Another update from Bashiok about WoD flying.

[Abstieg]

fact:
You're bitching about future changes in a game that is bound to bring back world pvp for a few months at best.
You don't play the game.
You claim anyone who doesn't agree with you either an asshole (see quote above) or ignorant, without giving any factual reasons why other than differing opinion.
you act like it's a permanent change for the whole expansion not just till you complete a set goal the developers want you to achive before getting it (god forbid anyone put effort into their characters)

so far all i see is you trolling this forum over non issues at best.

something i think everyone needs to step back take a deep breath and read

THEY ARE NOT PERMANENTLY REMOVING FLYING IN THE NEW EXPANSION OR ANYWHERE YOU CAN FLY NOW.
THEY ARE NOT REMOVING FLYING SKILL.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO KEEP YOU FROM FLYING THE ENTIRE EXPANSION.
IT IS ONLY HAPPENING UNTILL 1ST CONTENT PATCH WICH WON'T BE VERY LONG AFTER IT IS RELEASED.
See all you whiners in the new expansion.

Did you miss the part where they are planning on keeping flying out of all current content?

[Giscoicus]

I pay to play the game the way I like it; the way I've played it since Burning Crusade.

I don't pay to play it to humor some small whiny group of the community who want flying removed. No one is forcing them to use flying. "World PvP" is a trite argument and little more than a talking point; world PvP died with battlegrounds, not flying.

True, but flying has changed WPvP. Now it is all divebomb and fly away. Heck even in TBC it was like that, but at least then flying mounts didnt let you get across the world in no time at all. It has made WPvP worse since now all somebody has to do is rush out of range so they can mount up. Also it has more ganking from high level players since they can get to a low level zone and back to their main city in absolutely no time.

Also, as the devs have explained, they feel flying is all around damaging, not just to WPvP. I get that people like the convinence, but it does take away from gameplay as far as the devs see. I believe their goal is to extend general content as much as possible so that it isnt hit max level -> grind dungeons -> raid. They already said that they want people to be in some normal dungeons first, before jumping into heroic dungeons, and hopefully LFR will be somewhere else entirely from the gearing process. Flying massively shortens content by making everything quicker, and making the world feel much smaller despite its size.

The thing about nobody forcing them to fly is a weak point. For many players they feel that flight is damaging to their immersion. This game is an RPG afterall, however it is also an MMO. If it was a single player, you dont really worry about competition for ore/herbs/mobs, nor have any connection to others. In WoW, you will have a hard time on a well populated server to be successful on the AH if you arent flying, because you will gather so much more slowly. Same with other stuff, look at 5.0, if I stayed on my ground mount and only used flight points it would take a long time to get dailies done, thus I could maybe finish Klaxxi in the time others finished Order of the Cloud Serpent, Shado-Pan and Klaxxi. It puts you at a large disadvantage compared to other players.

It shouldnt be pick MMO or RPG. If you play the MMO and dont want to be immersed fine, but you shouldnt have an advatage over those who want some RPG, and they should not be at a disadvantage in MMO play because they want to experience content and not just get rewards

[Arteous]

Did you miss the part where they are planning on keeping flying out of all current content?

yes i did please provide a link with a blue posting it for me. last i read they were only doing it in the new area only.

If they are doing it for ALL of the game .. GOOD!!!

the whiners will quit .. come back and quit again when they hit max level and see the content as usuall.

[Last Starfighter]

Did you miss the part where they are planning on keeping flying out of all current content?

No, not all current content. Only when pre 6.1 is current content.

[Traveler Voltin]

fact:
You're bitching about future changes in a game that is bound to bring back world pvp for a few months at best.
You don't play the game.
You claim anyone who doesn't agree with you either an asshole (see quote above) or ignorant, without giving any factual reasons why other than differing opinion.
you act like it's a permanent change for the whole expansion not just till you complete a set goal the developers want you to achive before getting it (god forbid anyone put effort into their characters)

so far all i see is you trolling this forum over non issues at best.

something i think everyone needs to step back take a deep breath and read:

THEY ARE NOT PERMANENTLY REMOVING FLYING IN THE NEW EXPANSION OR ANYWHERE YOU CAN FLY NOW.
THEY ARE NOT REMOVING FLYING SKILL.
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO KEEP YOU FROM FLYING THE ENTIRE EXPANSION.
IT IS ONLY HAPPENING UNTILL 1ST CONTENT PATCH WICH WON'T BE VERY LONG AFTER IT IS RELEASED.

See all you whiners in the new expansion.

1. on a pve server havent cared about WPVP since cata killed it.
2. i still care about it.
3. wrong you and another person are acting like assholes because how you are wording and treating other.
4. yes gate something we already had for a patch just to try and make it feel wonderful again. how is that not going to backfire?

once again i havent been trolling. everything now a days is labelled troll for no real reason.
you are still missing the points so whatever.

[azurrei]

First - the people crying about lack of wpvp are completely opposite of the people crying about losing flying.

Second, you are going to get your wish. I predict wow will be down to 2-3m subs by the end of WoD and will stay that way for the next decade, with nothing but hardcore "elitists" like yourself around, with none of the casual/altoholic types around to bother you. So you will get your wish, if Blizzard continues on this path.

- - - Updated - - -



More likely "won't buy the expac and resub at launch" types. Subs are going to continue to drop for the rest of this xpac, and with very casual/alt unfriendly policies coming down the pipe, as well as no real story progression, people who quit don't have any reason to come back until 6.1




Funny... I did the same thing, and came to the opposite conclusion, I missed flying so much and couldn't stand being dismounted and dazed by mobs that had no business putting me in combat. I would have never played Wrath if I had to spend so much time winding my way through so many mobs every single week to raid. Flying is one of the things I loved about wrath, I love about wow.

I even remember doing the epic druid flight form quest. And taking screenshots of me flying in Blade's Edge. That was immersion... not being dismounted by a random npc 3 levels below me.

It's going to be amusing when some of the "hard core" people (especially the one's that literally level to cap and do nothing but log in for raids)start crying when it cost them 10's of thousands of gold (maybe an understatement) to level their raiding professions or buy some starter gear and weapons because no one wants to waste their time picking resources on a ground mount. The economy is going to be beyond bad for those that have little gold, although those who have the time and desire to spend 10x as long to gather the same amount of materials will make some nice coin in the end. If this no flying BS goes through I'll be leveling alts and building up garrison money making machines while other people suffer on the ground @ 100 trying to do dailies or whatever.

[melodramocracy]

More likely "won't buy the expac and resub at launch" types. Subs are going to continue to drop for the rest of this xpac, and with very casual/alt unfriendly policies coming down the pipe, as well as no real story progression, people who quit don't have any reason to come back until 6.1

See, this is the thing that I find preposterous. Aside from the no-fly issue, which really is trivial at best, the rest of this expansion absolutely continues the stream of casual appeasement that's been prevalent since 4.3.

You're getting housing, which will include bots that fetch you mats, gold, epics, etc
You're getting to skip 9/10ths of all leveling content in 1 button press.
You're (likely) still getting easy, quick heroic dungeons.
You're going to have far far fewer dailies
You have an expanded means of raiding via more flex modes.
You're getting QoL changes made to professions.
You're getting a highly simplified armor system.
You're getting simplified stats. You're being made so awesome that you'll never miss or get resisted! (seriously, wtf)

All this, and you still deem this game to be hostile to the casual player? Pass me some of what you're smoking.

[Goat7]

The game was much better when flying mounts did not exist. Imo I wish they would of never been in the game. The game is not what it used to be tho, its become so casual. Its like a facebook game now. So on that note I don't know why they won't allow flying at launch. They might as well just allow it and make all the casuals happy (which is the majority of the subs). It will ruin the launch but those ppl won't care and won't notice. Imo.

[Gheld]

Blizzard has added a million features to make everything easier and faster for the lazy

I've busted my ass off to advance my career to the point of being able to live comfortably.

I do my own yard work.

When a friend or relative needs my help I jump to the task.

I cook real meals instead of living off of energy drinks and take out.

I have a gardening/horticulture hobby that I like to keep with.

And with what little time left, if I'm going to spend it on WoW, I need to be able to have fun.

If somebody who actually knew me were to come up to my face and called me lazy, I would laugh. Because it would probably be a joke.

No flying til 6.1 might not be a game changer for somebody who puts as much "effort" into WoW (a game. An elective form of entertainment) as I put into my life in general. But for me it would be a game changer.

[Traveler Voltin]

The game was much better when flying mounts did not exist. Imo I wish they would of never been in the game. The game is not what it used to be tho, its become so casual. Its like a facebook game now. So on that note I don't know why they won't allow flying at launch. They might as well just allow it and make all the casuals happy (which is the majority of the subs). It will ruin the launch but those ppl won't care and won't notice. Imo.

its ALWAYS BEEN CASUAL even when it was released it was the most casual. the only difference now is everything is less time consuming.

[Grimmer]

I'm curious why both sides care about how many subscribers they have, personally.

It would be one thing if the game was in danger, but 7+ mil, even when you cut out alt or non-payment methods overseas, is still ridiculously more than most games on the market, domestic or otherwise.

Waving it around like a big peen number seems weird to me - frankly, I care more about whether there's good design being placed.

[Giscoicus]

I've busted my ass off to advance my career to the point of being able to live comfortably.

I do my own yard work.

When a friend or relative needs my help I jump to the task.

I cook real meals instead of living off of energy drinks and take out.

I have a gardening/horticulture hobby that I like to keep with.

And with what little time left, if I'm going to spend it on WoW, I need to be able to have fun.

If somebody who actually knew me were to come up to my face and called me lazy, I would laugh. Because it would probably be a joke.

No flying til 6.1 might not be a game changer for somebody who puts as much "effort" into WoW (a game. An elective form of entertainment) as I put into my life in general. But for me it would be a game changer.

MMOs simulate real life. Auction house professions guilds, sure it isnt exactly 2013 lifestyle, but it has a lot of aspects of the real world.

if you arent into MMOs dont play one. Dont come into a game genera and expect to to be how you want it to be.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm curious why both sides care about how many subscribers they have, personally.

It would be one thing if the game was in danger, but 7+ mil, even when you cut out alt or non-payment methods overseas, is still ridiculously more than most games on the market, domestic or otherwise.

Waving it around like a big peen number seems weird to me - frankly, I care more about whether there's good design being placed.

Because the sub number is the only thing they can actually use as far as logos goes, so they throw it out their constantly as a reason for any change.

Most arguments on these forums are all pathos and somewhat ethos. Pathos as in "please look LFR is really bad" "nonono you are being mean removing LFR is mean". Then people talk about how long they have been playing for ethos, and everybody has become so ignorant of that having any value (it has some value) so numbers is their default argument

[Kaleredar]

It wasn't "some small whiny group of the community" that decided to delay flying. It was the developers. While you're busy pouting I'll be enjoying WoD, ground mounts and all.

I'm under no illusion that said whiny group of players drove them to that decision.

It's clear that people weren't vehement enough in speaking out against it... Blizzard listened to the wrong people.



If nothing else, it'll remind people of how crappy it is to NOT have flying mounts in current content FAR bigger than a small daily island zone. Just gotta whip up a big enough frenzy about it, and hopefully Blizzard will think carefully about ever listening to the "flying mounts r teh sux" crowd ever again.

[foxHeart]

They want to take flying away and then make it not be a gold sink, but instead make us work for it over the course of a month or two, and then we finally get it back they want us to be excited because we "worked for it"? Do they think we are that stupid to feel like we earned something that's been arbitrarily stolen from us when we've enjoyed it for the past FOUR expansions? This is hands down the most fucking retarded thing Blizzard has ever done.

[Arteous]

1. on a pve server havent cared about WPVP since cata killed it.

world pvp technically died with battlegrounds in vanilla. but the true last nail in the coffin was flying in burning crusade. world pvp has been nonexistant since then. By looking at your characters it sure looks like you're one of those players that whine about any changes and only activates when new content is out and then cancels their account because they are bored.

2. i still care about it.

enough to only activate for content but put no effort into it. over 1/2 of the gear on both your characters is either ungemmed or not enchanted. If you cared about playing the game it would show on how your characters were geared before you stopped playing.

3. wrong you and another person are acting like assholes because how you are wording and treating other.

no we are just tired of fly by night payers like you wanting to dictate what my game i pay for and play 12 months of the year when you play maybe tops 3 out of the year.

4. yes gate something we already had for a patch just to try and make it feel wonderful again. how is that not going to backfire?
once again i havent been trolling. everything now a days is labelled troll for no real reason.
you are still missing the points so whatever.

if anything this is a non issue for fly by night (more like fly by content patch) players like yourself that activate and deactivate once the current last boss is dead. And yes you have been trolling, I haven't missed a single point. You and the vocal minority (fly by patch players) however feel that even though you play maximum 3 months out of the year at best should dictate how someone who plays it the whole year plays it. If anything you should have less say in anything because of this.

and then you resort to name calling to hold up a non issue arguement.

See you in the xpac! and if you truly feel the way you do. DON'T PRE-ORDER wait untill the 1st content patch hits and play then. level up and it's like you never had to "suffer" not being able to fly.

[The Kao]

You're right. Blizzard is not going properly about flying. It's time they simply remove it and turn all our flying mounts into flight master skins. Never touch the topic of flying again. Problem solved.

[Kaleredar]

You're right. Blizzard is not going properly about flying. It's time they simply remove it and turn all our flying mounts into flight master skins. Never touch the topic of flying again. Problem solved.

Have fun getting around Northrend... or Cataclysm... or spots of BC... or MoP...




As for flight paths, I find it hard to believe that the "we h8 flying" whiners find THAT to be an optimum solution.

Apparently AFKing on a flightpath completely detached from everything happening is considered "immersive gameplay."

[Arteous]

its ALWAYS BEEN CASUAL even when it was released it was the most casual. the only difference now is everything is less time consuming.

this just shows how out of touch yo uare with the game, that or just proves you bought your account from someone ealse during wrath and have no clue what it was like duing vanilla.

[Deleted]

Did you miss the part where they are planning on keeping flying out of all current content?

Smaller zones in patches make the no flying part acceptable. There was not nearly as much complaining (if any) regarding the no fly zones of isle of thunder and timeless isle.

I'm not sure the "all future content" is as big of a deal as the first tier of end game content where everything is spread out across all the different zones.

And to the pleasant fellow a few posts up calling everyone who is against no flying in 6.0 lazy - I.e the stock response of all elitist arseholes regarding all subjects in every possible sense of human existence - this is a game. We are supposed to have fun, having to spend twice as long getting where I need to get is frustrating, not fun.

The problem is that it was ever introduced. It wouldn't take twice as long if we had not ever been given the option, but we have and you negatively impact the experience by closing your Pandora's box.

I have little problem traversing a zone on the ground, I do have a problem traversing a continent. I want to spend my time in game, playing, not tabbed out on a flight path that goes in come curious hula hoop before landing me 5 minutes later.

[Kaleredar]

We are supposed to have fun, having to spend twice as long getting where I need to get is frustrating, not fun.

The problem is that it was ever introduced. It wouldn't take twice as long if we had not ever been given the option, but we have and you negatively impact the experience by closing your Pandora's box.

I have little problem traversing a zone on the ground, I do have a problem traversing a continent. I want to spend my time in game, playing, not tabbed out on a flight path that goes in come curious hula hoop before landing me 5 minutes later.

Most people don't seem to see that. They think that not having flying is going to be the most fun option for everyone... either that, or they seem to care why other people have flying mounts and how those people play the game.

Either way, both arguments are petty and short sighted, and not worth inconveniencing the entirety of the population over.