should they make wow harder

[Deleted]

Even harder? No thank you, heroic (future mystic) really is sufficient in my book when it comes to difficulty. I do hope they make the dungeons a tad harder than they were this expansion but then again it is just a step on the ladder to raiding.

[Lavathing]

I've always thought the point of games is to have some sort of challenge. Now should that ruin your fun, of course not, but then again it might not be the game at fault if you decide to quit, specially when we are talking about WoW.

^Exactly this. Pretty much the only thing I find to be fun in this game is hard heroic encounters. So, using the arbitrary statement of "WoW's supposed to be fun" as a reason for why the game should be easier makes no sense. Easy =/= Fun.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Being a "hard" game has never been what WoW is about. World of Warcraft was originally successful in part due to its relative ease and accessibility at a time where MMOs were very punishing and very grueling.

I don't think they should make WoW harder. It's never been meant to fill that niche in the market- it's supposed to be one of the more accessible MMOs around, especially when you realize that the vast majority of players aren't even participating in its hardest content. Continuing to cater to the, what, 5% who are Heroic raiders isn't going to make Warcraft a more successful game, as much as those 5% might love to be focused on more. Honestly I'm surprised they focus as much on Heroic raiding as they do.

I have seen people using this "logic" for years, and I continue to be amazed how people bury their heads in the sand to the facts. Blizzard bends over backwards to cater to the casuals. You point to heroic raids as a sign they focus on the hardcore, take a look at virtually every single other aspect of the game that is catered to the casuals:

-painfully simple skill trees
-gold handed out like candy
-gear handed out like candy
-mounts handed out like candy
-titles handed out like candy
-removal of "complex" stats
-raid buffs all homogenized, require zero thought or knowledge anymore
-LFR
-instant teleports to everywhere
-legendary gear that grandma can get
-"group quests" that can be soloed blindfolded
-removal of all challenge from dungeons

To name a few. Despite these obvious casual-centric changes, and despite the steady subscriber losses, people still clamor to about how Blizzard is too hardcore focused. This game is about as hardcore as checkers at this point, you're delusional if you think otherwise.

[Facerockker]

"Hard" is very subjective when it comes to a game and player base of this magnitude. Hard could mean multiple things - it could mean something that takes a lot of time, it could mean something that's difficult to overcome because of player skill or reaction, or character progression. Then sometimes it could just mean hard, like killing a boss or beating a time faster.

Going with any of this, WoW is plenty hard. Just look at the insane amount of achievements that the game has, even just for MoP content. All of the dungeon/raid achievements also have some sort of difficulty tagged along with them, even at max level.

It's hard to distinguish leniency with ease of difficulty as with an MMO like WoW there's really no juxtaposition between the two. WoW got big because it did a lot of little things smart and well. No experience debt, no death piles, not to mention the countless QoL improvements added as the game went on. More graveyards/flight paths, everything about mounts in general, shorter Hearthstone cooldown, guild perks.

So should WoW be harder? Well, Blizzard is working on that much more this expansion. A lot of aspects from each class are being moved around or even gotten rid of completely, making the game much more dynamic and skill based. Healers are shaping up to have to be much more quick on their feet than ever before, and tanks are beginning to rely on active mitigation more and more.

Just because Blizzard makes some things arbitrary and "handholds" a lot, doesn't mean the game isn't hard sometimes. Sure, things like loot, mounts, and gold come easier now, but there's still plenty more of it that needs effort to be put into it. You'll never get the best gear in the game if you only raid with LFR. Vendor Horde and Alliance mounts aren't as flashy or unique as faction mounts, especially ones from older expansions. Some of the most prominent mounts and titles in the game definitely require a decent amount of effort to obtain.

[Icebear]

Remove any form of addons that keeps track of cooldowns, procs, raid mechanics, meters etc. and people would find the game much harder then it is today. If that is for the better is another question.

Pretty much this.
Remove all support of addons and shut down instant guides, and the game is hard again because everybody is clueless.

[Frioz]

"Hard" is very subjective when it comes to a game and player base of this magnitude.

Agree, but even as this game can be extremely subjective (it is an mmo after all, not a single player game) there is still a point where the challenge ends and the game just exists to just let you in, chew you, shit you out, and wait for the next meal (talking about new content, not old content being made redundant by new patches/updates).

[Bryntrollian]

Wow originally gained popularity because it was easier and much more accessible than any other MMO on the market and I'm pretty sure the direction of making it more accessible hasn't changed.


Blizzard attempted to up the difficulty in the beginning of cataclysm and they found that it was a terrible idea to difficulty in the most basic areas of the game. That is why they choose to do things like challenge modes and Mythic but keep LFR and Flex for accessibility.

[worstpvperus]

I have seen people using this "logic" for years, and I continue to be amazed how people bury their heads in the sand to the facts. Blizzard bends over backwards to cater to the casuals. You point to heroic raids as a sign they focus on the hardcore, take a look at virtually every single other aspect of the game that is catered to the casuals:

-painfully simple skill trees
-gold handed out like candy
-gear handed out like candy
-mounts handed out like candy
-titles handed out like candy
-removal of "complex" stats
-raid buffs all homogenized, require zero thought or knowledge anymore
-LFR
-instant teleports to everywhere
-legendary gear that grandma can get
-"group quests" that can be soloed blindfolded
-removal of all challenge from dungeons

To name a few. Despite these obvious casual-centric changes, and despite the steady subscriber losses, people still clamor to about how Blizzard is too hardcore focused. This game is about as hardcore as checkers at this point, you're delusional if you think otherwise.

He said that focusing on the hardcore made no sense because they are the 5%.... This game has never been hardcore compared to its competition are those statements not true... Checkers is harder then most mmo's honestly on a professional level.

[Osmeric]

I've always thought the point of games is to have some sort of challenge.

A common misconception.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard attempted to up the difficulty in the beginning of cataclysm and they found that it was a terrible idea to difficulty in the most basic areas of the game. That is why they choose to do things like challenge modes and Mythic but keep LFR and Flex for accessibility.

At some point they need to take the next step and realize that keeping difficulty even in those niches is a bad idea.

[Thelxi]

It's already as hard as you want it to be. There are not many hc raiders that clear everything in a reasonable amount of time every tier that complain that the game is too easy, because it isn't. The very few that do, who cares. If you want a challenge, join a better raiding guild since because you are complaining on the forums about this you are probably in a struggle guild if at all.

[Deleted]

Want hard content?

Heroic raiding, all the way to the end boss, not just farming 6-7 HC's a week.

High rating arena and RBG's.

Proving Grounds endless waves, especially on classes that scale badly.

[yetgdhfgh]

Isnt that what mythic raiding is all about?

Hell blizz has added challenge modes, Rated BGs etc and now this mythic raiding and lets not forget these new heroics where you gotta have at least silver to even access them on LFD.

The game has moved on and blizz has to cater to everyone not those who seem to have there rose tinted glasses burnt into there retinas!

[Primernova]

It doesn't need to be harder, it just needs to move back to tiered. Normals, heroics, mini-raids like ZG and Kara as catch up mechanisms and then proceed through the raids as you gear for them. Burning through all the raid content with only the LFR lockout as the obstruction is completely pointless. Without that lockout, the last boss of an expansion or major patch would die the day of release.

The way WoW works now is like buying your first car at 16 and then becoming the Formula 1 champion by the next week. It's completely artificial and silly.

And, for the, "They tried 'hard' in Cata, it didn't work!!" crowd... Cata wasn't hard, it was poorly conceived. Nerfing healing into the ground (which is happening again in WoD) and making one shot mechanics, that if ONE party member messed up, the whole group died, was a dreadfully stupid decision.

[Deleted]

painfully simple skill trees

The old system of googling "cookie cutter spec" was soooo much more challenging.

gold handed out like candy

Where? All I see is gold being given as a reward for time and effort.

gear handed out like candy

Where? Timeless Isle? Where you have to grind mobs with a lot of HP (especially vs low geareds) and hope you get a token for the right slot with the right stats? LFR where you have to invest 1-2 hours depending on the group, and then rely on RNG.

mounts handed out like candy

Where? Rare drops, achievement rewards, grinds, and more. Nothing is handed out.

titles handed out like candy

Because you only have to login to achieve Hellscreams Downfall, right?

raid buffs all homogenized, require zero thought or knowledge anymore

Lolwut? Buffing the group never required knowledge or thought.

legendary gear that grandma can get

That took the longest and most effort out of every legendary questline. Like 1.5 years to complete. Just because everyone has it doesn't change the fact it was earned.

instant teleports to everywhere

Where are these teleports that take you everywhere? I just seen ones to capital cities, or the occasional item that takes you to a specific place. Wheres my teleport to Isle of Giants?

Do you even play this game? lol

[Primernova]

Where? Timeless Isle? Where you have to grind mobs with a lot of HP (especially vs low geareds) and hope you get a token for the right slot with the right stats? LFR where you have to invest 1-2 hours depending on the group, and then rely on RNG.

You don't seem to understand what 'handed out' means.

Have you ever looked at a piece of gear since LFR, that you just flat out said to yourself, "Nope, the guild can't get there yet. I can hope we will one day though, gotta try harder!"

That was the motivation, WoW used to have. It made it fun, challenging and social, an adventure.

[Merpish]

You don't seem to understand what 'handed out' means.

Have you ever looked at a piece of gear since LFR, that you just flat out said to yourself, "Nope, the guild can't get there yet. I can hope we will one day though, gotta try harder!"

That was the motivation, WoW used to have. It made it fun, challenging and social, an adventure.

Wait...why would you want to go back to the awfulness that was vanilla progression? Guilds that started raiding very early in Vanilla were the only guilds that really progressed. If you were a later starting guild, maybe early half of '05, you weren't going to progress, you had some guilds that were only ever raiding MC, some were only ever raiding BWL etc. Players were often poached from lower guilds which totally screwed the guild that spent time attuning them and gearing them up.

Yes the myth of some bosses was cool but it was a nightmare if you were a little late to the party, Blizzard doesn't want a Naxx 40 repeat, where only a tiny percentage of their player-base gets to see the content. If you were Blizzard you would do the same thing, you wouldn't want to waste development time ( time=money) on content that's not going to be seen.

The changes that have come from all of the updating that WoW has gone through is beneficial. (for the most part)

[Deleted]

Do you mean more time consuming ?

[Herecius]

Mythic Raiding will likely be tuned to pretty brutal standards. With Blizz not having to worry about tuning heroic fights for both 10 and 25m, they can focus on purely 20m becoming that much tighter.

[Heathy]

The only hard aspects left in the game is probably PVP in its dynamics and learning to perfect the synergy with your other raid members in pve. the elements of the game that were 'hard' were more about preparation rather than challenge, very few group quests, no attunements, no resist gear collection, no buff complexity, no stat complexity.. but ppl seem to think classic was hard but it wasn't it was just time consuming.

[christehchris]

I have seen people using this "logic" for years, and I continue to be amazed how people bury their heads in the sand to the facts. Blizzard bends over backwards to cater to the casuals. You point to heroic raids as a sign they focus on the hardcore, take a look at virtually every single other aspect of the game that is catered to the casuals:

-painfully simple skill trees
-gold handed out like candy
-gear handed out like candy
-mounts handed out like candy
-titles handed out like candy
-removal of "complex" stats
-raid buffs all homogenized, require zero thought or knowledge anymore
-LFR
-instant teleports to everywhere
-legendary gear that grandma can get
-"group quests" that can be soloed blindfolded
-removal of all challenge from dungeons

To name a few. Despite these obvious casual-centric changes, and despite the steady subscriber losses, people still clamor to about how Blizzard is too hardcore focused. This game is about as hardcore as checkers at this point, you're delusional if you think otherwise.

Have you downed heroic Garrosh?

No?

I didn't think so.

You're most likely an LFR hero if you're complaining that the game is casual. The only "casual" changes are quality of life changes. The only challenge pre-wrath was how much time you had on your hands.