Shadowlands - Flying Update, Target Cap AoE Spells, New DK Runeforges, DLC #723

Originally Posted by terminaltrip421

so we can't jump between expansions if we've done max level ...we have to stick with just one?

They've said you will be able to if you want.

It does not matter what the reason was, it does matter though what would help now, to get you to better rewards if you are not good/geared enough.

Originally Posted by Galaar

Nor did I say that. You apparently cannot read. New players are required to level from 10-50 in BFA. Thus, they should make enough gold to afford flight at level 30 and should easily be able to afford it for their alts. Existing players should also be able to afford 250g for alts to purchase flight at level 30.

What if I want to start a new character in a new realm, which I won't have any high level characters?

Originally Posted by Galaar

Now for those saying you absolutely have to have flight to level in cata, you're full of s**t. You can level in Cata without flight.

Deepholm and Twilight Highlands say hi.

Originally Posted by Galaar

This is not a hard concept maybe you're just dumb?

Projecting much?

Originally Posted by FelPlague

you can do most of the zone, you never have to finish each zone.

What if I want to finish the zone? Why I should be locked out until later because of an arbitrary design?

Originally Posted by FelPlague

idk if you have heard but *cough* there is this thing called you know... scaling? you know, like, you dont NEED to do deepholm till like ya know, last, ya know, you can go to any of the yeah know zones in any order? cause like this has been this way since ya know like BFA prepatch ya know?
to get 1-50 is "mostly complete 1 whole expasnion"
getting 10-30 (as you need to do the starting experiance) only actually requires 1 and a half zones, so easy to do most of 2 zones, like mount hyjal, twilight highlands, uldum which you can do most without flying, or vashj which you can do 100% without flying.

Originally Posted by FelPlague

Hey umm hey have you umm heard of a sorry thing called the alpha?
Where you can uhh you know go in like right now?
And how you could and stil can do them you know in like any you know order?
and 10-30 only requires you to sorta complete 2 zones?

Originally Posted by FelPlague

Hey, did you know, right now, in bfa, you can go do the zones
and hey did you know, in the alpha, you can still go to the zones?

"HEY UMM DID YOU KNUWWWW, UHHHH, UMMMM, YOU KNOW UMMM, I REPLY LIKE AN ANNOYING DUM DUM"

You are very annoying like your profile picture.

Originally Posted by chilblains

What if I want to start a new character in a new realm, which I won't have any high level characters?



Deepholm and Twilight Highlands say hi.



Projecting much?



What if I want to finish the zone? Why I should be locked out until later because of an arbitrary design?







"HEY UMM DID YOU KNUWWWW, UHHHH, UMMMM, YOU KNOW UMMM, I REPLY LIKE AN ANNOYING DUM DUM"

You are very annoying like your profile picture.

The man who last lost all cohesive points starts to attack others.. Adorable

You do realise its exactly the same as now right? Or do you go straight into deepholme and twilight Highlands at level 20? Nope... Nothing changes there.

Originally Posted by RyusekiV2

Starfall remains uncapped. Nice.

Starfall and Unholy can be useful from beginning to end of the expansion, I like it. People who don't play these 2 won't understand. Not that boomy was useless or anything, but at least they won't fall into the cracks. Also looks like Breath will stay uncapped? You might actually be able to designate a DPS spot for a cleave now, instead of just rogue/rogue/demonhunter(mage) the entire expansion.

My only thoughts on the AoE cap boil down to how certain encounters will be handled from now on.
For instance, fights like Vexiona and Hive Mind. Is Blizzard going to lower the amount of adds that spawn or potentially lower the damage requirements/health of all mobs to almost trivial levels? On fights like these where there are 8-10 adds that spawn the AlE change can really screw with how they are killed. Even outside or raids this can affect certain bosses (though those are few and far between).

Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero

I've done it. It's boring. Gathering everything up and using AoE for every single encounter requires absolutely no skill.

What key level have you done this on?

The thing is that capping AOE will not introduce more skillful play because the mobs will still be the same and people will just make smaller pulls, so everything become less dangerous. And if they increase the difficulty of the mobs then they don't need a target cap because people wont be able to pull big anyway.

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Originally Posted by kansor

These changes are obviously done for the sake of M+.

SO WHY NOT MAKE THEM M+ ONLY? Christ.

Or why not make the mobs in M+ harder? This way groups wont be able to pull big. No need to capping AOE.

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Originally Posted by longevity

limiting an AOE is so unintuitive for a player

whatever problem they think they are solving with this, it is creating a likely more significant user experience problem that really shouldn't exist

Exactly. If they want to get rid of big pulls in M+ then they should just make the mobs more difficult. Blizzard say that players are able to take down large groups of enemies without the players ever facing a proportionate level of danger.... well then increase the danger you fools instead of putting some weird artificial restriction on players.

Originally Posted by Kaver

What key level have you done this on?

The thing is that capping AOE will not introduce more skillful play because the mobs will still be the same and people will just make smaller pulls, so everything become less dangerous. And if they increase the difficulty of the mobs then they don't need a target cap because people wont be able to pull big anyway.

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Or why not make the mobs in M+ harder? This way groups wont be able to pull big. No need to capping AOE.

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Exactly. If they want to get rid of big pulls in M+ then they should just make the mobs more difficult. Blizzard say that players are able to take down large groups of enemies without the players ever facing a proportionate level of danger.... well then increase the danger you fools instead of putting some weird artificial restriction on players.

With your wanted changes it won’t stop the meta of certain specs. Combat Rogues and DHs will still be highly desired while other classes that lack the same AoE will be left by the wayside without the AoE cap. Yes, Combat Rogues will still have high utility, but that is something else that will be indirectly changed by this.
The AoE change will (potentially and hopefully) do away with the stigma of certain specs being terrible for things like m+ and bring them all more in line.
Increasing the danger, as you put it, also affects low level keys, making the disparity between meta and non meta specs that much bigger, as even lower keys would start wanting these specific specs to complete.

Originally Posted by Eapoe

With your wanted changes it won’t stop the meta of certain specs. Combat Rogues and DHs will still be highly desired while other classes that lack the same AoE will be left by the wayside without the AoE cap. Yes, Combat Rogues will still have high utility, but that is something else that will be indirectly changed by this.
The AoE change will (potentially and hopefully) do away with the stigma of certain specs being terrible for things like m+ and bring them all more in line.
Increasing the danger, as you put it, also affects low level keys, making the disparity between meta and non meta specs that much bigger, as even lower keys would start wanting these specific specs to complete.

The meta is also a problem. But it is mostly based on utility. Some classes got very bad AOE, but that could be fixed simply by giving them better AOE. It's funny people mention the Outlaw Rogue a lot (combat as you call it) because the Outlaw Rogue doesn't even have very good damage anymore. Specs like BM hunter, Fire mage, Arms warrior etc. do a lot more overall dungeon damage than Outlaw Rogue. However, the Rogue just got such insane utility that it will always be a part of the meta. The reason why you don't see a lot more Arms warriors as part of the meta is because dps Warriors got really bad utility for M+.

But in relation to reducing Big pulls I still believe it's better to make big pulls more difficulty rather than restricting specs in terms of AOE with a hard cap.

AOE will still work fine, it still randomly chooses a target so it isn't like other targets will not get hit, they are just normalizing AOE damage which makes it easier for them to tune content, it reduces burst AOE damage so less spikes means more control for encounters in all content for the devs.

Originally Posted by Kaver

Exactly. If they want to get rid of big pulls in M+ then they should just make the mobs more difficult. Blizzard say that players are able to take down large groups of enemies without the players ever facing a proportionate level of danger.... well then increase the danger you fools instead of putting some weird artificial restriction on players.

I don't see how these changes solve anything either way. They wouldn't have changed the MDI... AT ALL... because Beast Cleave and Eye Beam are still unlimited, which boggles my mind. Actually, it doesn't explicitly say that Death Sweep is affected by the Blade Dance limitation either. In fact, maybe they should have waited to pull the trigger on this to a time when Purification Protocol isn't a thing, since chain mass stunning some of the most dangerous mobs with the possibility to one shot them goes a long way toward that "proportionate danger" problem.

Originally Posted by Iem

So they change everyones AoE target-cap except demonhunters eye-beam, lol?

It has to be channeled so yeah it's not getting capped.

Originally Posted by Onikaroshi

Weird levels... I don't think you can feasibly hit 30 (halfway between 10 and 50) without flying in Cata, they would need to change something.

Back in the day, you got a Loaner Mount at level 77, when you levelled in WotLK and Cold Weather Flying was locked to 80.

That mount and that mount alone, let you fly in Northrend at a staggering +60% speed, until you reached 80 and could get the real flying.



Maybe something similar will be done.

Originally Posted by FuxieDK

Back in the day, you got a Loaner Mount at level 77, when you levelled in WotLK and Cold Weather Flying was locked to 80.

That mount and that mount alone, let you fly in Northrend at a staggering +60% speed, until you reached 80 and could get the real flying.



Maybe something similar will be done.

Cold weather flying was available at 77 during Wrath, not 80 https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Cold_Weather_Flying. Hell, in patch 4.2 they let mains buy it for alts and you could fly at 68 in Northrend.

Originally Posted by Rochana

Pretty sure that you can do a good chunk of Hyjal too (if not all of it) without requiring any flying. At least I recall being able to just ride from questzone to questzone within it without ever needing flying.

Nah you can actually do them, its just kinda a pain in the ass

The intended change of this AOE "nerf" is to prevent the (at least semi) spammable or longer duration AOE attacks from hitting enormously large crowds to make AOE a more balanced affair across many classes. Some are still going to be better than others yes but hopefully none will be pathetically behind this way. 5-8 targets at a time is still fine. Also for anyone complaining, its not going to be "okay you 8 are the only ones to take damage, the rest of you are fine," but the mobs will each be potentially targetted each time. So if its a spell that does 6 ticks of damage, 5 targets max against 10 mobs, everyone will be hit at least once with most being hit 3 times, so your slow effects and debuffs will still apply.

M+ is embarrassingly stupid right now. This is a change people do want. If you happen to be doing legacy content, there are still AOE moves you can use. Dk's diseases and epidemic, Warriors Colossus/warbreaker, thunder clap, paladins consecration, maybe even wake of ashes, druid warlock priest multidotting, etc.

AOE being a one button affair is not a good thing. I'm glad its ending, you will be too once you try it.