Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[Stelio Kontos]

lemonparty can't support his arguments. He's a sniveler.

He'll continue to make passive-aggressive remarks like the beta male he is.

For some folks, anyone not on their side is a misogynist or a misandrist depending on their views.

Infracted: Please refrain from personal attacks

[Spectral]

So we're gonna view people acting in violent fashion (such as bombing clinics and shooting doctors) the same as people who simply spew vitriol? Is that what we're gonna do today?

If you took away the crazy people who deserve to be arrested (or hell, even if you include them) who do you think has more support? Pro-lifers or pro-choicers? You don't even need to look that statistic up because you already know it.

The split's not near as big as I'd like for a putatively sane nation: http://features.pewforum.org/abortion-slideshow/

[Laize]

The split's not near as big as I'd like for a putatively sane nation: http://features.pewforum.org/abortion-slideshow/

Looks to be 54:39 with 8% taking no position.

That's not close at all.

[Wells]

So we're gonna view people acting in violent fashion (such as bombing clinics and shooting doctors) the same as people who simply spew vitriol? Is that what we're gonna do today?

If you took away the crazy people who deserve to be arrested (or hell, even if you include them) who do you think has more support? Pro-lifers or pro-choicers? You don't even need to look that statistic up because you already know it.

You don't get to pick and choose which societal opinions count for the purposes of your claims.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 03:16 AM ----------

Not to mention I have zero problem if we accept that its true that society is harder on men who don't pay for their children than women who abort a fetus. Seems as it should to me.

[Laize]

You don't get to pick and choose which societal opinions count for the purposes of your claims.

And I did say you were free to keep the crazy people in and still be wrong in your assertion. As far as I'm aware, statistics don't even exist for public approval of options for men.

I refuse to follow this silly red herring any longer, however.

[Stir]

And a woman only does because to deny her that choice comes with too high of a cost. A man does not lose his bodily autonomy by not having that say.

Again you're missing that your decisions are still relevant to the outcome. Sure she chose to carry to term, but you still made decisions that got you both in that position. You're not being forced to finance her decision. You're being forced to finance your share of a child that is the outcome of decisions by bother parties.

See, and that's just not true.
If the male wore a condom, he decided not to have a baby.
If that condom broke, he still decided not to have that baby.

Now; the female can do two things if she gets pregnant: Decide to have the baby, or decide not to have the baby. Whatever she chooses, the male has nothing to say about that choice. He can decide to become the child's parent if the woman wants to carry it to terms, or he can decide not to become the child's parent if the woman wants to keep the child. Whether or not the child will be born is not the man's decision, and as such, he has no responsibility for that decision.

I would argue that, in the case of him refusing to become a parent and the woman wishing an abortion, he'd have to pay half of the costs of an abortion. But if he wants to be a parent and the woman wants an abortion anyway, he shouldn't have to pay anything.

To sum it up: The child is no longer the outcome of a decision both parties made (to have sex). Instead, the child has become the outcome of a decision only one person made (to have an abortion/morning after pill or not).

[Laize]

Not to mention I have zero problem if we accept that its true that society is harder on men who don't pay for their children than women who abort a fetus. Seems as it should to me.

You don't get to praise women for their progressive views when they shirk parenthood and deride men for doing the same. Once conception has occurred, men have no choice in whether or not they become a father.

It's a complete loss of financial and legal autonomy and wholly unconscionable.

[Wells]

If the male wore a condom, he decided not to have a baby.
If that condom broke, he still decided not to have that baby.

That just means he didn't want one and took counter measures. That doesn't mean that sex suddenly can't result in children.

You don't get to praise women for their progressive views when they shirk parenthood and deride men for doing the same. Once conception has occurred, men have no choice in whether or not they become a father.

Your confusion might result from thinking that a woman who aborts a fetus is doing the same thing that a man is when he refuses to pay for his children.

[Stir]

That just means he didn't want one and took counter measures. That doesn't mean that sex suddenly can't result in children.

It means that sex can't result in children unless the woman wants it to result in children. Well, that AND the precautions failed. But both need to be happening.
*Edit: I am, of course, talking from the perspective of someone who believes things like the morning-after pill and abortion should be available to those who have want/need of them*

[Rukentuts]

It means that sex can't result in children unless the woman wants it to result in children.

Who chose to ejaculate inside her? Just curious.

[Deleted]

Who chose to ejaculate inside her? Just curious.

Even if he ejaculates in her, it's still up to her, and only her if that results in a child.

[Uselessrouge]

I think everyone is missing the bigger story. Almost half of the world's population women are GOOD people. You have a near 50/50 chance of meeting one of the good ones with every new woman you encounter.

oh 50/50?

sound no good too me sorry :>

i would prefere playing russian rulette its safer xD

[Rukentuts]

Even if he ejaculates in her, it's still up to her, and only her if that results in a child.

Which is just another choice down the chain of choices.

[Stir]

Who chose to ejaculate inside her? Just curious.

In my little story, he chose to ejaculate in a rubber balloon that was specifically crafted for that person.
And Reqq also made a very valid point: Even if he didn't, only SHE can decide whether or not it will be allowed to grow.

[starlord]

In my little story, he chose to ejaculate in a rubber balloon that was specifically crafted for that person.
And Reqq also made a very valid point: Even if he didn't, only SHE can decide whether or not it will be allowed to grow.

so? he can decide that it exists in the first place. he knew rubber balloons arent 100% proof.

[Spectral]

Looks to be 54:39 with 8% taking no position.

That's not close at all.

I find it uncomfortably close.

It's unsurprising that it pretty closely fits the number of Americans that believe in young Earth creationism. I'm going to go ahead and wager there's more than a bit of overlap there.

[Canpinter]

If i get into a car accident because the dealer lied and said the car had breaks, but i also didn't wear my seat belt who should pay for my medical bills?

[starlord]

If i get into a car accident because the dealer lied and said the car had breaks, but i also didn't wear my seat belt who should pay for my medical bills?

that depends on if you had right of way

[serravenger]

If i get into a car accident because the dealer lied and said the car had breaks, but i also didn't wear my seat belt who should pay for my medical bills?

The Dealers fault as not wearing the seat belt didn't cause the accident, the car not having brakes did, or your bad driving or the bad driving of the other vehicle that was involved, or the dog that ran out in front of you, of the child on the bike.

What i am trying to say is its not that cut and dry.

[Canpinter]

The Dealers fault as not wearing the seat belt didn't cause the accident, the car not having brakes did, or your bad driving or the bad driving of the other vehicle that was involved, or the dog that ran out in front of you, of the child on the bike.

What i am trying to say is its not that cut and dry.

yes but my decision to risk driving, and not wearing a seat belt was based on a false premise so to me all responsibly falls back onto the dealer. yes there where additional measures i could have taken but that dose not put me at fault for trusting the dealer. car breaks(contraception) do fail but that is very different then the breaks never having been there in the first place, and dose not make it my fault for not automatically installing a 2nd set of breaks(condom) when i am told one is already in place.