Brain-dead pregnant woman’s life support can be switched off, Irish court rules

[Halyon]

That's not a No True Scotsman, look it up.

Different sects of Christianity believe very different things. It is not a matter of simply saying "They're not real Christians!", they are members of a different religious group entirely.

I knoooow, I just made stupid fun, don't mind me for that one. Well, the fallacy mentioning at least, the rest was trying not to be too stupid (save roll failed).

[Miyani]

It's to show personhood isn't the entire reason you can abort a fetus.

And you cannot just abort a fetus there are rules in place, set periods of time, types/methods of abortion and options for when an abortion cannot legally be performed.

[Sunseeker]

Iv had kidney stones multiple times that's more painful than child birth does that mean my calcite stones should be given human rights since they came from me?

You clearly don't understand why kidney stones are more painful.

That's the point people keep trying to make to you. Not that you don't understand varying degrees of pain, but that you don't understand the reason that X hurts more than Y.

[Poopymonster]

Really? Compared to being chopped to pieces childbirth's a joke.

You are aware that at some point, the fetus is dead and stops feeling pain right? You could pull it out, chop it up, put it in a blender, and make smoothies, but at some point it will die before the end, stop feeling pain and be unaware of it's smoothy fate. If done properly, that point is early on and fast resulting in quick if not instant death, resulting in no pain. So yes, I'd say a quick relatively painless death over hours of labor, recovery, and such.

[Miyani]

You clearly don't understand why kidney stones are more painful.

That's the point people keep trying to make to you. Not that you don't understand varying degrees of pain, but that you don't understand the reason that X hurts more than Y.

It was merely a response to a stupid statement on pain don't think too deeply into it.

[Mormolyce]

It's to show personhood isn't the entire reason you can abort a fetus.

Begging the question as obviously most pro choice people define personhood later than the point at which they consider abortion ethical.

You've consistently dodged having to state your opinion on personhood though.

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I don't know how to reply to this without getting warned.

I'll settle for bad analogy.

I think your emotional response to the subject is making you irrational.

Hypothesis: this is the underlying cause of the entire pro-life movement.

[pateuvasiliu]

Begging the question as obviously most pro choice people define personhood later than the point at which they consider abortion ethical.

You've consistently dodged having to state your opinion on personhood though.

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I think your emotional response to the subject is making you irrational.

Hypothesis: this is the underlying cause of the entire pro-life movement.

Saying comparing kidney stones to a fetus is dumb isn't emotional.

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You've consistently dodged having to state your opinion on personhood though.

I disagree with it. Humans should have rights because they're humans. If Personhood is what defines rights then by that logic a genius should have more rights than a less than intelligent man because the genius has a more complex way of thinking.

And I don't think that's agreeable.

[Tradewind]

Coming up with bullshit scenarios about serial abortions kind of is though.

[Deleted]

Saying comparing kidney stones to a fetus is dumb isn't emotional.

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I disagree with it. Humans should have rights because they're humans. If Personhood is what defines rights then by that logic a genius should have more rights than a less than intelligent man because the genius has a more complex way of thinking.

And I don't think that's agreeable.

You're equating Personhood with ways of thinking?

Want to give an answer that isn't complete nonsense?

[Wells]

It's to show personhood isn't the entire reason you can abort a fetus.

Personhood isn't the reason at all. Its a red herring by those who can't get past bodily autonomy arguments.

[Miyani]

It's to show personhood isn't the entire reason you can abort a fetus.

Again i repeat myself The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder? I only ever see people picketing abortion clinics and never fertilization clinics that aid people having children, even though these clinics discard over half the fertilized embryos.

Why can they pick and choose just cause they don't like abortion, it seems a bit hypocritical really.

[pateuvasiliu]

Personhood isn't the reason at all. Its a red herring by those who can't get past bodily autonomy arguments.

If personhood isn't the reason then the autonomy argument can be used on fetuses.

The reason the bodily autonomy of fetuses isn't respected is that they're not considered persons.

You can't have one without the other, they go together.

[Mormolyce]

Saying comparing kidney stones to a fetus is dumb isn't emotional.

You took a reductio ad absurdum argument literally because you're overly emotional.

Very common phenomenon with social conservatives.

I mean either that or the concept of reductio ad absurdum is foreign to them.

[Wells]

If personhood isn't the reason then the autonomy argument can be used on fetuses.

No it can't. Bodily autonomy does not entitle you to the body of another. A fetus has no more right to a woman's womb than I have to the use of your kidneys.

[pateuvasiliu]

No it can't. Bodily autonomy does not entitle you to the body of another. A fetus has no more right to a woman's womb than I have to the use of your kidneys.

And why is the mother entitled to the fetus' body?

If personhood applied you'd have the right to have the fetus removed with a C section, but not to chop it to pieces. It would die of natural causes.

This isn't a clear cut issue. It's a mix of bodily autonomy and personhood.

[pateuvasiliu]

It's pretty clear cut, despite your efforts to obfuscate it.

Abortion isn't just removing the fetus. It's literally killing it by chopping it to pieces.

You have the right to remove it, but you don't have the right to chop it.

That's why personhood is involved, because absent personhood you can chop it legally.

[Deleted]

Abortion isn't just removing the fetus. It's literally killing it by chopping it to pieces.

You have the right to remove it, but you don't have the right to chop it.

That's why personhood is involved, because absent personhood you can chop it legally.

I didn't know pills could chop a fetus to pieces.

[Tradewind]

Abortion isn't just removing the fetus. It's literally killing it by chopping it to pieces.

I see you've taken it upon yourself to prove to everyone you know absolutely nothing.

[Wells]

And why is the mother entitled to the fetus' body?

She's not....the fuck are you talking about?

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Abortion isn't just removing the fetus. It's literally killing it by chopping it to pieces.

You have the right to remove it, but you don't have the right to chop it.

That's why personhood is involved, because absent personhood you can chop it legally.

So what? Let's get back to kidney thing, refusing to let me share your kidneys could kill me, that doesn't give you the right. Needing someone's body does not give you the right to it.

[pateuvasiliu]

She's not....the fuck are you talking about?

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So what? Let's get back to kidney thing, refusing to let me share your kidneys could kill me, that doesn't give you the right. Needing someone's body does not give you the right to it.

By all means, correct. But if bodily autonomy was the ONLY reason surgical abortion was legal ( and not a mix of it and personhood ) then surgical abortion would be illegal because the fetus has the right to its own body. ( assuming personhood doesn't kick in ).