Did Orc fans miss the point of a non Orc Warchief?

[Colonel Sandor]

Argument in this case is synonymous with "Debate" and "Discussion," apparently you're not interested in any of the three. I'll take the latter statement as an admittance of blind fandom, where no amount of evidence will convince you to abandon your viewpoints.

Yes, blind fandom for not wanting to get into a pointless argument which none of us will come to a conclusion on. You have your opinion.

[Wildberry]

pot meet kettle.

That actually doesn't apply here. You can't lose debates over and over, while holding the same position and then accuse the guy that beats you in debates of "not wanting to change his mind." It doesn't work that way, at all.

"If you don't believe in vol'jin, believe in me who believes in vol'jin." Or something like that.

I think that sums up the defense of Vol'jin entirely.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, blind fandom for not wanting to get into a pointless argument which none of us will come to a conclusion on. You have your opinion.

Again you're basically stating "I won't be swayed by lore that contradicts my opinion."

[Traveler Voltin]

That actually doesn't apply here. You can't lose debates over and over, while holding the same position and then accuse the guy that beats you in debates of "not wanting to change his mind." It doesn't work that way, at all.

cant really lose a debate if you dont bother with debating.

[Wildberry]

cant really lose a debate if you dont bother with debating.

i quit trying to argue with you awhile ago.

The bottom statement implies that at one point you did "bother with debating." My comment still stands, nice try though.

[Bosen]

A Bloodelf leader would've been better. Maybe it's the way the Trolls talk that gets to me. I don't see them representing the Horde to all. A strong supporting role, but not the lead. Bloodelves at the forefront of a savage Army seems a lot cooler to me, and it'd give the Bloodelves lore opportunities.

[Colonel Sandor]

Again you're basically stating "I won't be swayed by lore that contradicts my opinion."

While I enjoy watching you squabble with others to get your rocks off. I'm deeply sorry I don't agree with your opinion. I first stated on this post my thought and nothing more. What you try to do humors me.

[Traveler Voltin]

The bottom statement implies that at one point you did "bother with debating." My comment still stands, nice try though.

you said over and over. i quit bothering after 1 argument about the subject.

[Colonel Sandor]

A Bloodelf leader would've been better. Maybe it's the way the Trolls talk that gets to me. I don't see them representing the Horde to all. A strong supporting role, but not the lead. Bloodelves at the forefront of a savage Army seems a lot cooler to me, and it'd give the Bloodelves lore opportunities.

While I am not a fan of anything elven in WoW, it could have been an interesting opportunity. But why do you not want to give Troll lore a new opportunity. Theirs so much that can happen with Vol'jin at the Horde's helm.

[Traveler Voltin]

While I am not a fan of anything elven in WoW, it could have been an interesting opportunity. But why do you not want to give Troll lore a new opportunity. Theirs so much that can happen with Vol'jin at the Horde's helm.

like goblins actually being paid.

[Arrashi]

like goblins actually being paid.

Fun thing about this statement is: Where will our glorious warchief vol'jin find money to pay anyone. Unless there is huge market for a huts made of mud and sticks, he may run into trouble with his finanse.

[Traveler Voltin]

Fun thing about this statement is: Where will our glorious warchief vol'jin find money to pay anyone. Unless there is huge market for a huts made of mud and sticks, he may run into trouble with his finanse.

where did garrosh get the money? where did thrall?
>_>

[Wildberry]

you said over and over. i quit bothering after 1 argument about the subject.

We've had two recent discussions actually. One in "Question to Horde - The Garrosh Problem" thread, and the "Which Orc from Draenor do you want to join Vol'jin's Horde?" thread. We've also discussed this in plenty of the "Warchief" topics following the SoO cinematic being released, and even before that. So don't even try to claim that you've quit after one argument over the subject.

And every. single. time. Every point you bring up gets countered, and you fail to defend him, all you can manage to do is move goalposts, cite anecdotes, make up lore (As seen in your comment: "Vol'jin's a master tactician." Despite no evidence of it.) compare Vol'jin to Garrosh and appeal to the crowd.

I'm simply pointing out that at this point you can't say "You won't change your mind." simply because you've proven unable to provide a legitimate argument for Vol'jin. If anything, it's the exact opposite, despite the amount of evidence you've been shown over the course of these discussions, your opinion won't change, you'll commit logical fallacies, and flat out refuse to discuss the topic while twisting the context.


If you want to like Vol'jin, that's fine, if you can't defend Vol'jin or counter any argument against him, perhaps instead of shying away from an honest discussion you should drop the very shakey defense of his character.

[Bosen]

While I am not a fan of anything elven in WoW, it could have been an interesting opportunity. But why do you not want to give Troll lore a new opportunity. Theirs so much that can happen with Vol'jin at the Horde's helm.

I feel like we've gotten a lot of Troll themed things lately. Wrath Troll lore,ZA ZG revamps , the Echo Isles revamp, Troll stuff in Pandaria,etc.

I'm tired of the Troll visual motif,and I'm also getting sick of the constant Orc obsession. I'd like Goblins and Bloodelves to get in there some more. Of those two choices, I think the Bloodelf leader makes more sense.

Maybe if Blizzard added a new dimension to the Trolls and their culture, I might get a renewed interest in them, but the jamaican voodoo mojo thing just doesn't do it for me as far as representing the Horde collective. Maybe If Voljin drank the cool-aid and got all buff like his cousins he'd seem more imposing, I don't know. He always comes accross as a good #2,to me.

[Wildberry]

Fun thing about this statement is: Where will our glorious warchief vol'jin find money to pay anyone. Unless there is huge market for a huts made of mud and sticks, he may run into trouble with his finanse.

You know what, Arrashi? Murlocs, Troll huts are slightly better than Murloc huts. So, if Vol'jin could just find some upper class Murlocs that need distinctive huts, he could beg them to start using official currency and buy Troll Huts.

The Horde's Military explo- Wait, I mean begging efforts, would be financed by Murlocs!

[Traveler Voltin]

We've had two recent discussions actually. One in "Question to Horde - The Garrosh Problem" thread, and the "Which Orc from Draenor do you want to join Vol'jin's Horde?" thread. We've also discussed this in plenty of the "Warchief" topics following the SoO cinematic being released, and even before that. So don't even try to claim that you've quit after one argument over the subject.

And every. single. time. Every point you bring up gets countered, and you fail to defend him, all you can manage to do is move goalposts, cite anecdotes, make up lore (As seen in your comment: "Vol'jin's a master tactician." Despite no evidence of it.) compare Vol'jin to Garrosh and appeal to the crowd.

I'm simply pointing out that at this point you can't say "You won't change your mind." simply because you've proven unable to provide a legitimate argument for Vol'jin. If anything, it's the exact opposite, despite the amount of evidence you've been shown over the course of these discussions, your opinion won't change, you'll commit logical fallacies, and flat out refuse to discuss the topic while twisting the context.


If you want to like Vol'jin, that's fine, if you can't defend Vol'jin or counter any argument against him, perhaps instead of shying away from an honest discussion you should drop the very shakey defense of his character.

people have been calling Vol'jin a good tactician for years even before cata. it wasnt just me.

[Mogai]

Thrall or riot

[Wildberry]

people have been calling Vol'jin a good tactician for years even before cata. it wasnt just me.

Just because a group of people says something, doesn't automatically make it true. I want proof of Vol'jin's tactical knowledge. So far I have none, on the other hand I do have a failed attempt to reclaim Trol'kalar, some failed efforts on the Echo Isles, The original loss of the Echo Isles, the failure to take the gates of Orgrimmar etc.

[Arrashi]

You know what, Arrashi? Murlocs, Troll huts are slightly better than Murloc huts. So, if Vol'jin could just find some upper class Murlocs that need distinctive huts, he could beg them to start using official currency and buy Troll Huts.

The Horde's Military explo- Wait, I mean begging efforts, would be financed by Murlocs!

Weak point of that theory is - why would murlocs need to trade, if they can take it by force ? They already shown that darkspears are no match for mighty fish master race.

[Wildberry]

Weak point of that theory is - why would murlocs need to trade, if they can take it by force ? They already shown that darkspears are no match for mighty fish master race.

That's true. I mean Zar'jira and the Naga failed, but Murlocs did kill Sen'jin, and they were killing Darkspear right and left..

Garrosh's Mongrel Horde should have come to pass, he would have legions of Troll Kryptonite awaiting his orders.

[Traveler Voltin]

Just because a group of people says something, doesn't automatically make it true. I want proof of Vol'jin's tactical knowledge. So far I have none, on the other hand I do have a failed attempt to reclaim Trol'kalar, some failed efforts on the Echo Isles, The original loss of the Echo Isles, the failure to take the gates of Orgrimmar etc.

He warned the alliance of the zandalari's plans in 4.1. he let the assault against the amani with his trolls, blood elves, and the high elves. he has one of his top Soldiers leader the assault on the gurubashi.