Method Heroic Garrosh 25 Man, Blue Tweets, Hearthstone Beta Updates, DLC #409

Closed Beta Patch – Featured Updates

Method Heroic Garrosh 25 Man World First
The 25 player Heroic Garrosh encounter has been defeated by Method.





Siege of Orgrimmar Raid Schedule
Don't forget that Siege of Orgrimmar Flex Wing 3 opens this week!




Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Classes
Dear world, if you react hyperbolically to even modest (3-5%) nerfs, then it makes it hard for us to tell when you are really concerned. (Source)

one way to deal with button bloat would be more abilities that "replaces X" (fist of justice for example).
Considered that, but if the ability only gets better, it feels weird to rename it. (Source)
On the other hand, if the abilities pick up extra effects with every replacement, the tooltips get really complex. (Source)

this statement leaves me wondering what the point of the PTR is? This could have, and should have, been easily answered in PTR
PTR catches a lot but it doesn't catch everything. There are millions more players raiding now than participated on PTR. (Source)
maybe if you didn't ignore class forums, you'd have picked this up as far back as 4.2 PTR when players picked it up
I just now looked at class forums. My conclusion: every class is benched and need buffs. How to know which claims to believe? (Source)
What about your much touted internal tracking systems that you've claimed are better than ranks/census/etc?
What I have always tried to say is that our internal tools are quite sophisticated, but no substitute for actual data. (Source)
Hardcore raiders forget that most players want to feel competitive, but their competitive =/= hardcore definition
I think you can be competitive and not hardcore. I guess it depends on your definitions. (Source)

why do you need data from millions of players? Just check what the top 1-10 guilds do on ptr ?
That is a data point of course, but not the only data point. (Source)
Consider that not everyone can deliver on the DPS that a top 10 guild can provide. (Source)
Also consider that those guilds are more focused on learning fights (without tipping their hand) than testing DPS for us. (Source)

RE:Hit/xpt caps being tedious and fiddly. Consider hit over cap -> cirt rating, xpt over cap -> haste rating? Too left field?
Not too left field. Games have done similar things successfully IMO. (Source)

I haven't seen one comment addressing this nerf, but a ton of responses to nonsense...
We do nerfs and buffs when damage doesn't match our targets, which was the case for Brewmaster. (Source)
We don't really want to get in the mode of justifying or asking permission to make changes we think are necessary. (Source)

Mage (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Across 9 kills of Thok25H, 225 players, there have been only 2 mages. Bad encounter design or bad class design?
Remember when seeing first week heroics that players are vastly undergeared. (Source)
Given that, they often have to resort to creative or even degenerate strategies to have a chance at victory. (Source)
If there are few mages on Thok H in 3-4 weeks, then it's a problem we need to address on the class or enc side. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Greg please, can i get a fair answer for why Evil eye of galakras is not reducing holy avenger cooldown? I need to understand.
IIRC only warrior talented CDs are affected. HA in particular might make the other talents less desirable. (Source)

Priest (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
"We didn't buff you because you campaigned" "we err'd in your favor because you were concerned"
Players delight in gotchas, which ultimately risks designers having to communicate less like people & more like robots. (Source)

SP's are great in multi-target fights, however single target fights we fall far behind, even more when movement is involved.
It is not a goal for all specs to tie in all situations. We fear that would erode class diversity quite a bit. (Source)
Historically, multidotting has been really effective. But if single target dotting is also effective, why play a non dot? (Source)

Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
what buffs you giving Demo to compensate the drastic nerfs? Affliction is way higher, but left unchanged?
There were Affliction nerfs too: UVLS and Haunt. (Source)
I don't understand the UVLS nerf, sure it was a decent trinket, but 40% is like using a cannon to kill an ant.
The alternative was just nerfing warlock DPS by more, which didn't feel fair to those not using the trinket. (Source)

Can you please figure out how to balance warlock pve dmg.Once again they are are too far ahead. Or should we just accept it?
We are concerned it's too high, but we are trying to figure out how much of it is just the UVLS trinket. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Where was this tension when you decided to gut rage from damage and replace it with static rage generation?
The rage from dmg model just wasn't working. Warriors were too weak and slow with bad gear and ignored rage with good gear. (Source)
Wait, since when was that a problem? Classes should get their time in the sun. Rage isn't supposed to be energy.
I don't think "I suck in 5.0 and 5.2 but rule in 5.4" is a very fun model for anyone, including the warrior. (Source)

Hearthstone Closed Beta Patch – Featured Updates
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In our previous blog, we covered some of the nitty-gritty facts about the wipe and what exactly it entails. It’s an exciting time for the Hearthstone team, since this wipe will coincide with our first major closed beta patch for both the Americas and Europe regions. Our update covers a wealth of bug fixes and quality of life improvement within Hearthstone, and today we’ll be sharing some of the highlights of this upcoming patch. Many of these changes are based on feedback that you, our valued community, provided to us on the forums.

Daily Quests
We’ve gotten a lot of comments on quests. The community has discovered some fun hidden quests, but some of our daily quests have frustrated those of you who have quests that don’t correspond to your favored class. After the patch, daily quests that require you to win with a specific class will now give you a choice between two classes, allowing you some additional flexibility.

Balance
Class balance has been a hot topic, with many of you commenting on the strength and versatility of the Rogue class compared to other classes, such as the Warrior and Priest. Rogues will have some key spells and minions adjusted to bring them more in line with the other classes. Warriors and Priests will find themselves with new tools and improved cards to round out their arsenal, and we’ve made some adjustments to the other classes here and there as well. We’ll be publishing our full patch notes so you can review these and other changes to the heroes of Hearthstone in full detail.

Golden Cards
Golden cards are fun to collect in Hearthstone, and a cool way to show off your accomplishments. Many golden cards have been updated with new animations, and there are still more to come. If you’ve helped test our in-game store and acquired your new forever-friend Gelbin Mekkatorque, check out his shiny new animation! In addition to the new animations to Golden cards, we have also added the ability to unlock Golden Basic minions at higher experience levels. Now you can shoot for creating a 100% golden card deck to really dazzle your opponent!

Crafting
We’ve received a lot of feedback regarding the crafting system, and how the crafting interface didn’t feel quite as intuitive as it should have been. Crafting is intended to be easy to access and a fun way to craft new cards for your collection, and we want that to be noticeable right away to the new player. We’ve updated the UI for our crafting system, so making cards for your collection should be even easier than before! Click the “Crafting Mode” button to access the updated crafting UI.

Social Improvements
We’ve improved our chat functionality to make it more streamlined and easier to interact with your friends. We’ve also introduced Toasts: they’re a cool addition to our social features that let your friends know when you’ve done something awesome in-game, like open a Legendary card or complete an Arena run. Combine these two improvements together and you’ll never miss an exciting moment with your card-slinging friends in Hearthstone!

Play Mode and Arena
Finally, we’re aware that a lot of discussion on the forums is revolving around Play and Arena mode, and how to make them more compelling for players to participate in. We’ve changed experience and leveling so you can max out your Hero at level 60 and earn experience in any game mode up to max level. This includes Play mode (ranked or unranked), Practice, matches against friends, and the Arena.

The rate that you acquire gold has been one of the other most-commented on topics on our forums. This patch will improve the gold output of Play mode, changing the gold generation rate from 5 gold per five wins to 10 gold per three wins. We will be monitoring this update as we progress further into closed beta and will continue to make changes as needed.

We’ve made significant changes to the Arena as well: In general, rewards gained will include less dust and more cards, as well as guaranteeing more gold for both five and six Arena wins. To further entice you to become an Arena Grand Master, an extra pack OR a golden card is now guaranteed at nine wins.

Full patch notes will be available alongside the patch, which will include the collection wipe. For more information on the wipe and what that entails, please read our blog here! Thank you for your continued feedback as we continue the closed beta testing phase of Hearthstone.

To opt-in to our closed beta test, please go here!

Dark Legacy Comics #409
DLC #409 takes a look at how zone boundaries work.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Method Heroic Garrosh 25 Man, Blue Tweets, Hearthstone Beta Updates, DLC #409 started by chaud View original post
Published on 2013-10-01 12:40 AM
167 Comments
Comments 167 Comments
  1. BatteredSausage's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    The challenge is to kill the boss on heroic mode first with the same rules. You have different rules, you are in a different race, period.

    They have better gear (higher ilvl), more gear (separate ID) and harder bosses. Really can't see how you can compare asia with US/EU in this situation.

    It's like saying 100m sprint world record is also 200m sprint world record, just because 100m was run in less time. RIDICULOUS
    Just curious but any chance you could show me the actual rules of world first race that states what you wrote is true, im talking about actual origin/author stamped and signed real deal rules or dont they exist?!?!?
    I guess everyone has there own interpretation of what 'world first' actually means....kinda makes the whole argument bogus and a joke tbh, not sure why people even bother debating it.
  1. hobbsey's Avatar
    congrats to method, i'm excited to see the video. i think this was the raid comp tho i'm not sure who was healing since i just pulled it from their current spec. looks like a nice fight for melee.

    warlock: 3
    balance (maybe resto?) druid: 1
    feral druid: 1
    rogue: 4
    mage: 2
    dk: 2
    warrior: 1
    shadow priest: 1
    monk: 1
    shaman: 1
    hunter: 2

    resto shaman: 1
    holy paladin: 1
    resto druid: 1

    prot warrior: 1
    prot pally: 1

    not sure if the person in the back is a paladin or a priest, tho it looks like a healer.
  1. Ealyssa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredSausage View Post
    Just curious but any chance you could show me the actual rules of world first race that states what you wrote is true, im talking about actual origin/author stamped and signed real deal rules or dont they exist?!?!?
    I guess everyone has there own interpretation of what 'world first' actually means....kinda makes the whole argument bogus and a joke tbh, not sure why people even bother debating it.
    Rules are made by wowprogress (essentialy counting the points. While also taking in account the 24h headstart US have on Eu. Asia having obviously its own race), blizzard (asia having way more raid ID per week and harde bosses in 25. And also boss exploiting leading to ban and achievement stripping) and common sens.

    But yeah. You can make your own rules where differents raid systems are in a same race. We don't care.
  1. therayeffect's Avatar
    Grats to Method for world first. It's really a shame Asia got cut off by Blizz and can't really participate anymore. It's also a shame that the US players can't really seem to compete that well anymore. It's not surprising that they're 2nd at best though given the advantages EU has. I really hope someone else kills him soon because it's kind of disappointing overall that it's just Method really now and it's even more disappointing that he died already. I thought he was going to be Rag-Like again but guess Blizz can't really include 25man ilvl into it's design anymore since the extra ilvl stuff. This race seemed really boring overall honestly at the end. I wonder what Method thinks of Garrosh.
  1. Shaley's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    Grats to Method for world first. It's really a shame Asia got cut off by Blizz and can't really participate anymore. It's also a shame that the US players can't really seem to compete that well anymore. It's not surprising that they're 2nd at best though given the advantages EU has. I really hope someone else kills him soon because it's kind of disappointing overall that it's just Method really now and it's even more disappointing that he died already. I thought he was going to be Rag-Like again but guess Blizz can't really include 25man ilvl into it's design anymore since the extra ilvl stuff. This race seemed really boring overall honestly at the end. I wonder what Method thinks of Garrosh.
    Part of me questions whether you actually believe anything you just said.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredSausage View Post
    Just curious but any chance you could show me the actual rules of world first race that states what you wrote is true, im talking about actual origin/author stamped and signed real deal rules or dont they exist?!?!?
    I guess everyone has there own interpretation of what 'world first' actually means....kinda makes the whole argument bogus and a joke tbh, not sure why people even bother debating it.
    And it's common sense, Sausage. The majority rules. One region of ALL the regions plays by a different set of rules, while 80% of the rest of the game plays by the "real" rules. North American company, North American version.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eren Yaeger View Post
    Imagine the gear and ilvl and lock out advantage the Chinese get as steroids. Because that's what it is. Do you still count a player who won a race even though he was on steroids? Or do you DQ him or ignore the fact that he won?0
    Being on steroids is cheating. Using more gear that Blizzard gives you is not cheating. Not hard to understand. It's like saying the olympic committee is giving asian countries a headstart on the race but the rest of the world's countries don't. If that happened and an asian competitor one there would be outrage but it would still count, it would not be cheating because it's their game their rules. And people saying Asia doesn't count unless Blizzard changes the lockouts in the west. How about the west doesn't count unless Blizzard changes the lockouts in the east. They were literally the first guild in the world to kill him on live servers. The end. If you don't like that and want it changed go to the battlenet forums and either ask that they go back to one lockout in the east (they won't they get twice as much money now) or give us double lockouts in the west.
  1. therayeffect's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaley View Post
    Part of me questions whether you actually believe anything you just said.
    I don't know what you mean by that.

    ---
    Well I just checked my notifications and I got an infraction on a much earlier post for stating that EU has an advantage because they have a larger pool to recruit from and better working conditions... lol. I guess I better not state the obvious anymore or I'll get infracted.
  1. Niight9's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Omina View Post
    So Asia has harder bosses to compensate for the higher ilvl gear? Method is world #2.
    Yeah harder boss in 25men, the 10men is still the same .... so they cheese it
  1. Vulgrym's Avatar
    Nobody 'cheated'. This is simply a function of Blizzard foolishly dividing their players along a meta-game they either don't understand or continually ignore.

    The only thing to be done is list the winners of each 'race' separately, just like 10 and 25 is currently (at least by rational people).

    Loot accumulation is a key mechanic that drives progression (along with iteration, organization etc.). If Blizzard accelerates it for a segment of WoW's population, that segment needs to be tracked separately for the purposes of progression.

    All of this hate needs to be directed towards Blizzard IMO.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Also LOL at the mods for infracting people now who are sharing their congratulations and their OPINION that it is world second. Even more so that the "asia don't count" people are being extremely rude and personally insulting. Stay classy mmochamp.
  1. Sprinky's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Being on steroids is cheating. Using more gear that Blizzard gives you is not cheating
    The Chinese guild even cheated by their own standards using the 25 man guild to funnel the gear into the 10 man kill (25 too hard). Only trolls would view that kill as world first.

    The same trolls would call Method out for cheating if they re-rolled on Asia servers and did the same thing.
  1. mmoce1e4d9dec7's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Even more so that the "asia don't count" people are being extremely rude and personally insulting. Stay classy mmochamp.
    They cannot race for something they were never part of.
  1. therayeffect's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Also LOL at the mods for infracting people now who are sharing their congratulations and their OPINION that it is world second. Even more so that the "asia don't count" people are being extremely rude and personally insulting. Stay classy mmochamp.
    But it IS different. Different lockouts, different gear, different bosses, different rules. I don't think it's fair to Asia, they have very good players who should be able to compete and I'd like to see them compete because more competition is better. I take nothing away from them and grats to the Asia guys who killed Garrosh in their region but it's different, whether it's fair or not, it IS different. It's the same as how EU has advantages. They have more people and thus a larger recruitment pool. On top of that, their working conditions are better too because they have more lax rules when it comes to vacation and stuff. These are NUMBERS. Numbers don't lie. It's different in that it still counts for 'world first' because the 'sandbox' of the game is still the same, they just have more people and less restrictions on how to play in the sandbox because of reality (Which Blizz can't do anything about.)
  1. Glaziola's Avatar
    Congratz on world second still a nice accomplishment.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    But it IS different. Different lockouts, different gear, different bosses, different rules. I don't think it's fair to Asia, they have very good players who should be able to compete and I'd like to see them compete because more competition is better. I take nothing away from them and grats to the Asia guys who killed Garrosh in their region but it's different, whether it's fair or not, it IS different. It's the same as how EU has advantages. They have more people and thus a larger recruitment pool. On top of that, their working conditions are better too because they have more lax rules when it comes to vacation and stuff. These are NUMBERS. Numbers don't lie. It's different in that it still counts for 'world first' because the 'sandbox' of the game is still the same, they just have more people and less restrictions on how to play in the sandbox because of reality (Which Blizz can't do anything about.)
    That's not the point. The point is they're infracting people for their opinion, an opinion the mods don't share. It's pretty obvious about half the people believe it's world first and half believe it's world second and they're throwing out bans if you don't share their viewpoint.
  1. fibbers's Avatar
    grats on world second, almost had it
  1. Glaziola's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    That's not the point. The point is they're infracting people for their opinion, an opinion the mods don't share. It's pretty obvious about half the people believe it's world first and half believe it's world second and they're throwing out bans if you don't share their viewpoint.
    Even if they keep infracting people or banning them it wont change facts :P
    What happened, happened and it wont change no matter what.
  1. Trakanonn's Avatar
    Cant wait to see video

    THank you Mods for infracting these World 2nd trolls.. theyre just trying to rustle jimmies.

    No jimmies were rustled this day.


    Method #1 as usual, and they raid LESS hours than Blood legion.
  1. mmoca20fa69a21's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Being on steroids is cheating. Using more gear that Blizzard gives you is not cheating. Not hard to understand. It's like saying the olympic committee is giving asian countries a headstart on the race but the rest of the world's countries don't. If that happened and an asian competitor one there would be outrage but it would still count, it would not be cheating because it's their game their rules. And people saying Asia doesn't count unless Blizzard changes the lockouts in the west. How about the west doesn't count unless Blizzard changes the lockouts in the east. They were literally the first guild in the world to kill him on live servers. The end. If you don't like that and want it changed go to the battlenet forums and either ask that they go back to one lockout in the east (they won't they get twice as much money now) or give us double lockouts in the west.
    Asians competes with the west in 25man. 25man gives server's first in Asia, hence 25man is where the competetion is. The hardcore Asian guilds competes in 25man, but Method killed him first in 25man. Not that difficult to understand.
  1. Karei's Avatar
    There is quite a big difference between riding a 100m twice a week on a bike with trainingwheels than once a week with a unicycle and then having oddballs call that's a fair deal

    Point, fact
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