Battle for Azeroth PvP Changes Recap

Originally Posted by Naturalna

can you stay on topic? Where did I say I dont care about PvE? Or pets or mounts? I have some 600 pets, some PvP mounts from Legion as well...

But please explain to me why should I bother getting ganked 24/7 by horde in 1v4 scenarios for some battle pet or a mount? Stay on topic please. Saying "your hair is green so you should rather play CS:GO and gtfo" is just kind of your opinion that brings 0 value to dealing with issues that are going to arise.

I hope we all agree that in order to bring more people into world PvP it has to be balanced (not going to happen) or it has to give huge rewards (again, not going to happen). Do you have any good argument why will people opt into this system purely for some cosmetic rewards?

When did I go off topic? In any activity if you want the reward you need to perform the task that rewards it. If you don't want to turn on your pvp flag to earn something, then you obviously don't want it enough. It's no different than the challenge skins or the title for 100,000 honorable kills or such. I don't like to do arena or battlegrounds so I accept that I don't want the rewards that come from them enough to do something I despise doing. Same thing here. Complaining that you "have" to do something you hate to earn a reward you want is the epitome of entitle imo.

Originally Posted by cparle87

When did I go off topic? In any activity if you want the reward you need to perform the task that rewards it. If you don't want to turn on your pvp flag to earn something, then you obviously don't want it enough. It's no different than the challenge skins or the title for 100,000 honorable kills or such. I don't like to do arena or battlegrounds so I accept that I don't want the rewards that come from them enough to do something I despise doing. Same thing here. Complaining that you "have" to do something you hate to earn a reward you want is the epitome of entitle imo.

are you blind? Im not crying, im not whining nor am I complaining...wtf? Seriously...I am just pointing out that people will not participate for rewards such as these and you turn it around, make up nonsense and go personal. This is not about me or you, its about whole playerbase which suffers from huge faction imbalance in PvP participation. My question still stands: why would average Joe opt in world PvP if he is going to get facerolled in 1v4 gankfest? For 5% extra experience or bonus rep? Thats the issue here. I personally dont care about the rewards because I only care about balance gameplay which is not going to happen based on information we have.

Originally Posted by Naturalna

are you blind? Im not crying, im not whining nor am I complaining...wtf? Seriously...I am just pointing out that people will not participate for rewards such as these and you turn it around, make up nonsense and go personal. This is not about me or you, its about whole playerbase which suffers from huge faction imbalance in PvP participation. My question still stands: why would average Joe opt in world PvP if he is going to get facerolled in 1v4 gankfest? For 5% extra experience or bonus rep? Thats the issue here. I personally dont care about the rewards because I only care about balance gameplay which is not going to happen based on information we have.

Personal insults are not needed. As I said before, if you're not willing to do what's needed to earn the reward than you don't want it enough. That's a simple concept. Average Joe, if he wants the bonus exp, rep, and 'other things' they said will turn on his pvp toggle. If he doesn't want it bad enough, he can accept it and do without.

Is the pvp gear will return?

Originally Posted by Jotunhammer

It is WRONG to reward extra those that sign up for PvP when doing same quests as others.
It is sending a signal that if you want to level faster then you are indeed forced to go PvP
and if your not a PvP and only want to enjoy PvE then you are screwed because Blizzard
wants to force everyone into world PvP.

If they need to intencify world PvP this much, then it's clearly not as popular as people think. Else, it would not be needed.

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Originally Posted by cparle87

Personal insults are not needed. As I said before, if you're not willing to do what's needed to earn the reward than you don't want it enough. That's a simple concept. Average Joe, if he wants the bonus exp, rep, and 'other things' they said will turn on his pvp toggle. If he doesn't want it bad enough, he can accept it and do without.

They can go die in a fire if they think that I will turn on PvP just to get some bonus exp.

Originally Posted by Xtech

Go and kill a Mistweaver monk or a Resto Shaman.. Then come back here and write about killing healers, the game should be balanced around 1v1, not everyone goes around doing 3v3, as a warrior main I hate pvping, we are sitting ducks vs range, killing healers is a nightmare, I have more chance on soloing a mythic boss in HFC ffs, they need to stop designing the game around 3v3 arenas and start focusing on world pvp/1v1/rated BG's... All big maps are pro range and anti melee, once you balance that out then you have a great pvp experience for all..

The thing you have to understand is, that if you balance it for 1v1 OR rbg OR Arena, then it will be unbalanced for all the other modes. Thats just how it works especially if you work with so many factors. There is no "do that and all will be happy".
Just because you like 1v1 doesn't mean the next person does.

And tbh I don't see why a warrior with 2 Charges, slows and a jump loses to every range, thats just BS.

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Originally Posted by Naturalna

then go ahead and do the math, PvP participation is 60:40 horde:alliance ratio, show me the math, destroy me, come on, show me how are they going to balance those numbers on every single server, distribute 60 horde and 40 alliance players so that every server/phased zone has 1:1 ratio of horde:alliance

its either 6:4 ratio horde favoured gankfest which will result in all alliance opting out during the first month, basically a disaster (Ashran 2.0 type of stuff) because those people will never turn it on again no matter what changes they make on the way (history shows us they are horrible at bandade-fixing broken stuff in the game).
The other possibility is 4:4 on some servers while some will be 2:0, basically free stuff for horde (or horde will get nothing in such situation), its bad either way.

"it will be 60/40 is nonsense, it will probably be balanced numbers wise for each faction" why? Nothing points towards your "probably". Do you have any facts to back your thinking? Im not talking about distribution of players on PvP realms, who cares about that lol. 60:40 is instanced PvP faction ratio. People who voluntarily opt into PvP today from all servers, PvP, PvE, RP, whatever.

A quick google search tells me that the overall faction distribution is 49-51. As open world PvP will be part of World quests there is no telling how many people will opt in. Those number you are talking about are instanced PvP characters(?) and therefore not really representative of the numbers we can expect.
There are people (my friends and me included) who don't really like the stat templates. They balanced the game, yes, but I like to use my PvE Trinkets. We never play bgs/arena but often do World PvP.

That shows that we can't tell NOW how many people will use this feature LATER.

"It will be a 6:4 gankfest" From what I can tell how blizzard uses phasing right now there are roughly 20 people in one phasing - sometimes more sometimes less - so we are speaking of one or two people more per PHASING, which can be quite big for a world quest, for one faction. Thats not much, especially as you can expect people to opt into OPvP and just do their quest without attacking other players.

"Horde will get nothing in a 2-0 scenario" I don't think PvP Kills will be part of the requirement to get extra loot, so it would be free stuff for the horde.

"Do you have any facts to back your thinking" Nothing but common sense. If they use special phasings that ONLY PvP players join, then there will be some kind of queue like Ashran which will invite new players only if there are enough players on the other side. If not, then you will probably join a new phasing.

Yes there is a "probably" again but neither you nor I work at Blizz or can tell the future, so we just have to wait and see how it plays out. If it is shit, then don't use it and continue playing only bgs/arena.

Originally Posted by Minipom

A quick google search tells me that the overall faction distribution is 49-51. As open world PvP will be part of World quests there is no telling how many people will opt in. Those number you are talking about are instanced PvP characters(?) and therefore not really representative of the numbers we can expect.
There are people (my friends and me included) who don't really like the stat templates. They balanced the game, yes, but I like to use my PvE Trinkets. We never play bgs/arena but often do World PvP.

That shows that we can't tell NOW how many people will use this feature LATER.

"It will be a 6:4 gankfest" From what I can tell how blizzard uses phasing right now there are roughly 20 people in one phasing - sometimes more sometimes less - so we are speaking of one or two people more per PHASING, which can be quite big for a world quest, for one faction. Thats not much, especially as you can expect people to opt into OPvP and just do their quest without attacking other players.

"Horde will get nothing in a 2-0 scenario" I don't think PvP Kills will be part of the requirement to get extra loot, so it would be free stuff for the horde.

"Do you have any facts to back your thinking" Nothing but common sense. If they use special phasings that ONLY PvP players join, then there will be some kind of queue like Ashran which will invite new players only if there are enough players on the other side. If not, then you will probably join a new phasing.

Yes there is a "probably" again but neither you nor I work at Blizz or can tell the future, so we just have to wait and see how it plays out. If it is shit, then don't use it and continue playing only bgs/arena.

well instanced PvP is the best estimate we have at our disposal because its the people who voluntarily "turn PvP on", they are looking for it, overall faction distribution tells us nothing

sure many people will turn it on in the beginning but will soon find out there is faction imbalance, thats why I say its going to be Ashran 2.0 type of system, the moment horde gets upper hand the hordies who just try out new system will keep it on, alliance players will turn it off and difference will grow larger

I dont claim I know the future, but I know how PvP population behaves today and without other significant changes to PvP I dont see this system working

If you play PvP atleast from time to time then write down most glaring issues PvP has, now does BfA fix any of them? I seriously doubt that.

Blizzard has proven time and time again they can't balance PvP and ESPECIALLY World PvP if their lives depended on it. Sometimes tanks are unkillable death machines. Sometimes healers are unkillable while dishing out tons of damage unless you have a coordinated team of 4 people to bring them down. Sometimes you die from 100% to 0% in 3 seconds, sometimes you get ganked and when you defend yourself the agressor can't be punished, because he jumped, rolled/flying tiger kicked away, vanished or dashed out of combat.

It takes a whole new level of incompetence to be in a PvP balancing team at Blizzard.

I'm avoiding any form in PvP in WoW like wildfire.

Great idea. The bonus should be like an extra heirloom because there will be a much higher chance of dying. Casuals will whine but tough shit.

we need A chill xpck

Originally Posted by Minipom

The thing you have to understand is, that if you balance it for 1v1 OR rbg OR Arena, then it will be unbalanced for all the other modes. Thats just how it works especially if you work with so many factors. There is no "do that and all will be happy".
Just because you like 1v1 doesn't mean the next person does.

And tbh I don't see why a warrior with 2 Charges, slows and a jump loses to every range, thats just BS.

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So you call this https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ga...aderboards/3v3 BS???? Yeah go figure, I hope they don't force us warriors to go range in BfA, just like the CLUSTER F*** in Ashran....

Lol @ all these PvE carebears , no wonder the community and quality of the game went down the drain when these mofo's can only compete in spamming 4 skills in endless M+ runs. The PvP aspect of this game brought the game to new heights/esports it all started back in vanilla and it probably ended after Cata.

Shame the whole premise of this game was Horde Vs Alliance not kill X dragon , loot and repeat then go to sleep. It's on blizzard they messed everything PvP wise from gearing , pruning , to stat distribution and ended when they catered to these PvE plebs who can only do one thing left click a target.

No matter what they do nothing will save this game after this Legion absolute joke of expansion. So all the RP kids can rejoice they're endless scripted fights won't change ! Keep at it boyz !

Originally Posted by Naturalna

well instanced PvP is the best estimate we have at our disposal because its the people who voluntarily "turn PvP on", they are looking for it, overall faction distribution tells us nothing

sure many people will turn it on in the beginning but will soon find out there is faction imbalance, thats why I say its going to be Ashran 2.0 type of system, the moment horde gets upper hand the hordies who just try out new system will keep it on, alliance players will turn it off and difference will grow larger

I dont claim I know the future, but I know how PvP population behaves today and without other significant changes to PvP I dont see this system working

If you play PvP atleast from time to time then write down most glaring issues PvP has, now does BfA fix any of them? I seriously doubt that.

Instanced PvP is completly different content because of stattemplated and objectives, you will find people who never join a bg or arena just because you can get extra loot/xp from world quests.
Also it's way quicker than those PvP modes as you don't commit to 5-30 min PvP but instead turn it on and if there is a PvP god nearby then you just turn it off again. People don't have to die to a 20 man premade for 20 min.

But to get back to the problem: Why do you complain about a feature that was just announced in it's most basic form, not even implemented on beta/PTR?
Why not just let it play out and see if it will work? Even if it won't work, it's a relatively small feature that won't cut a new bg map or raid. As long as they fix problems like oneshots (which they did before Antorus launched, which shows they care at least a little bit) the feature will at least be fun to try.
Or be helpful and try to find a solution instead of "It won't work, OPvP sucks!"

I feel like there needs to be an option for occasionally. I'm definitely going to try the new world PvP system but I'm not going to commit to "Always" doing world PvP.

Originally Posted by Xtech

So you call this https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ga...aderboards/3v3 BS???? Yeah go figure, I hope they don't force us warriors to go range in BfA, just like the CLUSTER F*** in Ashran....

I don't think warriors are not in the top arena teams because they get kited, as there are wheelchairs...eh I mean DKs in the top 25. I think they lack Utility, like hardCC, or spread damage to compete against the top tier. But that doesn't mean they are unplayable (as you can see at #95). It's the same for PvE - just because the top 10 guilds run 10 affli + shadows doesnt mean it's mandatory but it makes things easier/faster.

As for Ashran: yeah, being a melee sucks there, but that is a problem that won't happen in OPvP or those islands as it's not 40vs40 on one single objective. As I said, the game isn't balanced for that, it's designed somewhere around 2-5 people hitting you, not 40.

Originally Posted by Minipom

I don't think warriors are not in the top arena teams because they get kited, as there are wheelchairs...eh I mean DKs in the top 25. I think they lack Utility, like hardCC, or spread damage to compete against the top tier. But that doesn't mean they are unplayable (as you can see at #95). It's the same for PvE - just because the top 10 guilds run 10 affli + shadows doesnt mean it's mandatory but it makes things easier/faster.

As for Ashran: yeah, being a melee sucks there, but that is a problem that won't happen in OPvP or those islands as it's not 40vs40 on one single objective. As I said, the game isn't balanced for that, it's designed somewhere around 2-5 people hitting you, not 40.

I understand what you are saying but still, the game is way to anti-melee, they need to figure that out asap, it's annoying, the mount of pressure you get vs range is ridicules, I've tried 2 range classes so far, a warlock and a hunter, I swear to you I have no pressure what so ever, no sweaty hands or the thought of 50 things going through my head at all, vs my warrior, oh boy, you get 50 thoughts going through your head none stop, do you target the OP boomkin? the hunter? or the immortal paladin throwing he's skills at you and staying out of your weapons range... It was a bad example but still, thats what we usually face none stop, there is a lot I can go through but don't want to, cause this isn't going to change anything.... I bet I will be forced to change my fav class in BfA.. Hence even thinking about it right now (which I really don't want to, I love this class too much) :P

Originally Posted by Jotunhammer

It is WRONG to reward extra those that sign up for PvP when doing same quests as others.
It is sending a signal that if you want to level faster then you are indeed forced to go PvP
and if your not a PvP and only want to enjoy PvE then you are screwed because Blizzard
wants to force everyone into world PvP.

fucking casual

honestly this is getting pathetic, they add a new bg or new arena maps and expect anyone to be excited about it. It's recycled garbage and obviously fillers to try and keep the game alive, they do nothing innovative anymore
and the fucking sad part is what pvpers actually want isn't even anything innovative its just simple upgrades/changes that they don't even give a shit enough to do

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and to all the damn idiots saying "if you want to level faster then you are indeed forced to go PvP
and if your not a PvP and only want to enjoy PvE then you are screwed because Blizzard
wants to force everyone into world PvP"

YOUR GONA LEVEL SLOWER IF YOU'RE GETTING KILLED EVERY 5MINUTES SO GUESS WHAT? THE ONLY THING THE BONUS XP DOES IS NEGATE THAT - USE YOUR DAMN BRAIN YOU WERE BORN WITH IT FOR A REASON.

Part of Blizzards reasoning listed as allowing people who are on PvP servers to remain there with their friends while not being forced into PvP.
How will this work when I opt out of PvP and then group up with my two friends who opted in?
Will I then be forced to into PvP for grouping with them?
If so then this is no different from a server jump as I still can't group with my friends.

blizz already killed what was left of desire to pvp for most of the veteran pvpers
to this point we already admitted that they left pvp to die and no amount of "changes" is going to fix the big amount of damage they did to it.

sorry for the bad english