Thoughts on the new Warchief

[zephid]

I think he is worthy, he has proven him self loyal to the Horde for as long as I can remember, more than any other candidate. Like Thrall said, it's because of Vol'jin's efforts that the Horde held together during the latest events.

He has been one of my favorite characters since I played WC3 all those years ago, I'm happy to see him get this great role!

I wouldn't say that the horde held together considering the fact that there's a war going on within the horde.

[dirk123]

oh you mean that novel that force feed us a script for a character as there reason for him becoming warcraft, even against all reason, despite said character doing nothing for years beforehand.
yeah, that character, the one nobody remembered or cared about for years, and once blizzard threw him at this community, people reaction being 'oh hey yeah I remember him, well thats new, and I like new things, so I'll follow that'.

there are no principles in this community. people are just shallow.

Many people remembered him. Especially since the Cata pre-event where he retakes the Echo Isles (yes, his NPC does fight in it) and him defending Ogrimmar during the elemental unrest. Not to mention the Troll starting zone in Cata.
Wether people cared for him is all opinion.
In my opinion (and many other), Warcraft evolved beyond simply "Orcs Vs Humans" since WC3. Some people liked it some people like you don't.
Yes, the book felt forced. Hell, imho if they really wanted that book to matter, they should have released it between 5.1 and 5.2. Not when 5.3 was already live, thus making his book mostly useless and without risks (since we knew he would stay alive in the book cause he was in 5.3).

If a game takes a direction I don't like, I stick with it for a while to see if they at least do stuff which I do like.
I for example liked SWtOR. Didn't liked some of the choices they made and completely stopped when they decided the "class" stories would be discontinued.
Maybe you should do the same for Warcraft, seeing from most of your posts and topics the game is in your opinion going the wrong way.

[Wildberry]

I wouldn't say that the horde held together considering the fact that there's a war going on within the horde.

Not to mention, the only person responsible for the rebellion happening with ease was Hellscream, who, had accomplished pissing off not only every leader, but every person in a noteworthy position in the Horde.

Hellscream's tyranny was the reason the rebellion was formed with ease, not Vol'jin's leadership ability and political acuteness.

[The Glitch]

there are no principles in this community. people are just shallow.

There you go again Trassk, making blanket statments about everyone.

Some people can like different things, it doesn't mean those people that don't agree with you have no principles or that they are shallow. It means they like different things.

I used to respect your opinion on these boards, even if I didn't agree with you all the time, but all the complaining you do, all the outright disdain you have and show towards anyone that doesn't agree with you, makes reading your posts difficult and sometimes comical. It's hard to take your posts serious when you are so hypocritical. One rule for you, another rule for everyone else it seems.

[Zulkhan]

You want to make an argument about pride, i say you should eat it. Don't patronize orc fans who have loved the orcs story in warcraft for years, just to see there favorite race yet anally raped by this story.

If the Horde always had an orc as Warchief it's simply because, you know, orcs was all that the Horde was.

Now the Horde have SIX damn races, and three of them were equally responsible in creating the New Horde, and Thrall was indeed the Warchief because he gave it birth with freeing the orcs by the enternement camps.

But things change and the story go forward, and to be honest, when Thrall left the Horde in Cataclysm, Vol'jin should have been the person of choice (Cairne would have been better, but he was good and dead) but Thrall was worried about orc's reaction to a non-orc Warchief, and his love for Grom blinded him to reality about how Garrosh was unfitting for the role. He gave to the orcs what the orcs wanted, a hulky brown orc to make them strong and proud again, and all that happened is their own pride destroying themselves, and needed a rebellion triggered by the leader of the trolls for literally save them from themselves, or more specifically, the tyrant regime in which the "real orc Warchief" put them.

This whole plot turned from a story where everyone was meant to learn a lesson about the negative emotions we have.. to being it that only orcs are the ones who don't understand it, and there pride being a danger.

Orcs proved to be more susceptible to the danger of pride more than any other, since Garrosh successfully brought a lot of them on his side, and the whole reason for which Nazgrim has been unable to thrown away his oath was both for loyalty and pride aswell. This doesn't mean they are a bunch of morons, they just need to be humbled a bit, which doesn't mean "you are pet slaves now", they just need to learn a completely different concept of pride.

And yet, we see at the end of all this, human pride coming out of Varians ass, and trolls are now filled with pride in having there leader as leader of the horde.

So, pride, as something that anyone else can have and it not an issue, but if orcs have it, it is bad?

The problem is not orcs having pride, is that they had too much of it. And about trolls "filled with pride", Vol'jin turned his ass to those trolls, the Zandalari, that speaks of pride and nostalgia towards the "good old times" of trollish supremacy over the world. If Vol'jin would have give any kind of credit to pride as the orcs did, now he would have rallied the Zandalari to conquer the Horde and rule them as the dominant race.

Yeah, you can shove that message. The orcs have been reduced to a lesser role in the horde because of all this.

For me, this was warcraft:

but not anymore, just replace the orc with a troll and thats what warcraft is.

Nope, the orcs are still there, Saurfang is still there and there will be an orc leader that the orcs will follow and respect, like the other races did. Its just that the Horde as a whole, the alliance of six races, have a fitting leader now, someone who knew the Horde and the burdens of leadership more than that moron of Garrosh will ever know; and sorry, but the fact that this leader is not an orc is not a damn tragedy, and I'm sure the orcs will learn to deal with it without feeling like an "inferior race", because if this is what they need to not feel "inferior", means that on the contrary they need to feel "superior".

[Deleted]

I do not dislike Vol as a character, actualy i'm very found of him but to me, placing him has a permanent warchief ain't suitable at all. It's like if Sam would be the main keeper of the ring. both Vol and Sam are one of a kind and undisputed in the role they play in both franchises. In the end I do believe that not everyone is ment to take the crown but that fact doesn't change the greatness of their acts. with the plot we had sure, i agree he was the best choice of them all but i'd rather devs to explore dorment lore to bring back a hero more suitable for this event.

[glorithan]

wheres the option 'disappointed'.

My concern isn't with vol'jin being in charge. my concern is that of the orcs, and since the hordes story has always been the orcs against the humans, this is a pretty bleak turning point for all orcs.

The game has evolved passed the simple war of humans and orcs. You all need to grasp that firmly and understand that there are in fact OTHER races then humans and orcs in this game.

Its NOT called 'World of Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans: (insert expansion name)'

There will still be plenty of orcs in world of warcraft and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Vol'jin leading the horde.

[Wildberry]

The game has evolved passed the simple war of humans and orcs.

It's been that way for a while, that doesn't change the fact that Humans and Orcs were the heads of their respective factions, even when other races were implemented into this game and recieved a fair bit of lore, I think that was a trend that we should have stuck with.

You all need to grasp that firmly and understand that there are in fact OTHER races then humans and orcs in this game.

Its NOT called 'World of Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans: (insert expansion name)'

No, it's not, if I may make a counter-argument however. In Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness & Beyond the Dark Portal, AND Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos & The Frozen Throne, there were plenty of other races with plenty of development, who recieved plenty of time in the spot light, that didn't change the fact that Blizzard still adhered to "Humans leading the Alliance, Orcs leading the Horde."

There will still be plenty of orcs in world of warcraft and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Vol'jin leading the horde.

Aside from the fact that Vol'jin is a piss poor leader and a character only worthy of utter contempt, there's a rather lengthy post a few pages about this, don't expect me to repeat any of those arguments.


Back when the Warchief's identity was still up in the air, I was compared to an "Old grumpy conservative who refuses to get with the times." by a certain poster, fair criticism or not, that's the tag I got. Let me say now, then, that if I am the above, then the rest of this community is "The Naive Young Liberal, Who pushes for change where it's not needed, to correct a percieved injustice, while ignoring the root of the problem." Enjoy your Trolls vs. Humans, I doubt the other races are going to see much of the spot light.

[Grimblake]

Vol'jin never said he was the Warchief in the video, but he said he would speak for the Horde. It might be a twist on Blizzards end to surprise us

[Deleted]

As a fully Alliance player, I think that Vol'jin is the only choice that we could accept as new Warchief, apart from arguably Baine.
He was willing to ask for our help and work with us in the past (4.1, 5.3), and has pretty much always been the voice of reason against Garrosh wars.
The fact that he isn't a Orc is a plus (Orcs have showed horrible leadership problems in their history).

[Trassk]

Vol'jin never said he was the Warchief in the video, but he said he would speak for the Horde. It might be a twist on Blizzards end to surprise us

don't be naive, blizzard are going for shock value not.

- - - Updated - - -

As a fully Alliance player, I think that Vol'jin is the only choice that we could accept as new Warchief, apart from arguably Baine.
He was willing to ask for our help and work with us in the past (4.1, 5.3), and has pretty much always been the voice of reason against Garrosh wars.
The fact that he isn't a Orc is a plus (Orcs have showed horrible leadership problems in their history).

every alliance players says this, because they dont' give a rats ass about the hordes values.

Now, if the alliances values were shit all over in the same way this has, I bet you'd be singing a different tune.

[Wildberry]

He was willing to ask for our help and work with us in the past (4.1, 5.3)

Asking the Alliance for help in 5.3 was Baine's idea, something that Vol'jin did, but he wasn't to happy about it. In regards to Horde members willing to work with Alliance Characters, what about
-Saurfang
-Thrall
-Eitrigg
-Rehgar Earthfury
-Halduron Brightwing (4.1)
-Baine Bloodhoof

Vol'jin asking the Alliance for assistance or being able to work with the Alliance isn't a rare trait.

has pretty much always been the voice of reason against Garrosh wars.

Voice of reason? You mean ignoring his position as the Warchief's advisor to taunt Garrosh with Death Threats. The only time he was ever the voice of reason was in the Troll starting zone and 5.1, it was Baine who actively voiced his opinion against Garrosh's plans to conquer Theramore (Something Vol'jin considered unwise) Baine was also the one who decided he should go to Pandaria and make sure Garrosh doesn't cross the line.

The fact that he isn't a Orc is a plus (Orcs have showed horrible leadership problems in their history).

Yes because Orcs make such terrible leaders....give me a fucking break...
-Thrall
-Saurfang
-Rehgar Earthfury
-Durotan
-Draka
-Orgrim Doomhammer
-Grommash Hellscream
-Ner'zhul (He was duped by Kil'jaeden, he was stripped of his powers both politically and on a spiritual level, both directly and indirectly by Gul'dan and Kil'Jaeden, he is also the reason Durotan knew not to drink from the Chalice.)
-Drek'thar
-Garad
-Greatmother Geyah
-Kilrogg Deadeye
-Jorin Deadeye
-Dranosh Saurfang
-Zuluhed the Whacked
-Nazgrel
-Eitrigg
-Ariok
There's a list of some Orcs that have held noteworthy positions in their lives and haven't dropped the ball.

[Uoyredrum]

I'd rather have saurfang or even just have thrall go back to being warchief instead of a random superhero shaman that shows up to save the world every expansion. Not that there isn't a reason he's doing it, it just seems silly. Vol'jin isn't a bad leader but it just seems too obvious. Maybe blizzard saying it would be someone we didn't expect (lol.) ruined it for me, not sure. I was really hoping it would be saurfang but lo and behold he wasn't even in the cinematic (either of them). Meh. We'll see what happens. I suppose it doesn't really matter since the writing for blizzard games in general has become so lazy/bad post wc3 that most people are just going to complain regardless of what happens (me included, probably).

[Fullmetal89]

Boring choice, uninspired, no real qualifications (inb4 "he lead the rebellion," not true Lor'themar & Baine did much more for the rebellion than Vol'jin did he was knocked out for half the expansion). My choice would have been Varrok Saurfang, he should have been Warchief back in Cataclysm too. He's the best choice by far in terms of leadership, experience, and faction relations (everyone respects Saurfang). Vol'jin is only a slight step-up from Garrosh, he's not exactly an honorable character he planned on stabbing the Warchief in the back. Oh well, what can we expect from Blizzard nowadays, after the Diablo 3 fiasco and the horribad cliched plot of Heart of Swarm (still loved the expansion though) I wasn't expecting much out of 5.4. This patch wont get me to resub in fact its making damn sure that I stay out of WoW. Only thing that could bring me back is if Azshara stars in the next expansion.

[Zulkhan]

every alliance players says this, because they dont' give a rats ass about the hordes values.

What "horde values" have to do with put an orc to lead the Horde at all costs? That's not a value, that's just obstinacy. Plus, nothing hints that Vol'jin will remains there forever, but really, a non-orc Warchief, for now, fits very well after all that happened until now.

[Wildberry]

What "horde values" have to do with put an orc to lead the Horde at all costs? That's not a value, that's just obstinacy. Plus, nothing hints that Vol'jin will remains there forever, but really, a non-orc Warchief, for now, fits very well after all that happened until now.

I hate this argument, I really do.
I assume that the Night Elves shouldn't govern themselves after Azshara's Tomfoolery, Prince Arthas? I guess all humans are walking on thin ice now, Kael'thas tried to summon the Burning Legion? I guess that disqualifies Blood Elves from Leadership. The Gurubashi are trying to summon their Blood Guard, impeach all trolls now please.
Blanket statements are never a good thing...

Vol'jin isn't even that great of a leader, there were plenty of others in the Horde with a far better track record.

In fact the only thing contained in your post that I actually don't hate is:

Plus, nothing hints that Vol'jin will remains there forever.

[Deleted]

According to this poll, the vast majority is happy with the current choice.

Being unhappy with the decision simply because it's not an orc pulling the reins is just plain silly. Let's just wait and see where they are taking the story.

[Deleted]

I hope the Trollanize "Orgrimmar" in the next expansion.

[Trassk]

What "horde values" have to do with put an orc to lead the Horde at all costs? That's not a value, that's just obstinacy. Plus, nothing hints that Vol'jin will remains there forever, but really, a non-orc Warchief, for now, fits very well after all that happened until now.

I look at your avatar, then i look at what you write, and for however reserved it is, its obvious your don't give a shit how this act crushes every aspect of the orcs from the story. I'm not kidding, it really does, you don't get what it feels like seeing your favourite race, whos been the figurehead of the horde for over a decade, suddenly reduced to this, you can't understand that, because right now all your thinking is 'a troll is in charge, cool'.

[Deleted]

Asking the Alliance for help in 5.3 was Baine's idea, something that Vol'jin did, but he wasn't to happy about it. In regards to Horde members willing to work with Alliance Characters, what about
-Saurfang
-Thrall
-Eitrigg
-Rehgar Earthfury
-Halduron Brightwing (4.1)
-Baine Bloodhoof

Vol'jin asking the Alliance for assistance or being able to work with the Alliance isn't a rare trait.
[...] it was Baine who actively voiced his opinion against Garrosh's plans to conquer Theramore (Something Vol'jin considered unwise) Baine was also the one who decided he should go to Pandaria and make sure Garrosh doesn't cross the line.

Well, in fact I would have personally liked Baine a lot (Taurens are my favourite Horde race), and have respect for Saurfang or Eitrigg.
Thrall is another question, I think that most Alliance players have mixed feelings about him. He is a respectable Orc, but his forced "neutral but not so much" status in Cataclysm have made him disliked by many.
The others you mentioned are not Warchief material tbh.

Yes because Orcs make such terrible leaders....give me a fucking break...
-Thrall
-Saurfang
-Rehgar Earthfury
-Durotan
-Draka
-Orgrim Doomhammer
-Grommash Hellscream
-Ner'zhul (He was duped by Kil'jaeden, he was stripped of his powers both politically and on a spiritual level, both directly and indirectly by Gul'dan and Kil'Jaeden, he is also the reason Durotan knew not to drink from the Chalice.)
-Drek'thar
-Garad
-Greatmother Geyah
-Kilrogg Deadeye
-Jorin Deadeye
-Dranosh Saurfang
-Zuluhed the Whacked
-Nazgrel
-Eitrigg
-Ariok
There's a list of some Orcs that have held noteworthy positions in their lives and haven't dropped the ball.

I didn't say that Orcs hadn't great leaders in the past, but that more often than not they chose to follow disastrous paths of war and lust for power.
Blackhand, Ner'zhul, Garrosh, ... Thrall has pretty much been the only sane Warchief since that title was created.