Blizzard should swallow their pride to save WoW

[Deleted]

Yeah those level 90 city and town guards are crazy strong.

[Marema]

Players should swallow their pride and admit WoW doesn't need saving. If you want to save something, go save WoW's 'competition.'

[Belisaurio]

The best thing that blizzard can do is develop all the new content with inmersion in their minds.
Or If they want to continue that road, skip the world. Put only a button to queue "something" (like MOBAS), to do raids/pvp/dungeons/some shit/etc... Nobody will know the diference from now.

And Skip lvls, put a button to start at lvl 90 (like fly mounts threats, if you want to level up, YOU CAN; but if you want to play the end game faster, you CAN too!!!).

And I'm a casual player, and I want that changes.
If I return home from my job at 22.00 (IRL), and I can not raid, then, I don't raid!!!!! I'm not raiding (seriously) since Firelands 'cause my job and NO problem :S And If I can't finish one dungeon (like BRD), then, NO problem, I can try another day!!!

P.D:Sorry for my english. try to understand what I'm telling.

[Breccia]

they can teleport everywhere like lemmings

Lemmings can do that?

All kidding aside, we are talking about a game that's shortly going to outlive two entire console generations, and in that time, changes in the market were inevitable. Games in 2005, the release year of World of Warcraft, included such gems as God of War and Resident Evil 4. Big games last year included Assassin's Creed 3, Dishonored and Far Cry 3, mixed in of course with the inevitable cash cows of Madden, Pokemon and Halo. Times change, tastes change. They're supposed to.

Hardcore games can and do exist. Demon's Souls and the Witcher are classic examples. But narrowing your market is not always a good design philosophy. By definition, the majority of people cannot want a game that's tougher than average. That's kind of what average means. Check the games I just mentioned. They didn't sell very well. Demon's Souls sold under 2M copies worldwide. The Witcher 1+2 combined, the same. A lot of games have, instead, decided to use a selectable difficulty to widen the appeal. WoW can only do this so far, because an LFR version of a dirt road that's shorter than normal doesn't really seem to fit. But they can, and do, allow for scaling difficulty with such things as LFR/N/H modes in raids, and rated vs. unrated battlegrounds. They're not perfect, of course, but it seems to be keeping them employed.

Incidentally Halo 4 seems to have sold about 8.15 million copies, making it the #3 biggest selling game of 2012, so if you think about it, World of Warcraft is having a bad quarter and is still outselling most games in the market. I'm not saying no changes should be made, in fact, that would defeat my original "games evolve" thing. I am saying, there's no reason for anyone to panic and revert to Vanilla standards, which never got above 8 million subs until they introduced BC and flying mounts.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

The key should be to cater to casuals while providing content for hardcore.

In short, make scenarios, dailies, and lfr optional. And bring back post-launch heroic dungeons.

[Deleted]

What Blizz should do is take a good long look at all the bugs and annoyances in the game. Things such as tab targetting, auto-targetting, getting stuck in combat, mobs not appearing until ages after you enter an area etc. are just nothing but a royal PITA, especially when you have 10000 dailies to do. The hourly instance limit is a relic of the past (when servers couldn't take the load), and the 20 sec logout is simply baffling...at least give us a 'logout now' button like the one we get for exiting the game.

The way that zoning works in raid instances now is so broken it's unreal...give us portals at the entrance and at specific points throughout the instance so we can actually run out and summon/mount/mailbox etc. instead of having to HS and fly back because it's faster than running the whole length of the instance. And Sunsong Ranch is still littered with artificial slowdowns and some broken mechanics.

(and before you say "omg impatience" or "let's just give everything on a silver plate", remember that Blizz made it this way...they added the alt-unfriendly artificial-slowdown stuff like 10000 dailies for gearing up and rep gating etc. that made the drive for efficiency > fun so prevalent in MoP)

Then there's all the bugs with old raid bosses that get reported up to X years ago and left alone (C'Thun spellpower-based stomach damage, Vezax healing debuffs aimed at features no longer in-game, Faction Champions despawning etc.) - come on Blizz, a lot of people are running these bosses now...whether it be for pets, transmogs, achievements or solo challenges.

Give WoW the once over, fix all this stuff, make the game less annoying for all people and subs will surely bounce back.

[spelle]

I totally agree, the "world" in World of Warcraft is simply not there any more. Prepare to be flamed though, as the "new" WoW community is full of fanbois standing in line to praise Blizzard's every move.

look here kids this is what we call a "hipster"

[Faroth]

Although I agree with the OP's analyses. I do not agree with the solution.

All the things you've listed are things they should never have implemented to begin with. You can't fix convenience in an online game.

Adding convenience to an online game is like doing drugs. It feels good for a while, but in the longterm you're going to be stuck with it and only see how badly it ruined everything.

Very interesting and somehow appropriate way to put it.

Quality of life and convenience additions should always be added with great caution.

[Tomana]

World PvP is the thing that brought immersion and it was immersion that brought the players and the players brought the money. If you look at a graph of the subscribers you will see a steady rise in Subs while wow was immersive during the Vanilla and BC times but then as WOTL arrived you will see it level off and then fall and it's falling fast now. This is because people left but more important, people left and told others how bad the game had become.

Go get an economy course, fast. Especially the part on "life cycle of a product" (though that's more of a marketing thing, but still).

Remove the following things:

All ability to teleport to Dungeons, Make everyone ride there.
Remove Flying mounts from Azeroth
Remove all high level guards from low level towns and villages
Buff Dungeons so that you actually need to play your class properly
Remove at least 50% of wind riders and graveyards, get the traffic back on the roads
Remove Ability to teleport into Battlegrounds, make us go to battlemasters as in the old days (just make more of them to avoid griefers).
Remove a lot of phasing as it ruins immersion when you chase someone and they suddenly vanish.

Yes, so that people unsub even more. Great plan! /sarcasm

[Bender]

If I was still playing WoW, I would quit instantly if these changes were implemented. WoW is a very old game, Blizzard would need to pull something absolutely spectacular out of their magic ass in order to get an increasing trend in subs. Subs will increase and decrease with content cycles, but the trend will be a constant dip no matter what they do. If Blizzard did what you suggest here I bet the subscriber count would plummet at an extreme rate. QoL improvements lead to the peak in WotlK, but at that time the game was already old.

I do share your nostalgia though, vanilla and BC times were fantastic. However, rose-tinted glasses aside the game was utter shit then compared to what it is now and I would be hard pressed to last a week of vanilla style play if I would try it again today. Immersion is cool but it's quite impossible to get that kind of immersion again in a 10 year old game, the been there-done that aspect of it is completely overwhelming at this point.

[StationaryHawk]

Sorry. I find it hard to believe that you actually know what's best for the game. These sound like personal preferences.

[Harazi]

About flying mounts ... pretty sure there are a few zones where you can't quest/get around at all without a flying mount (Storm Peaks, Icecrown, Deepholme, etc). And I really don't see how flying mounts were a bad addition. Being able to get from place to place quickly isn't a bad thing, and if that is honestly hurting your immersion, you were never immersed in the first place. I've spent quite alot of time just flying over the various cities and terrain and enjoying the sites (and there's something fun about divebombing into a group of enemies). I really doubt any of you want to see the QoL changes go away.

You want to know what the problems are? The playerbase, for a number of reasons. Fewer and fewer people are courteous and kind and warm to each other. No one talks to each other or converses or gets to know one another.

The playerbase's reaction to Cata hurt the game badly too. Because of that reaction, Blizzard has become convinced that any major undertaking that isn't a raid or expansion will be hated ... hence we'll prolly never see any other old zones revisited and revamped (Hell, Org prolly won't change at all after Siege, even though it should).

The playerbase's impatience and spoiled attitudes hurt the game as well. Now Blizzard is all about speed. The playerbase won't allow Blizzard to take it's time and work on things. That's why we get smaller degrees of content, aside from raids. The playerbase has somehow convinced Blizzard that raids is all we want. That's why we'll never see all these minor (but intriguing) storylines wrapped up, all these cool little ideas that used to fill up the suggestion forum, it'll never happen, because no one wants to give Blizzard time and space.

And this leads right into the thing about players consuming content too fast. I know what you will say, no, content has not gotten easier. It's harder than ever. We just all know what we're doing. We know our rotations, we know the usual tricks and tactics and pitfalls that Blizz will throw at us. That's why dungeons and raids fall. Even when Blizz thinks outside the box (Dark Animus, Durumu, etc) ... and even then, when Blizz tries to think up something unique or weird, they get blasted for it. And it's not even consumption of group content ... how many of you, as soon as you dropped into Jade Forest, just floored it, didn't read quests, didn't look around, take in the sites, listen to the dialogue, just screamed at full speed to max level?

Everyone wants to keep up with the Joneses, everyone wants to be Paragon, everyone wants to be realm first or whatever the fuck it is. Slow. The. Fuck. Down.

Blizz is throwing themselves in every direction to please their playerbase, but no one is giving them any time, any space, any fucking praise. Faster, harder, more efficient. That's no way to enjoy any game.

[Notos]

Great idea, let's send WoW back to the bronze age of MMOs and watch the players flock to other games, just to satisfy your idea of what immersion is. I do think that flying mounts should never have been implemented in the game to begin with, but it's far too late to remove them from the game.

Very interesting and somehow appropriate way to put it.

Quality of life and convenience additions should always be added with great caution.

QoL changes don't happen in a vacuum. Other games were implementing new ideas that appealed to players, and Blizz had to keep up or lose subs.

[markdall]

Then when you eventually got into the Dungeon you had to concentrate, use your class well and be prepared for at least a good hour long Dungeon.

. Man. This is by far the #1 thing I miss in wow.

[bleh bleh 420 bleh]

I'm a casual player because that's what i can get away with. I would LOVE to play BC opening week again, Hellfire Penninsula was a warzone even on pve servers. I remember getting for the Alliance. And remember Horde coming and getting revenge. Flying ruined WoW....

[mjolnir1122]

As a few of you will know who have seen my recent WOW videos I have returned after a 3 year break to see what has gone wrong with the game I played 6 times a week for 6 years of my life.

One word can easily sum up what is wrong with WOW and that word is "IMMERSION"

When I played through Vanilla and BC many years ago this game was incredible, the immersion of the whole experience engulfed you so much that you literally could lose yourself for hours in the world of Azeroth.

To get immersion the one thing you need is a thriving world and WOW used to have that in abundance. Everywhere was busy, Horde and Alliance would often meet in random places as two guilds were on their way to various Dungeons and this small skirmish would often escalate into a large war.

The game was total sandbox, no one had any idea what would happen during your daily play time. Our guild would have a plan to maybe go to BRD but on the way we may be ganked by another guild, again this would start a war off which usually ended with both sides calling in other guilds for help. Then when you eventually got into the Dungeon you had to concentrate, use your class well and be prepared for at least a good hour long Dungeon.

Then we had the questing, quite often I would find my quest areas compromised by Alliance and have to send for help in order to get them to leave, it was great fun. Sure you sometimes were corpse camped but Azeroth was dangerous back then.

Sometimes we would be in Org discussing what we would be doing when 100 Alliance would storm through the gates to kill Thrall, it was just an amazing living thriving world, totally in the players control.

Now though it's totally different, the Cities are full but the towns and roads are empty. People don't need to leave their capital city, they can teleport everywhere like lemmings, striving to get gear but for what? So they can dual outside their City gates?

All over Azeroth the little towns and villages that attracted so much world PvP are now guarded with level 90 Guards. Instead we have to PvP either in the boring battlegrounds or try and find someone questing.

The trouble is why would anyone be questing now? They can level up in BG's and Dungeons without leaving the AH.

World PvP is the thing that brought immersion and it was immersion that brought the players and the players brought the money. If you look at a graph of the subscribers you will see a steady rise in Subs while wow was immersive during the Vanilla and BC times but then as WOTL arrived you will see it level off and then fall and it's falling fast now. This is because people left but more important, people left and told others how bad the game had become.

So lets talk solutions:

Blizzard need to swallow their pride, admit they got it wrong and give Azeroth back to the people.

Remove the following things:

All ability to teleport to Dungeons, Make everyone ride there.
Remove Flying mounts from Azeroth
Remove all high level guards from low level towns and villages
Buff Dungeons so that you actually need to play your class properly
Remove at least 50% of wind riders and graveyards, get the traffic back on the roads
Remove Ability to teleport into Battlegrounds, make us go to battlemasters as in the old days (just make more of them to avoid griefers).
Remove a lot of phasing as it ruins immersion when you chase someone and they suddenly vanish.

Add the following things

All future expansions should take place in Azeroth, do not add any more zones, just develop the story on Azeroth so it thrives once again.

Conclusion

Ofc none of this will happen as the tears that would be shed could possibly flood the world and wipe us all out. The new breed of player has no balls, has no ability to shake him/herself down after being ganked and certainly has no patience to ride from A to B. Can you imagine the wow players of today trying to survive in Vanilla, they would have a heart attack at how hardcore it used to be. No I am afraid MMO's now are so easy, so spoon fed that the players today simply could not cope with old wow.

From a business point of view Blizzard are currently their own worst enemy, they are killing the game by making it so easy and forgiving. If they opened a BC server millions would return, but this would be an admission of doing it wrong and the PR department won't allow that

The "new" breed of player also lives in a world where the economy is in complete dissaray and no longer has 6 days a week to devote to playing a game. If Blizzard were to do even half of what you said to remove, that would be this games death sentence. You offer no real suggestions other than "Vanilla and TBC FTW!", and frankly I'm getting pretty tired of the Nostalgia rhetoric.

You've been gone for 3 years you've said, so pretty much everything you're seeing is brand new to you. I have plenty of friends who have been playing since Vanilla who would quit before they turned it back into Vanilla 2.0. Now I didn't start playing until WoTLK, but shit I remember watching my friends in high school playing for hours upon hours on end. Obviously you don't remember any of the bad, and only the good, but that type of attitude isn't going to save anything other than the very small player base who would love to see that implemented.

If they opened a BC server, millions might return, but for how long? Are you seriously telling me that you're going to play for another 8 years with absolutely nothing new added? That is probably the biggest thing that most people overlook when they bring that up. It might be so much fun in the beginning, but I can't really see people's interest lasting more than a year or two at max.

But heres a crazy idea, so strap on that seatbelt. How about you accept the changes that have happened and adapt to it, just like you're telling us that we would adapt to the removing all of the things that you stated. As I stated earlier, people literally can't afford to play 6 days a week for hours on end anymore. So maybe, just maybe, the current state of the game makes it fissable for people to actually enjoy the game, enjoy the content, and not have to worry about spending all of their playing time for one day go to running back to the questgiver across the zone.

Mists was probably the least casual-friendly expansion since TBC. Leveling was not a 1-2-3 process. If you wanted to avoid drawing a large mob, you had to strategically wait or find a way around them, quests themselves were kind of lengthy, special quest mobs hit harder and had mechanics that could one shot you if you didn't move or pop CD's, You couldn't be raid ready in the matter of 3 days, and even when you got there your chances of loot were pretty shitty. Sure, the bonus rolls gave you another shot, but alot of the time you still didn't get loot. Also, you couldn't just save up your VP's and buy the best gear, you had to actually work at grinding rep to have access to them. You want that shiny new mount? You had to work even harder. Now compare that to Cata, where you would hit 85 within 5 days, and have a full set of epics within 3, and that was that. There wasn't much else to that expansion other than that. Mists of Pandaria is casual friendly in some aspects, but in general it's pretty challenging. Maybe not as challenging as the almighty TBC, but probably the biggest challenge since then.

[mvaliz]

This doesn't sound like you want immersion. This sounds more like you are a PVP griefer and are upset that there's no newbie camp locations anymore...

[Darksoldierr]

You grown up mate, deal with it.

[Seranthor]

This doesn't sound like you want immersion. This sounds more like you are a PVP griefer and are upset that there's no newbie camp locations anymore...

I would have to agree with you on that

[Lilly32]

I totally agree, the "world" in World of Warcraft is simply not there any more. Prepare to be flamed though, as the "new" WoW community is full of fanbois standing in line to praise Blizzard's every move.

Have to agree here. People praise Blizzard when they dont deserve it. Seeing what has happened to WoW since Wrath I dont understand how people can actually say Blizzard is doing a good job. Its now a fact that they arent. 4 million quit over the last 2 expansions. During TBC and Wrath the numbers skyrocketed and now they are sinking faster than the Titanic. Hell there are still people who still defend Dablo 3. That game was an epic failure. Sold 10+ million copies and theres what a few 100k left playing and they are doing everything they can to drive them off as well. People dont want to pay for MMOs anymore when there are decent Free2play games out there. Also Blizzard has shown they no longer care about the players. I dont know about SC but it seems thats true for D3 and WoW.