No flying 5.2

[Granyala]

Every time this topic comes up I wait for someone to give a cogent argument explaining how flying mounts are "ruining the game". I'm still waiting.

Join the club! *hand out Brochure*

I'm waiting for VALID PvE concerns as well. (Me no like, me no immersion != valid)

[Kryos]

just delete flying mounts off pvp servers and get it over with

Exactly. I hate PVP, I play on a PVE server. I couldn't give less about the ganking on PVP servers. If flying mounts are a pvp problem - remove them from pvp servers and make all existing flying mounts ground mounts.

[Mad_Murdock]

To call this a PvE nerf cause of PvPers is stupid.

They did not do this cause of WPVP, cause that would cause a million people qqing on the forums about how PvP servers suddenly have changed and they get killed by players suddenly, which would tax their support systems.

(Pure speculation, but it makes sense.)

How can you say it's stupid and yet say it's pure speculation ? Blizz talked at Blizzcon about no flying to 90, and part of that reason was to make the world more dangerous, Particularly on PVP servers.

If you're Designing a map from scratch, shouldn't be that much work to create it as a fly zone versus no fly zone. We aren't retrofitting silvermoon. You won't find very many PvE players calling for the removal of Flying mounts. You'll hear plenty PvP players claim that Flying mounts "ruined WPVP". Pretty sure if you dig around you'll find Blue post stating they are looking for ways to create more WPVP situations and there has been complaining on the forums by the PvE crowd that they feel like they are slowly getting forced into PVP.

Except now, you get rewarded with flying far too early, at level 60. 1-59 really doesn't take long. So now, instead of being a reward, it's an expected part of the game. Except in this form, flying doesn't work, because it removes a lot of the struggle, a lot of the challenge which makes RPGs and games in general so compelling and interesting.

It's not a struggle except for those without heirlooms. For everyone else, it's a means to speed up the leveling process to get it over with, so they can get to the real content. 1-60 isn't a struggle either and I'd be fine with flying at level 1. I don't read quest text, I just grab all the quest and go. Don't know and don't care why I'm killing X, Y and Z. I guess you think we should have a check box on each quest to show that we read it ?

Flying doesn't hurt anyone except for those that either want to gank someone and can't or feel lonely because no one is down on the ground with them, adding the illusion there is people in our imaginary world. A good chunk of people don't appear to be interested in all that

[Kisho]

Every time this topic comes up I wait for someone to give a cogent argument explaining how flying mounts are "ruining the game". I'm still waiting.

Then either:

1. You haven't read the many arguments that have been made in these threads, or
2. You're ignoring anything that disagrees with your opinion.

The arguments have been made, several times. I've made a couple in this thread and others.

[Deleted]

meh fuck WPVP no1 really does that anymore, just atack a lvl 67 with 20 lvl 90s way to go...dailies will take longer / finding rare pets will take longer...but well

[Deleted]

Then either:

1. You haven't read the many arguments that have been made in these threads, or
2. You're ignoring anything that disagrees with your opinion.

The arguments have been made, several times. I've made a couple in this thread and others.

If they remove flying mounts I can guarantee that those wanting them removed now will be the first to kick up a shitstorm of QQ.

[The Small Hours]

I'm of the opinion that Blizz should set up 'no flying' realms and offer all the people that dont wanna fly free migration to said realms. I have a life outside WoW, don't have time to spend all day playing like most of you. If flying was removed it would only mean I get to do the things I want to do less and ultimately that would destroy my interest in the game.

[uopayroll]

The new island is gated. Flying would bypass much of that. Same logic as to why you have to wait till 90 to fly in Pandaria. Who knows, maybe whenthe last phase unlocks, we can fly there, maybe not...

[Granyala]

Journeying through the world, struggling against enemies, getting stronger as a result. One of the rewards for your struggles is the power gain itself, and the relative strength you now have against those foes you struggled against previously. It's rewarding to be able to go back and destroy the enemies who gave you a hard time previously. On a similar note, flying works into this by being the reward for struggling through on foot at first.

We DID "struggle" to 90.

Well.. no. Actually we didn't. There is N O T H I N G dangerous in WoW outside of Instances and PvP. That leaves ummm... NOTHING™ on a PvE Server.
Questmobs cannot kill you. It's just not possible as long as you have 2 functioning brain cells dedicated to WoW.
Thus, your entire argumentative structure is void.

Except now, you get rewarded with flying far too early, at level 60. 1-59 really doesn't take long.

They give you flight in Outland & Northrend for ONE reason and for ONE reason alone: To let you catch up faster. 85 levels of mostly empty, out dated zones are pretty intimidating to a newbie.

When TBC was recent: We didn't have flying until 68 (or was it 70? 68 was druid only me thinks).
When WotLK was recent: We didn't have flying until 78 (Storm peaks and Icecrown were designed with flying in mind, which was awesome)
When Cata was recent: We did have flying, but that was necessary, because they didn't really give us a cohesive new continent to explore.
When MoP was recent: We didn't have flying until 90.

So, what you are calling "good game design" is what Blizzard already does. And I agree to that. I like flying to be a reward for hitting maximum level. It feels cool.

[Lord Pebbleton]

So you deserve getting ganked just because you made a Char 7-8 Years ago on a full Balanced Server that is getting empty on one Side now.

yeah makes perfect sense


If they remove flying in the Zones i want my Gold back i spend for flying


Oh and please stop forcing your shit on others.. Majority in WoW loves flying

I don't know if the last sentence was referring to me. If so, i'm pro flying mounts.
And yes. I made an Alliance character 6 years ago on a balanced PvP server and i had to migrate when it became full horde because Blizzard wouldn't merge realms.
If you make the choice of staying on such a terrible server, you accept to be ganked endlessly by the overwhelming number of the enemy.

[darkpower]

Then either:

1. You haven't read the many arguments that have been made in these threads, or
2. You're ignoring anything that disagrees with your opinion.

The arguments have been made, several times. I've made a couple in this thread and others.

The arguments made are based on whatever they think Blizz's stance is on them. They are all going on about everything PvP, and every single argument that IS being made can be easily defeated by saying that this is just PvPers thinking that PVE servers should never exist and they rule what happens in the game.

You can't make one valid PvE argument as to why these mounts shouldn't exist! Not one! Sure, you could make a PvP argument, but it would be trivial at best (you want Blizz to stop nerfing raids, yet you want to constantly gank lowbies without penalty). So what IS the PvE reason for removing them?

C'mon, we're STILL fucking waiting for it!

[Deleted]

Oooo. Fantastic.

(also keeps supporting my theory that Blizzard regret adding flying mounts :P)

idd. Isle of Quel'Danas was sooo fun, back in the days.

[Wildtree]

Join the club! *hand out Brochure*

I'm waiting for VALID PvE concerns as well. (Me no like, me no immersion != valid)

Flying, and mounts in general make the game experience, and the progress more convenient.
It is possible however that this convenience backfires with new players. Kisho made good points.
If you compare with Wow how it once was, and how it is now... Today we can avoid many many encounters. Now, one can say, quality comes from practice. Which could be a factor in gaining pve skills. Apparently there's a relation, if we look at the issues there were with CC.
Where almost everyone who started playing during Vanilla/TBC had zero problem with proper CC usage, the following generations couldn't master it. It turned into a giant failure early on in Cata. Blizzard thought to bring it back. People never had to practice it. And the results were horrible.
It wasn't the peoples fault. They were called noobs and what not, for something they never had to do before.
And the same could be true now for the being grounded all the time. No evasion anymore. Teaches how to avoid aggro if it isn't wanted. Gives practice with keybinds, rotations and what not. Could very well lead to an overall better skill on a broad range of players.

I still don't advocate a mount removal at all.. That's outright silly. Just saying where differences and impacts could be.

[Pendragon]

It is funny how if someone else wants something or wants something changed it's QQ\Crying\Complainig. But when people on PvP servers want world PvP, it's never crying

What's even funnier is the fact that people(carebears) roll on PVP servers and then cry about an aspect of PVP that is totally legit and should be expected on a PVP server.

[Drithien]

GC said this during Twitter which pretty much represents only his opinion, it is very possible that the majority of the dev's disagree.

I disagree. Mists was designed clearly as a first step to taking things on the ground once more.

You can't fly until you get to level 90, and depending on your performance that may take several zones to do so. What is more a lot of variety as to where to quest is offered. That means that almost all the zones in Pandaria have been designed so a player can play in them without being able to fly.

That takes a lot of work. Work that an entire developing team won't commit to, to satisfy just one person's opinion. Especially Ghostcrawler's who is not the one responsible for questing and world design, his priorities are things like the UI. This is an opinion shared by most of the developing team. It's the only way it would ever make it into the game. Ghostcrawler was just the one that transfered that message to the community.

And anyway, flying won't go away most probably, which is not even this thread's focus. At most, it will partially be available in new content. New content as in next expansion. For instance, some zones will allow it and some won't. So both flying and ground mounts will be of use. Why is it that people almost always refer to the excesses of a concept, when most of what actually happens is somehwere in the middle? Is being a drama queen so enticing? (not directed that the person I quoted but a general observation looking at this and similar threads about almost everything)

[GeordieMagpie]

That's awesome. Now if only they'd remove flying from the rest of the game.

disclaimer: I don't care at all about wpvp. I want the removal of flying mounts for pve reasons.

I would agree with this, only if there was a magical bridge to tempest keep/to Kazakk, but that's BC so---yeah, anyways you get the point

[borinaria]

So it would be pretty pointless to buy the new flying mounts.

[Zdrasti]

What's even funnier is the fact that people(carebears) roll on PVP servers and then cry about an aspect of PVP that is totally legit and should be expected on a PVP server.

Such people also play EVE Online, which is renowned for its brutal PvP atmosphere and still cry endlessly when they lose ships. Difference is, the community universally laughs at them.

[Pull My Finger]

Flying, and mounts in general make the game experience, and the progress more convenient.
It is possible however that this convenience backfires with new players. Kisho made good points.
If you compare with Wow how it once was, and how it is now... Today we can avoid many many encounters. Now, one can say, quality comes from practice. Which could be a factor in gaining pve skills. Apparently there's a relation, if we look at the issues there were with CC.
Where almost everyone who started playing during Vanilla/TBC had zero problem with proper CC usage, the following generations couldn't master it. It turned into a giant failure early on in Cata. Blizzard thought to bring it back. People never had to practice it. And the results were horrible.
It wasn't the peoples fault. They were called noobs and what not, for something they never had to do before.
And the same could be true now for the being grounded all the time. No evasion anymore. Teaches how to avoid aggro if it isn't wanted. Gives practice with keybinds, rotations and what not. Could very well lead to an overall better skill on a broad range of players.

I still don't advocate a mount removal at all.. That's outright silly. Just saying where differences and impacts could be.

This argument sounds as if flying helped people avoid playing the game. Riding your mount doesn't give you XP.

[Granyala]

Where almost everyone who started playing during Vanilla/TBC had zero problem with proper CC usage, the following generations couldn't master it

BWAHAHAHAHA
....
OMG... that's so hilarious... do you know how often I have wiped in BC, because the fucking random couldn't handle his CC spells properly or because morons went "Yo AoE dawg" when there was a CC around?

BTW the reason why peeps after TBC had less an affinity for CC has NOTHING to do with flying mounts. It's that WotLKs instances were an AoE snoozefest that let them unlearn everything. Seriously, we didn't even use any form of CC in Naxxramas 80. I know I was excited about mind sear back then. Boy I HATED that spell after Naxx, because it was pretty much the only spell I used during the hours of trash in that raid.

And the same could be true now for the being grounded all the time. No evasion anymore. Teaches how to avoid aggro if it isn't wanted. Gives practice with keybinds, rotations and what not. Could very well lead to an overall better skill on a broad range of players.

Seriously.. I can't believe you just wrote that. We are talking about OUTDOOR QUESTING MOBS here... they fall over when your character lets out a cough. Ooh I added.. wayne, I just kill both of you.. or 5... doesn't matter.

Please, for the love of God, don't make such statements. People who didn't experience WoW back then might believe you.