill raiding, wasn't something like this mentioned when LFR was introduced that LFR was going to kill raiding and as far as I can tell people are still raiding normal and heroic..

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 11:10 PM ----------



    lol yeah there will be something new for people to QQ about soon enough.
    Eh... Raid Finder has made a lot of people drop raiding.
  1. jayinjersey's Avatar
    They should have killed Normal and Heroic 10m and just made 4 distinct levels. LFR25, Flex, N25, H25

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