Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by banadona View Post
    I don't know why am I trying to explain this to you since you've already proven to be incapable of understanding what I'm writing. In MoP blizz is forcing the usage of flying mounts, maybe not extensively but still you can't do the tillers dailies without flying. For everything else I use fp's and my ground mount because I pay a lot to be able to see the fu**ing game, not skip through it on every turn. Using a flying mount is like buying a book that has a little extra leaflet on it that summerises the whole plot in a few sentences. Why bother reading the book then? To experience the book in its entirety. The same thing applies to the game. They want to tell a story and they won't because some deuchebag will skip it, even unwillingly by using their flying mount. I would expect people to be happy for being able to see more content just because they won't skip it but hey, surprise again! So again, I'm very happy because of this as it makes the world a bigger and more epic place, not some textures and mobs you can just fly over. And if you whine that you waste your precious time just don't play the game of you can't spend a few more minutes to ride someplace. Plus, you can still use flying mounts in old zones if you live flying that much.
    so to basically sum up your post you are saying you dislike flying mounts because there are areas designed with flying mounts in mind. Okay. That's easy to fix though and sounds like it wont be a problem in WoD anyways. So now why cant I fly if you prefer to use ground mounts then? We just like different methods of travel why do you have to restrict mine?
  1. ColbaneX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    so to basically sum up your post you are saying you dislike flying mounts because there are areas designed with flying mounts in mind. Okay. That's easy to fix though and sounds like it wont be a problem in WoD anyways. So now why cant I fly if you prefer to use ground mounts then? We just like different methods of travel why do you have to restrict mine?
    I like to curse in game and there is a profanity filter. So why can I be reported for language?
  1. deathonabun's Avatar
    Prepare your anus for astronomically priced herbs and ore.
  1. Serissa's Avatar
    I only hope for WoD release 2-3 weeks before quarter end. Can't wait to see how much subs drop in quarter report
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    I like to curse in game and there is a profanity filter. So why can I be reported for language?
    apples to oranges much?
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    I'm sorry how does this even apply to flying vs ground mounts. The main argument for ground mounts only is to experience the world if you want to race everywhere instead there is no reason to. If you really want an answer then find a more reasonable middle ground for both mount types to reach. but all of this is pointless as that's minor. Youre hardly disadvantaged because you aren't flying especially when you have every choice to do so and just use your ground mount when youre not on your random race across the continent.
    im going to try again... they are putting senario style content.. into the game in real time. Where are the end there is a chest with treasure in it. This means epics they said so.

    They do not want you to hop on a flying mount and skip to the end, they wand you to hack and slash your way through till you get to it.
  1. Zalraki's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    flight paths people.. flight paths, we used to use them in tbc before we got out 280% mounts
    You mean those same time-sink flight paths that Blizzard has been forcing down our throats for years now? The ones with few direct routes, where you fly in a circle at almost every stop? All because Blizzard wants to slow down the game and make you look at all the pretty things they made.

    Not sure about you but I don't like be forced to see the same things over and over and over while flying to a point I actually need to be
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I think a lot of these people need to go watch the blizzcon panels. I'd probably bitch too, but since I know the reason this is all happening. It doesn't bother me
    I get what there trying to do now. I picked that up over the last hour we have all been here wasting are time. But I still not a fan. I will give it a try. I will wait for the beta testers to give my final judgement.
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Serissa View Post
    I only hope for WoD release 2-3 weeks before quarter end. Can't wait to see how much subs drop in quarter report
    probably negative X

    Yeah, can I vote for a negative decrease in subs.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    im going to try again... they are putting senario style content.. into the game in real time. Where are the end there is a chest with treasure in it. This means epics they said so.

    They do not want you to hop on a flying mount and skip to the end, they wand you to hack and slash your way through till you get to it.
    And there are other ways to avoid this scenario than banning flying outright. Your point? Besides sounds to me a lot like MoP theres lots of little chests everywhere that give you little rewards for exploration (and they never stated epics)
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    And there are other ways to avoid this scenario than banning flying outright. Your point? Besides sounds to me a lot like MoP theres lots of little chests everywhere that give you little rewards for exploration (and they never stated epics)
    Yes they did
  1. ColbaneX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    apples to oranges much?
    Not at all. You are complaining about restrictions, I'm complaining about restrictions. Seems like Fiji's to Golden Delicious' to me.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    probably negative X

    Yeah, can I vote for a negative decrease in subs.
    A miracle we actually agree on something again lol. Yeah I hate this idea of removing flying till 6.1 but I actually believe WoD will bring a lot of people back (I know some friends that will be coming back). Just hopefully they come to their senses on flying before launch.
  1. ColbaneX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    A miracle we actually agree on something again lol. Yeah I hate this idea of removing flying till 6.1 but I actually believe WoD will bring a lot of people back (I know some friends that will be coming back). Just hopefully they come to their senses on flying before launch.
    They did. Hence why they are doing what they are doing. YOU should stop being entitled.
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    A miracle we actually agree on something again lol. Yeah I hate this idea of removing flying till 6.1 but I actually believe WoD will bring a lot of people back (I know some friends that will be coming back). Just hopefully they come to their senses on flying before launch.
    I hope. Getting sick of the "OMG WoW is dying" threads.
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    A miracle we actually agree on something again lol. Yeah I hate this idea of removing flying till 6.1 but I actually believe WoD will bring a lot of people back (I know some friends that will be coming back). Just hopefully they come to their senses on flying before launch.
    I am assuming there is some kind of middle ground, Honestly, giving everyone 60% flying till 6.1 would work.. Make it like... they sky is too windy to fly fast.. or something
  1. Mukki's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    I'll be passing on the expansion then. Lack of content and not allowing people to use mounts they EARNED or PAID FOR is just fucking ridiculous.
    Name a single Blizzard store mount that you can't use in a non-flying area. Go ahead, you can't.
  1. kail's Avatar
    Great move Blizz. It may have been a tough choice, but it was the right one IMO. Flying mounts needs to fade or get fixed.

    A little thing I'd like added is being able to use you own mount for the FPs, so I can still ride in style.
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I am assuming there is some kind of middle ground, Honestly, giving everyone 60% flying till 6.1 would work.. Make it like... they sky is too windy to fly fast.. or something
    I could live with that. I just really like flying. ...lot.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Alright I've had a fun chat guys but its getting late now. Guess we will just have to wait to see what happens at launch. Either way I cant wait to get my hands on WoD even if I have to lug around on my ground mounts for a while

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