"LFM Flex __ IL 540+ PST"....what?

[Nefarious Tea]

If your average ilvl is above the ilvl of flex drops, you don't actually need flex. You need to stop being bad (or find a guild with less bads) and start doing normal/heroic.

[Fullmetal89]

I think a 530 item level minimum is reasonable, while I wont judge those that want 540. Every wing but the last wing is fairly easy, so I understand wanting 540 and at least knowledge of some of the fights for the last wing. Garrosh and Paragons are a very difficult for pugs to down if they are undergeared.

[Deleted]

If your average ilvl is above the ilvl of flex drops, you don't actually need flex. You need to stop being bad (or find a guild with less bads) and start doing normal/heroic.

just because people do flex and not normal/heroic doesn't mean they are bad. and actually if someones average ilvl is above the ilvl of flex drops they can still need flex, your whole comment was stupid.

[Deleted]

If your average ilvl is above the ilvl of flex drops, you don't actually need flex. You need to stop being bad (or find a guild with less bads) and start doing normal/heroic.

God forbid someone does both.

[Monoxide]

People want to be carried. I got into a Flex Raid group today. We did the second wing. One wipe on Galakras and most of the raid group quit. It's pathetic.

I love this mentality. "They want geared people, so they must want to get carried". Pretty the opposite of what is true. The reality is, they don't want to carry OTHER people.

My Druid is sitting at 558 ilevel. The rare times I do Flex, I look for groups wanting 540+ ilevel. I want a smooth, fast, wipeless run. It's not my job to teach people mechanics, or hold their hands while they do subpar DPS. I want should and leg tier tokens, to make my 4 piece, and I want it to go as easy as possible. If you can't understand that, that's your problem, not mine.

Exceptions are, of course, made for people who have the ahead of the curve achievement, as they've already proven to know what they're doing, and they may be looking to come on an alt or whatever.

No offense to anyone, but if you're an LFR hero and thus don't have ahead of the curve, and you're below 540, stay out of my flex. There are a lot of fish in the sea, and they can be found on openraid. I'm not hurting myself by not bringing you, it's not "my loss". If you want to run Flex you have every right to do so, but you need to grow a spine and take the initiative. The people that complain about flex ilevel requirements are the ones unwilling to start their own group, allowing themselves to dictate who does and doesn't get invited, and what kind of ilevel they need to have.


It's been like this forever. People are unhappy with how OTHERS run their groups, and instead of forming one themselves, they come and cry about how unfair the other raid leaders are. It's very silly, really.

[khalltusk]

I love this mentality. "They want geared people, so they must want to get carried". Pretty the opposite of what is true. The reality is, they don't want to carry OTHER people.

My Druid is sitting at 558 ilevel. The rare times I do Flex, I look for groups wanting 540+ ilevel. I want a smooth, fast, wipeless run. It's not my job to teach people mechanics, or hold their hands while they do subpar DPS. I want should and leg tier tokens, to make my 4 piece, and I want it to go as easy as possible. If you can't understand that, that's your problem, not mine.

Exceptions are, of course, made for people who have the ahead of the curve achievement, as they've already proven to know what they're doing, and they may be looking to come on an alt or whatever.

No offense to anyone, but if you're an LFR hero and thus don't have ahead of the curve, and you're below 540, stay out of my flex. There are a lot of fish in the sea, and they can be found on openraid. I'm not hurting myself by not bringing you, it's not "my loss". If you want to run Flex you have every right to do so, but you need to grow a spine and take the initiative. The people that complain about flex ilevel requirements are the ones unwilling to start their own group, allowing themselves to dictate who does and doesn't get invited, and what kind of ilevel they need to have.


It's been like this forever. People are unhappy with how OTHERS run their groups, and instead of forming one themselves, they come and cry about how unfair the other raid leaders are. It's very silly, really.

I can see why some people are daunted at stepping up to flex pugs as some people do have requirements that are a bit high. But on the other hand anyone can make a flex run and set their own limits.

I have 0 problems with people setting up their own runs. Go for it I say, what ever limits/restrictions you put on are up to you. The time I did flex I enjoyed it. I went in with 0 idea on what tactics to expect (I went with friends ive raided for years with who have recently come back) I have done LFR a fair bit so sort of knew what to expect. For the most part it was just the same as LFR but you do need to be more alert on mechanics. Some new mechanics are brought in (like shas debuff which I knew of and we dealt with fine although for fun my off tank did not taunt off me the fucker! was on 5% and he wanted me to turn into a sha XD)

We got a few random people in and had a blast. I think in WoD if they do it with LFR - Normal - Heroic - Mythic and have all but mythic using flex tech we are in for a treat!

[Dragoncurry]

Yeah sorry I accept only 540+ as well. However, when someone psts me and goes, "Hey I'm 525, my main has experience, my alt is gemmed out/enchanted, and I know fights, if I don't perform, you can kick me," then they get an invite over 540 kids any day.

[Tychus]

Yeah, it must be so funny that people want to play the way they want to.

"LFM... no Jews, Blacks, Mexicans or women"

"WTF"

"Shut up i play how i want"

See how silly that looks? People's groups do not cater to you, get over yourself and let people group with whoever they want. God, this self-entitlement is what makes WoW so toxic.

What makes WoW so toxic is the fuck-everyone-but-me elitism and segregation, alienation and ostracization, and the nihilistic drive to destroy community in the service of self gratification. That's self-entitlement.

[Phookah]

Yes.
You do realise that it's effectively Blizzard saying "you can clear this raid with this item level", right?


Not really, as now everyone who is 510-531+ who can't get into a Flex run now has Blizzard's backing to do so.

1. Of course it can be cleared at that item level, thats what people started this patch at. I can walk to the store instead of drive too.
2. "Has blizzards backing to do so" Good thing what blizzard thinks has absolutely no bearing on what individual groups want eh?

- - - Updated - - -

"LFM... no Jews, Blacks, Mexicans or women"

"WTF"

"Shut up i play how i want"



What makes WoW so toxic is the fuck-everyone-but-me elitism and segregation, alienation and ostracization, and the nihilistic drive to destroy community in the service of self gratification. That's self-entitlement.

You instantly invalidated any point you may have by trying to make by making the stupidest comparison possible. Only wanting 540 ilevel + for flex =/= racial segregation.

[judgementofantonidas]

Blizzard could put a nice dent in this nonsense pretty quickly, by simply making flex boss statistics work off 2 parameters:

a) the number of people in the group, and

b) the average ilvl of the group.

How would that solve anything? If they increased the difficulty based on ilvl without offering a reward for putting up with being discriminated against based on putting in more effort than the next guy then all you will end up with is flex runs with NO over geared players willing to carry people because there is ZERO benefit to putting up with it.

[Phookah]

In wotlk, players in i251-i264 gear ran heroics meant for players in i187 gear. Runs were quick and easy. Then Cata hit: heroics were hard, players complained and literally millions quit playing.

"LFM flex [insert unreasonable ilvl]" will cause huge problems in WoD, when no one has gear and content is difficult again.

Gemmed, enchanted timeless gear is fine for flex, yet most of the Wow community believes overgeared equals geared.

If you'd like to get into raids at the lowest possible ilevel (I.e the ilevel intended for starting progression) may I suggest a raiding guild? You'll get what you want without having to deal with people who want a quick run instead of learning progression with a group of pugs.

[judgementofantonidas]

In wotlk, players in i251-i264 gear ran heroics meant for players in i187 gear. Runs were quick and easy. Then Cata hit: heroics were hard, players complained and literally millions quit playing.

"LFM flex [insert unreasonable ilvl]" will cause huge problems in WoD, when no one has gear and content is difficult again.

Gemmed, enchanted timeless gear is fine for flex, yet most of the Wow community believes overgeared equals geared.

inflated expectations only happen once it is reasonable to expect anyone that puts in an ounce of effort to be geared past starting level. there were no "flex looking for 560+ ilvl" groups the first week flex was available. now, many months into end game for even the most average player it is expected that you will have some gear or you pretty much exhibit no real incentive for people to invite you and slow down their run.

[Tychus]

You instantly invalidated any point you may have by trying to make by making the stupidest comparison possible.

Fallacy.

Only wanting 540 ilevel + for flex =/= racial segregation.

Such equivalency wasn't asserted.

[Deleted]

Fallacy.



Such equivalency wasn't asserted.

You just compared people who don't want to carry others to extreme racists.
Unless you're suggesting that being of different race/gender than a white male is equal to being inherently worse, that makes no sense.

[Tychus]

You just compared people who don't want to carry others to extreme racists.

No, actually, I did not. At least not in any direct or logically contingent manner.

Unless you're suggesting that being of different race/gender than a white male is equal to being inherently worse, that makes no sense.

...wat.

[Deleted]

No, actually, I did not. At least not in any direct or logically contingent manner.

I'd love to see you explain what exactly was the point of that post where you brought up racial, national, religious and gender discrimination for apparently absolutely no reason and compared it to running flex groups with the leader's own entry rules.

[Deleted]

It makes no sense to me.

Join Oqueue groups with a dps alt at.. let's say 510-535 (my alt has 537 atm, with which I'm doing oq, started at 510). People said to me, don't bother with p2/3/4 until you reach 535-540+, the groups will not work mostly. I said, I give it a try. First ID, Flex 1 clear and I thought well, my dps looks decent give it a try at p2. 10 wipes at Galakras aka 5 Groups and one ID later I cleared the part - and I was the lowest with 520. My first Malkorok kill was with 537 after 22 wipes aka 9 Groups and they disbanded at Thok, because we were only 3 ranged and every try dieing dps (melee oder range). That is the random way with oqueue.

"You don't have to use oq, where language can be a barrier. No Pugs on your server?"
Sure, those Pugs always want 540+ people - and the ones who don't searching just healer/tanks anyway. Now I'm leveling another alt on this server and will experience all that stuff again as a healer. Besides, I'm not the giving-up type, when it comes to gearing my alt - I will continue my oqueue experience until I get my cloak and theres nothing left to loot.

On the other hand, if you do flex in your guild, you don't need this high requierment - you are sitting in your voice together, know what everyone does and that's fine. Random is always a risk, so I'm not even annoyed by the high ilvl anymore - I just keep grinding my gear and one day I will have it for that pugs

[Tychus]

I'd love to see you explain what exactly was the point of that post where you brought up racial, national, religious and gender discrimination for apparently absolutely no reason and compared it to running flex groups with the leader's own entry rules.

The point of that: an illustrative demonstration of "but people play how they want" not being, itself, an unassailable Jedi hand-wave that makes someone a fine and upstanding, moral and ethical Warcraft citizen.

[Saphyron]

My shaman who never killed any normal boss is 550 and not even in full flex gear (LFR chest and a timeless ring. And not a single celestial/ordos loot).

I spot something not true. 1 timeless upgraded = 504 + 1 lfr upgrade = 536 + 1 legendary cloak = 608 + 13 pieces of flex upgraded
gives a total of 548.2 ilvl

[Ranganathan]

Why are there people looking for members with IL 540+ if the Flex runs drop 540 gear?

It makes no sense to me.
Should they ask for at least 525+? Or even 530?

Because they want to be carried, generally. Their ilvl is likely sub 510 and they want a cake walk Flex run to gear themselves up.