Jin'rokh, Horridon, Megaera, Durumu, Primordius are fights where ret can compete with most classes on as long as your raidleader lets you play our strengths, which they should.
Iron Qon is a shit fight for melee in general if they haven't fixed the hitbox issues from PTR, havent personally done Twin Consorts/Lei Shen yet, but Lei Shen looks like a strong fight for us aswell where we can compete with most classes on.
"Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
Juseeh
T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28
No compared to other dps specs, where is ret good? I know where ret is able to play to it's strenghts but that doesn't mean we'll beat other dpsers. Also so far we've only seen normal mode, things change drasticly on heroic. Been on PTR? Heroic mechanics fuck melee over hard and the fights that favour cleave, multidot and aoe fucks ret in particular. Like saying ret is going to be competative on Horridon HC if we're 100% on the boss and just abuse the damage increase he takes, at that point you're dragging your raid down which is my point. Any job a ret can do this tier some other dps spec can do better. Sad but true.
Last edited by Juicy; 2013-03-09 at 05:08 PM.
"Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
Juseeh
T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28
Any melle you bring to Horridon you're most likely going to assign to interrupt or stun target which means dks will be insanely strong, Horridon dps comes from multidotters and ranged switching when the 3 special mobs are dead/taken care of. There's also stronger singletarget dpsers than ret you can stick on Horridon.
Because killing Horridon is not and will not be an issue, ever. He takes progressively more and more damage as the fight goes on and he takes 200% more damage for a while. Horridon is not a problem at all. The adds are much more important and that's why you will need to be on them, period, the end.
Regarding Ret DPS compared to others, if you're not getting beaten by almost every other class in almost every situation, the people playing them suck. That's all there is to it. The only classes that shouldn't beat you consistently are Monks and Shamans - that's it.
"Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
Juseeh
T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28
Uberauras - Dynamic Weakauras for all Classes and Specs
**UPDATE IN PROGRESS**
https://wago.io/5F4Ucz3RN
Anyone with primordius trinket here? I can't stack it more than 3 it always fall off before another stack.
Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. I see that the trinket list here is different, and a few people disagree with the trinkets we recommend. I'm stalking MMO-C forums to find people who disagree and do some theorycrafting. Trinkets are tough, but we simulate all of them to get the average uptime (here's a list of those simulated values). This takes the RealPPM into account, as well as a person's Haste. Here's some in-depth details about how we handle trinkets. Also, we're using the latest proc information from Ghostcrawler.
That being said, I'd like to make sure everything is working right on our trinkets, just in case one of them needs adjusting. For this exercise I'm using the stat weights of: STR (3.52), Haste (1.93), Exp (2.5), Crit (1.46)
- Brutal Talisman (522): 1467 EXP and 1764 avg STR from proc = (1467 * 2.5) + (1764 * 3.52) = 3668 + 6209 = 9877
- Darkmist Vortex (509): 1300 STR and 1580 avg Haste from proc = (1300 * 3.52) + (1580 * 1.93) = 4576 + 3047 = 7623
- Spark of Zandalar (522): 1467 Haste and 697 STR from proc = (1467 * 1.93) + (697 * 3.52) = 2831 + 2454 = 5285
- Primordius Talisman (522): 1467 Crit and 957 STR from proc = (1467 * 1.46) + (957 * 3.52) = 2142 + 3369 = 5511
As you can see from that math, the Brutal Talisman destroys the other trinkets. Now, let's do a reality check with napkin math regarding these trinket procs:
- Brutal Talisman: 15% chance for 15 sec w/ 75 sec ICD. That is a 20% uptime. So 20% * 8800 STR = 1760 STR
- Darkmist Vortex: 15% chance for 20 sec w/105 ICD. That's a 19% uptime. So 19% * 7796 = 1481 Haste
- Spark of Zandalar: Get 10 stacks once every 2 minutes (5RPPM). 20 sec duration over 120 seconds = 16% uptime. 16% * 8279 = 1325 STR
- Primordius Talisman: 3 RPPM. So it's up for 10 sec out of every 20 sec for a 50% uptime. 50% * 1538 = 769 STR
Now, Haste affects the RPPM, so let's apply about a 30% buff from extra procs to the two RPPM trinkets. NOTE!! Mr. Robot factors in your actual Haste when ranking the trinkets for your character. Anyway, the new numbers would look like this:
- Brutal Talisman: 1760 STR
- Darkmist Vortex: 1481 Haste
- Spark of Zandalar: 1325 STR + 30% = 1722 STR
- Primordius Talisman: 769 STR + 30% = 1000 STR
So my question to all of you: am I missing something? (It's possible, we have data coming out our ears for our 5.2 updates). Or do you prefer the other trinkets for a different reason, since a lot of trinkets just come down to personal preference for people. Or does the math work out and make sense and Mr. Robot's original rankings are right?
Edit: added to answer megraam: it will be very rare to stack it past 3. Even stacking to 3 is probably not that common. It should proc 3 times per minute, on average and last for 10 seconds, so you need procs to happen pretty quickly to even get to a stack of 3.
Ask Mr. Robot Human Minion
As far as I know, for the talisman, the expertise aren't extra stats, you're going to be expertise capped anyway, therefore you need to calculate its value using our highest non-cappable stat, and even then it's a bit iffy, because that 1467 expertise might not fully become haste from reforging, parts may become crit or mastery. That's why you're overvaluing it.
Someone from the Mr. Robot team, cool. After reading your post I have a side remark regarding your stat weights:
Personally I think (in most circumstances) Exp (and hit) should, at best, be of equal value to our strongest non-capable secondary stat.
I know that we have some more experienced rets here, so I ask if you would agree with my logic?
Pinkcrusader, what would your reasoning be for setting them equal to your strongest non-cappable secondary stat? What are you trying to achieve with that? (note, that has NO snooty undertone, I'm really just curious to the reasoning... but you know how tone of voice gets lost on the internetz)
Ask Mr. Robot Human Minion
Keep telling yourself that and we'll talk again in about a month or two and you tell us how your guild killed Horridon and how we killed Horridon (if rets are taken) and then we might see. Keep in mind that I talk about how bleeding edge guilds will progress this, which means like top 20-30 or so world. Not top ~100 like the guild I'm in.
That would be because of reforging away of the expertise into our best 2ndary stat (haste) on other pieces of our gear.
We get a 1467Exp trink ? : reforge it and then we reforge other pieces of gear with expertise to gain 1467 of haste or a mix of haste/mastery depending of personnal gear.
I'm at 31.5% haste unbuffed atm,
---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 11:10 PM ----------
@ Zoopercat
Don't know if you took Spark of Zandalars lack of an ICD into consideration. If you go by 10stacks at 120 seconds then "20" stacks will happen at 240 seconds, stacks build up again as soon as the first 10 is reached.
"Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
Juseeh
T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28