Arcane Mage PvE Guide

[Deleted]

-snip-

And yet the thing you're missing out is that the "optimal" 2set drops off Paragons HC, so you're still going to be running a sub-optimal 2set + WF regardless. Oh, and that's without saying that optimal head is also off Garrosh HC as well.

[ZombiexCat]

Okay so now I'm a bit confused. Posted a thread about this yesterday, and the same guy on there is giving a different answer on this thread. So... Is it more beneficial to run the 13.8k haste (or whatever it is) for LB and NT ticks and ALWAYS run mage armor, or is it better to stay at 9762, stack mastery, and switch between frost armor for LB and mage armor for NT?

[voltaa]

9762 and frost armor for single target. We aren't just going based off of bombs anymore.

[ZombiexCat]

Thanks Voltaa! You're the best, man. Your vids made me go back to arcane. Keep up the good work, and thanks again for the help!

[Deleted]

i have a question, why betters mages arc have 27.80% haste on the ask robots it is not any cap, u use a frost armor or mage armor?

[ZombiexCat]

I've noticed a lot of high end raiding arcane mages using Glyph of Arcane Power. Should I be using this if I have the 4 set? And if so, does that mean I should also use the glyph of loose mana, and macro it into my altar time/AP CD Macro?

[Zatetic]

I've noticed a lot of high end raiding arcane mages using Glyph of Arcane Power. Should I be using this if I have the 4 set? And if so, does that mean I should also use the glyph of loose mana, and macro it into my altar time/AP CD Macro?

it makes no real difference, its just easier to manage because it lines up with other cd's. It is a quality of life thing more than a dps increase.

[ZombiexCat]

Another question. On bis lists, BBoY (trinket) means I can get 4-5% more mastery than using the Toxic Totem trinket. Will this prove more useful over the course of a fight, or is Toxic Totem still the winner?

[Arold]

Toxic Totem is still the winner because there is nothing being changed in the evaluation. It's not like the stats on BBoY were just ignored or something when the trinkets were being weighed against each other.

[Delath]

I've noticed a lot of high end raiding arcane mages using Glyph of Arcane Power. Should I be using this if I have the 4 set? And if so, does that mean I should also use the glyph of loose mana, and macro it into my altar time/AP CD Macro?

The Loose mana glyph should be used since AT snapshots the buff. This way you can cast like 1-2 more AB to fish for missiles with your buffs up after AT.

[Deleted]

I've noticed a lot of high end raiding arcane mages using Glyph of Arcane Power. Should I be using this if I have the 4 set? And if so, does that mean I should also use the glyph of loose mana, and macro it into my altar time/AP CD Macro?

I used it when I was Arcane out of laziness so that I could have it macro'd with AT and not have to worry about using it any other time.

[Demindar]

9762 and frost armor for single target. We aren't just going based off of bombs anymore.

So wait, now IM confused. If were at 9762+ Haste as Arcane, we should use Frost Armor? :/

[Methusula]

So wait, now IM confused. If were at 9762+ Haste as Arcane, we should use Frost Armor? :/

It is a minor increase for SINGLE TARGET, yes. The moment there is a second target Mage Armor is better.

[Deleted]

So, I decided to try arcade for this lockout, since were now 4/12 HM, we're a casual guild, rading 2nights/week. (was frost for all SoO)

Frankly, I know arcane and I know how to handle RoP, I've been playing mage for years, but I don't know if it's because I need some kind of "experience" of arcane in SoO, but it was hectic as hell.

You're getting focused all the time and need to move, I loose a LOT of dps because of that. So I try to stay at melee range so I can AE if needed to not loose any stack, use ice Floes otherwise (because I despise the other talents), refresh bomb, anything to maximize that downtime.

Is this supposed to be that hectic ? MV and HoF weren't that bad as far as I can remember.

I could easily pull 300k+ dps on single target fights, I clearly can't as arcane right now.

Is this because you have a higher chance of getting focused, since we're only 10 man ? I'm seriously reconsidering going back to frost.

Am I missing something ? Thanks guys

[Saegno]

9762 and frost armor for single target. We aren't just going based off of bombs anymore.

Now I am running into some conflicting numbers here.
I decided to see how lowering my haste down to 9762 and using frost armor would be compared to running the 13.1K haste and mage armor.

In my current gear, raid buffed and running mage armor I have...
29601 Int
90.86% Mastery
48491 SP
25.72% Crit (paperdoll stats, not counting crit suppression)
39.38% Haste

and if I change my setup to use 9762 haste and frost armor+LB/mage armor+NT I have...(The numbers presented are using frost armor)
30571 Int
82.21% Mastery
49558 SP
28.79% Crit
38.31% Haste

So by lowering my build down to 9762 haste I end up with the following changes...
+970 Int
-8.65% Mastery
+1067 SP
+3.07% Crit
-1.07% Haste
I can change a few items to lower the Crit and raise my Haste by 830 but chose to just go off this setup for example purposes.

I can not fathom how a gain of 970 int and 3% crit outweighs the loss of that much mastery(most of which is gained via mage armor) and even haste(with the 830 the loss of haste is small but still.). If the thought is about bomb ticks, I still get +2 LB ticks and actually get +5 NT ticks compared to the +4 NT ticks of the 9762 build.

I'm not trying to discredit the 9762 build, I think it's great if you only have like 10/11/12K haste or so, but once you can reach the 13.1K breakpoint without losing mastery for it(gemming haste) I do not see any logical reason to not swap to it.
If my math is wrong or anyone has any solid reasoning why I am wrong I am open to criticism.

[Deleted]

-snip-

I think the main point to remember is that even past the 9762 point, haste is still worth more than crit (unless someone corrects me). So you would only drop your haste lower towards the break point if it meant improving your mastery. From your examples above you seem to have set 9762 as an absolute maximum amount of haste which is incorrect

[Deleted]

I'm not trying to discredit the 9762 build, I think it's great if you only have like 10/11/12K haste or so, but once you can reach the 13.1K breakpoint without losing mastery for it(gemming haste) I do not see any logical reason to not swap to it.
If my math is wrong or anyone has any solid reasoning why I am wrong I am open to criticism.

If you're gemming Haste to reach the breakpoint you're straight away losing potential Mastery, therefore it's not worth the gemming. If you could (which, in full BiS you can't, I've checked) get to the 13.1K breakpoint WITHOUT sacrificing Mastery, it would be a gain to do so, but it's not in our current gear. I think in full BiS we run something similar to 10.1K haste or thereabouts, therefore it's still better to run 9762 + Frost Armor for ST.

[Saegno]

I think the main point to remember is that even past the 9762 point, haste is still worth more than crit (unless someone corrects me). So you would only drop your haste lower towards the break point if it meant improving your mastery. From your examples above you seem to have set 9762 as an absolute maximum amount of haste which is incorrect

I mentioned in my example that I could lose 830 crit in favor of haste but even then I am losing out on a lot of mastery for basically 970 int which I don't see as a good trade off. The haste gained from the 830 basically makes my haste change a wash.

If you're gemming Haste to reach the breakpoint you're straight away losing potential Mastery, therefore it's not worth the gemming. If you could (which, in full BiS you can't, I've checked) get to the 13.1K breakpoint WITHOUT sacrificing Mastery, it would be a gain to do so, but it's not in our current gear. I think in full BiS we run something similar to 10.1K haste or thereabouts, therefore it's still better to run 9762 + Frost Armor for ST.

I'm not gemming any haste at all, from gear alone I am sitting at 13.9k haste. I mentioned that if you can hit it WITHOUT gemming haste or losing out on mastery that it should be worth it to hit the 13.1k breakpoint. In full BiS I support going for 9762 but in my current gear and in a lot of other mages current gear we are well past 9762 and, like myself, past 13.1k.

What I am suggesting is not an alternative to 9762 in BiS gear, that's a given. What I am suggesting is that for mage likes myself and others who are well over 9762 due to gearing issues that going for the 13.1K breakpoint and running mage armor full time is a stat and dps gain, so long as you do not gem haste at all.
I hope what I'm trying to convey is coming across right.

[Deleted]

-snip-

Ah, my apologies, the way your post was worded it made it sound as if you were gemming for Haste to hit the breakpoint ^_^.

If you're not gemming for Haste whatsoever and your gear allows it, by all means go for it. Not sure on the maths as, honestly, I've not done it on the breakpoint, but logic would suggest it's an overall increase.

[Andli241]

I guess I just still don't understand and have not got any definitive answer up to now as to why some people
want to sacrifice the mastery from mage armor for the sake of that extra tick from bomb.
All the extra tick does is giving you more chance for trinket proc (total bomb dmg would be the same) and perhaps giving more fractional crit chance from the extra tick of the bomb, which then would give the extra dmg from the bomb.
But, is this worth ~ 11% spell dmg increase from mage bomb mastery mana adept ()ok.. let's average it down to about 7-8% cause your mana won't be 100% at all time... sure)??
My experiment on the dolly is also inconclusive... but, often times, the mage bomb gives more dmg though (perhaps due to the RNG of the trinket, and other things as well).
Because the argument so far is that use Frost Armor with 9762 haste build so you can get through the breakpoint of the LB for that extra tick.
The other side of the argument is that you attack faster, more mana regen, and less GCD... but, then why not just use the Frost armor at all times? No matter which angle I try to slice it from... I still can't wrap my head around why Frost bomb.
Any thoughts?