USA falling apart?

[Gothicshark]

Really? I dont think its illegal. States have the right to leave the US. Why wouldnt they? If Texas believes that its better for them to leave then they should. I as a resident of Virginia dont care, and wouldnt care if Virginia decided to leave.



What grounds the the US military have to attack Texas if it secedes?

The reason states wont secede has nothing to do with the US military, it has to do with not only a lot of laws that are going to have to change, as well as politicians at the top spots are not going to allow their own state to leave.

In a country that was founded on becoming independent it would be hypocritical to not let states secede.

Here is what would happen say the Governor and the State Legislature approved a session from the Union, they would order the State Militia to protect them. That would consist of State Cops, Texas National Guard, and a handful of other semi-military state units (a list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Military_Forces ) All together they would have about 5-10k troops, they would have to order and rally them to service in the new independent Texas, big problem half of these troops will be under direct control of the US military, the other half is already deployed as peace keeping in Texas and on the states boarder. so they would need about 2-3 weeks to mobilize, also they would need new volunteers to boost their numbers, this could take as much as 6 - 20 weeks to establish and than an addition year of training for the new recruits. Mean while with in 6 hours after they signed the document separating themselves from the US they are all arrested by Federal cops and US military. They will then spend the next year in Jail as they face trail for treason, which still has a possible Death Sentence. Granted only the Governor and the leaders of the state house would face death the rest would get life in prison.

[Badpaladin]

I bet it's quite a bit of fun for those in office reading some of the petitions.

[belfpala]

I bet it's quite a bit of fun for those in office reading some of the petitions.

Some guy just rang my doorbell, and I signed a thing to try get rid of Citizen's United...

First time I've signed a petition in my life.

[Rosse88]

Personally, I would say that the United States isn't necessarily falling apart. However, there are a lot of issues that people seem to be blissfully ignorant of or perhaps ignoring. I would be more concerned about the services provided in some of the other states and watch their domestic numbers in the petition. Also, this "we beat the red states" or "we hate the blue states" junk is ridiculous and part of the problem itself.

The policies that many people elected obama on will hurt. Thats a fact many many economists agree upon. And many employment stalls are now placed again. I mean honestly, how many people here are actually intimately familiar with the tax code relating a medium sized company (arguably the only ones that matter in the larger scope). What I see in that secession list are states attempting to recover and angry.

In Michigan, many of the hospitals are placing holds as of this week. Companies are also placing the majority of workers on part time. That may not seem like much, but think about it. The tax revenue that is lost to the state. Additionally, less incentive for new businesses and additional missed revenue. But more then that, I suspect a cascade issue once people realize where the 401k and insurance values are invested. It won't be pretty.

What I saw happen in this election was people voting on topics they don't understand. Hell, even Cornell has posted research stating this a growing problem. I think the issue we need to tackle is educating people on economics. I see many people talk about it, but how many have actually studied it?

--------- EDIT ------------

I should add that Im talking from a purely economical standpoint. Economics leads to food on the table. Ideals on social attributes are nice, but don't mean a damn if you're broke.

[belfpala]

The policies that many people elected obama on will hurt. Thats a fact many many economists agree upon. And many employment stalls are now placed again. I mean honestly, how many people here are actually intimately familiar with the tax code relating a medium sized company (arguably the only ones that matter in the larger scope). What I see in that secession list are states attempting to recover and angry.

Which policies, and which economists? I'm not a full-on Obama-Kool-aid person, but I'm just curious.

I don't know what you define as a medium size company. I'd call mine small, but I employ 30 people...

[smelltheglove]

I bet it's quite a bit of fun for those in office reading some of the petitions.

i dont know, can repetitive stress injuries be caused by excessive facepalming? all good, obamacare covers it, lol

[Klingers]

Thoughts? Secession is illegal, and failed in 1860. This is crap brought to you by malcontent whiners and nothing more.

I'm pretty sure secession from the crown was illegal in 1775 too... Just saying.

[Gothicshark]

Clinton and Obama are both classical Republicans, carrying the same beliefs that Republicans had in the successful parts of the 20th century. Shooting down big corporations and promoting small business. Their fiscal stances are actually pretty conservative but they promote small business (which creates jobs) and bust down big corporations (which decimate jobs and destroy local economies). Meanwhile the modern Republicans of the 21st century seem to be pandering to big business and big corporations, which you can be sure is the last thing this country needs. That's not even fiscally irresponsible, that's fiscally retarded. Someone needs to bust up Exxon Mobil, like Standard Oil was busted up by Taft (a classical republican).

I guess that is sort of my Point as the Republicans move further to the extreme right, the Democrats have been moving further right. At this point in time I would have to say if you where a middle conservative during the Reagan years you would definitely be a moderate liberal today. I just want to point out that Reagan was pro-union 90% of the time, only the Air-traffic controllers union upset Reagan. It was Bush Senor who drove the Republicans into the arms of big business and mufti-nationalism.

My favorite presidents list:

1. Reagan - Ended the cold war
2. Clinton - Largest good economy in US history
3. Nixon - Ended Vietnam

My least favorite president list

1. Bush 2.0 - ruined the economy, started a bad war with Iraq and didn't even think to plant WMD. (God, any child of the cold war knows you plant the evidence after the invasion. He was truly the dumbest man to ever become president.)
2. Bush 1.0 - he is the personification of the most evil man in US history, ever wonder why Muslims hate Israel and the US, look at Bush's record as director of the CIA. There is a reason Ross Perot ran for president, and it had nothing to do with becoming president.
3. Carter - even though he might have been the highest IQ to be president he was an absolute moron as president. He was a good man who should have never gotten elected.

[Rosse88]

When I talk mid-sized, I would place them between 40 and 200. It may seem like a wide margin, but with those numbers you can suspect distribution on a local scale. In my case, I sit in the 120 range. Im not massive by any stretch but I do work with other companies on a national scale.

I also say 40 to 200 as I don't know the scheduling in use or the region/country. Like with 30 people, running triple shifts isn't actually that large. You also don't know if its labor based or tech based. Im 120 (stated) but in tech. While only 25 about are programming, the others are warehouse and distribution (I don't claim the 25 as engineers as the warehouse also has engineers embedded). But I cannot claim the clout of 400 or more size and therefore still require partnerships to accomplish many projects.

Economists reviewed several of the energy, social, and medical policies including the bi-partisan review stated that as directed, fiscal stability isn't possible. The credit rating cut was also on the basis of long term sustainability. No one is picking on the correctness of them. Merely the numbers.

[Grizzly Willy]

Factor in how much obama has spent on the people who voted for him, the numbers arent even close. Been buying votes with ebt cards and obama phones for the last 4 years.

They cannot take away your ebt now since you no longer have to look for a job to receive the benefits (obama dropped the work requirement). All you gotta do is have 1 baby a year and vote democrat, the nation is finished.

See, you continue to cling to lies and rhetoric. The cell phone claim has been proven bunk repeatedly:


(link in the picture)

[Tyranda]

lol you probly believe everything obama says too

[Jtbrig7390]

lol you probly believe everything obama says too

And you blind hate him and cling to lies that have been debunked many times even a few times in this thread.

[Gothicshark]

lol you probly believe everything obama says too

I don't believe anything anyone says, I removed all television service from my life in 2002 just after the Iraq invasion. I get 100% of my news from direct sources. I live-stream and download 100% of my television entertainment. And I play MMOs. I am now able to think for myself and come to my own conclusions. Which means I look left from the point of view of the extreme right, which is what the Republicans have become. You want to do your self a favor turn off your cable TV a $30-$100 a month savings, Download and live stream all your entertainment needs, get your news from direct sources. It might take a year but your mind will clear and you will see things in a new light.

[Grizzly Willy]

I would rather trust third party research on claims than those who made them when it comes to politics.

[Reeve]

Clinton and Obama are both classical Republicans, carrying the same beliefs that Republicans had in the successful parts of the 20th century. Shooting down big corporations and promoting small business. Their fiscal stances are actually pretty conservative but they promote small business (which creates jobs) and bust down big corporations (which decimate jobs and destroy local economies). Meanwhile the modern Republicans of the 21st century seem to be pandering to big business and big corporations, which you can be sure is the last thing this country needs. That's not even fiscally irresponsible, that's fiscally retarded. Someone needs to bust up Exxon Mobil, like Standard Oil was busted up by Taft (a classical republican).

ExxonMobil is not a monopoly like Standard Oil was. It has quite a lot of competition, in fact, from large, medium sized, and small companies.

[Gothicshark]

ExxonMobil is not a monopoly like Standard Oil was. It has quite a lot of competition, in fact, from large, medium sized, and small companies.

Actually it is bigger than Standard ever was.

Also on a side note when Standard was split it became:

Standard Oil of New Jersey, Renamed Exxon.
Standard Oil of New York, Renamed Mobil.
Standard Oil of California, renamed Chevron, also Texaco is owned buy Chevron.
Standard Oil of Indiana, bought buy BP, aka Arco.

I think this covers all major American Distribution of petroleum. Also and this is important all these companies are tied to companies in other countries.

[Dakia]

Actually it is bigger than Standard ever was.

Also on a side note when Standard was split it became:

Standard Oil of New Jersey, Renamed Exxon.
Standard Oil of New York, Renamed Mobil.
Standard Oil of California, renamed Chevron, also Texaco is owned buy Chevron.
Standard Oil of Indiana, bought buy BP, aka Arco.

I think this covers all major American Distribution of petroleum. Also and this is important all these companies are tied to companies in other countries.

What is the market share differential?

[Reeve]

Actually it is bigger than Standard ever was.

Also on a side note when Standard was split it became:

Standard Oil of New Jersey, Renamed Exxon.
Standard Oil of New York, Renamed Mobil.
Standard Oil of California, renamed Chevron, also Texaco is owned buy Chevron.
Standard Oil of Indiana, bought buy BP, aka Arco.

I think this covers all major American Distribution of petroleum. Also and this is important all these companies are tied to companies in other countries.

Yes, I'm actually pretty familiar with that history, having read Daniel Yergin's book, and working in the industry. They didn't break up Standard because it was big, though. They broke it up because it was a monopoly. ExxonMobil is not a monopoly.

[Gothicshark]

What is the market share differential?

Look at the size and profit margins, Market share is tricky since they can own the oil when it comes to the US but as long as they are not the final retailer they don't count as a Monopoly.

Revenue US$ 486.429 billion (2011)
Operating income US$ 73.257 billion (2011)
Net income US$ 41.060 billion (2011)
Total assets US$ 349.000 billion (2011)
Total equity US$ 154.396 billion (2011)
Employees 82,100 (2011)

Subsidiaries
Aera Energy, Esso, Esso Australia, Exxon, Exxon Neftegas, Imperial Oil (69,6%), Mobil, Mobil Producing Nigeria, SeaRiver Maritime, Superior Oil Company, Vacuum Oil Company, XTO Energy

It is the most profitable company in the world. With Shell being #2 and Walmart as #3.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

157,000/314,762,562 people in the United States want a secession.

SHIT JUST GOT REAL!