Blizzard is making heroics harder than MoP : Good or Bad?

[Roadblock]

So....... let me get this straight:

TBC: we made 5-mans very hard!
WotLK: 5-mans were way too hard, we made them easy!
Cata: 5-mans were way too easy, we made them hard again!
MoP: 5-mans were way too hard again, lets make them easy.... again!
WoD: 5-mans were again way too easy it just isn't fun..... so lets make them.... guess it..... hard again!

Well, let's hope they learned their lesson from Cata and will make them harder the proper way this time.
Ie you don't up the difficulty and gut the healing at the same time.
Early Cata heroics was the best fun I've had in small group content since the early days (I was a tank) at the same time I could sympathize with my healer friends (some of which I've been playing with for years and are not in the least squeamish about wiping or hard content) who felt entirely powerless to support the group.
They couldn't do triage (pick who survives, the tank or the bad dps) because soft-enrage mechanics and even when the encounter or trash group did allow triage the mana changes made them go oom in 10sec.

That was the bad design choice, not upping the difficulty, if they'd given healers some leeway to carry groups and not go oom in 10sec for the transition period while dps (as a whole) gets it into their heads that this is a new ball game where you need to focus targets, assist and (the horror) occasionally cc it would have been fine.
Good idea, bad implementation, I have hopes they will do it better this time around.

[Firebert]

Bye bye subscriptions, Blizzard doesn't seem to have learned from early Cataclysm.

[Faroth]

Emm I do think MoP heroics where tuned about the same as WotLK are you comparing end of MoP to start of WotLK?

We just vastly out gear them now, and there are no new ones tuned for higher gear.

When I first ran heroics in Wrath, you wanted to have a certain point of gear as a tank, you could use some CC but it wasn't necessary. Some of the bosses were a bit of a check and some of them still presented a challenge in blues and greens.

In MoP, the first heroic I did, we were all in greens and a couple blues here and there, nobody knew a single fight, and we just AoE tank/AoE damaged and 1 shot every boss without a clue what they did. Just figured it out mid-fight.

MoP launch heroics were not the same tuning as Wrath launch heroics.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2053469

Specific section:

"The bottom line is that we want Heroics and raids to be challenging, and that is particularly true now while the content is new and characters are still collecting gear. They’re only going to get easier from here on out. We want players to approach an encounter, especially a Heroic encounter, as a puzzle to be solved. We want groups to communicate and strategize. And by extension, we want you to celebrate when you win instead of it being a foregone conclusion."

That post was in Cata not MoP.

[Deleted]

It would work very well with pre-formed grps. However, it will make dungeon finder a nightmare, as the people in there sometimes doesn't even understand english and less so their class.

[Grocalis]

To be clear they are trying to put the new heroics on par with Vortex Pinnacle, which was one of the easier Cataclysm heroics. Don't expect another Grim Batol or Stonecore Heroic.

[Anzaman]

However, it will make dungeon finder a nightmare, as the people in there sometimes doesn't even understand english and less so their class.

People should start learning the fights (and even own class basics) instead of complaining until it's nerf'd.

[dd614]

They'll be too hard for the majority and get nerfs.

[re1gn1te]

I would have said "awesome" but it won't stick... just like cata. Casual scrubs will cry because they're to shit to do anything remotely difficult and Blizzard makes all they're changes to maximize income so they'll see the biggest chunk of income is crying and they can't have that so they'll go back to mop / tlk / nerfed cata level.

[Deleted]

When I first ran heroics in Wrath, you wanted to have a certain point of gear as a tank, you could use some CC but it wasn't necessary. Some of the bosses were a bit of a check and some of them still presented a challenge in blues and greens.

In MoP, the first heroic I did, we were all in greens and a couple blues here and there, nobody knew a single fight, and we just AoE tank/AoE damaged and 1 shot every boss without a clue what they did. Just figured it out mid-fight.

MoP launch heroics were not the same tuning as Wrath launch heroics.

Emm that is not how I remember WotLK heroics at all

Loken was the only boss that gave anyone any issues at all in my memory but hey ho.

I think its all about the rewards.

If Normals say give 50 Valor and a Cache with a 10% chance of an Epic.

And Heroics give 100 valor and a cache with a 20% chance of an Epic.

I think all will be well!

[ThunderPussy]

It'll be fun but if it's like Cata then they will get nerfed into the ground in no time.

[StrayFox]

It would work very well with pre-formed grps. However, it will make dungeon finder a nightmare, as the people in there sometimes doesn't even understand english and less so their class.

Good thing Blizzard is rewarding players for doing content in pre-formed groups.

I hope they are trying to find a middle ground. Tough content here, easy content here. Each will gear you for different things. Normal dungeons to LFR, Heroics to Normal raids, LFR to Normal Raids, Normal dungeons to Heroic Dungeons, and so forth.

[Aezral]

This is a very good thing if they want to increase the longevity of heroics. I haven't needed to do a dungeon since I was working on my C mode set, and thats a shame because I really like dungeons.

OT: I hope they do another set of armor for challenge modes, I think i remember them saying transmog weapons and other vanity junk, but I hope "other" includes armor. :3

[Slant]

If they won't be a blocker for people as they were at the start of Cata, it will be ok. 5man content deserves some challenge but then again, if we don't want raiding to die out, there needs to be smooth difficulty progression for people who are new to the game. Raiding can't keep going mostly with people who started WoW long time ago and it is the start of Cata when raiding has started to get in serious trouble when it came to filling up spots after people who quite naturally quit (even tho some guilds haven't felt that effect till MoP even)

No, there doesn't. You don't "keep raiding" alive by twisting the game into one streamlined raiding slide so everyone is funnelled into raiding automatically even if he only wanted to do pet battles. And you certainly don't improve the raiding experienced by "tricking" people into thinking raiding is easy. Raiding for some people is as difficult as building a Saturn V. Train them early, train them in dungeons. That is the main purpose, despite acquiring gear. Train them to fucking use their spells, to CC shit that overpowers them and to not stand in fire.

Do not continue the current path of teaching them that "Nuking solves everything" and "If nuking didn't help, AE nuking will solve really everything" or my favourite "While you're solving problems with nuking, standing in fire is perfectly acceptable, since you are pretty much immortal," which usually represents the whole concept of dungeon tactics these days (Challenge Modes excepted... they are more like old school BC dungeons, except too short and no need to CC, so still a tad on the too easy side).

[Berri]

I don't understand why people want the most irritating part of the gearing process - getting ready for the first raiding tier - to be any more time consuming / irritating than it already is.

[Anzaman]

I don't understand why people want the most irritating part of the gearing process - getting ready for the first raiding tier - to be any more time consuming / irritating than it already is.

Not everyone is raiding normal/heroic raids, you know.

[StrayFox]

I don't understand why people want the most irritating part of the gearing process - getting ready for the first raiding tier - to be any more time consuming / irritating than it already is.

Some people like to work hard to get things. Some people want it handed to them.

I disagree to the ladder because challenge is fun.

[Zaqwert]

They'll be too hard for the majority and get nerfs.

You're probably right, but what people fail to understand is the hardest difficult setting is SUPPOSED to be out of most people's reach.

[Deathgoose]

Heroics are there so you can farm points for real gear, I don't see why they should be hard, which means slow.

This is how I see it.

Challenge modes that downscale your gear if you want challenges.

Once you hit the first raid patch of the expac, Heroics are for farming points, not gear. Why slow that down?

[Berri]

Not everyone is raiding normal/heroic raids, you know.

That's what challenge modes are for. Difficult dungeon finder content has never worked well, and it won't this time.