Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Pantalaimon]

How to do it isn't validation to not do it.

Depending on what it would actually take to do it & just how receptive, or non receptive, it is in the long run definately makes up potential for reasons to not do it. Good decisions should be based on the thought and discussion put into the before and after's, not merely jumping in blindly because we want it so bad that we aren't going to take more than enough time to weigh it in the long run.

[Coconut]

I know that Blizzard liked him enough to have him work on all their best games and that he had a fairly prominent position in the development of WoW and left the company before WoW went from what it was to what it is. I also know that the content of that reddit post is very disputed (https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/723189529381724160). And even if it isn't complete BS, I don't really care if he wasn't a good CEO.

He left Blizzard in 2006. I'm not exactly sure what he did for the rest of the games, but the fact that he managed to get fired from a company he bought due to his recklesness doesn't give him too much credit.

[Pann]

Well, I suggest you read the link I gave you and decide who you'd trust more.

Just a tidbit from it:


He thinks Legacy servers would be viable? Yup. He'd be just the designer to get behind that.

Mark Kern may well be a terrible manager and a poor businessman but why do you think his involvement is proof that legacy servers are not viable?

[Eliseus]

Pann, it's called grasping at straws to keep arguing.

[Jeniwyn]

StarCraft, StarCraft: Brood War, Diablo II, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, World of Warcraft

These are the games he worked on at Blizzard. You might have heard of them.

[Deleted]

The second is the huge amount of negative posts aimed at blizzard and WoW within months of the launch of its latest expansion when it is trying to win back subscribers and increase its player base

By the time Legion hits this is looooong forgotten and the world is still turning....

[Deleted]

By the time Legion hits this is looooong forgotten and the world is still turning....

Pretty sure legacy servers isn't a new thing. The nostalrius thing? Probably, but it'll be forever an argument FOR the servers.

[Pantalaimon]

I think the thing is, legacy servers would be beneficial in the sense that blizzard would make money from people playing them. Of course the retort is "what if they don't stay for long"? There is only one way to find out of course, but compared to retail, the legacy servers would have a lot more content for players to do, as even the process of hitting max level is a massive journey. The real area it can help blizzard at is during content droughts - a problem blizzard has never been able to fix and from all indicators, will not be able to. Literally every expansion after BC has had year long content droughts at the end, legacy servers can help blizzard retain players by giving them something to do once they've seen the end of the expansion.

Some will be like "well don't legacy servers have content droughts since no new content is out" and while it is true that for example in vanilla, once you clear Naxx, you have in fact seen everything, it takes a massive amount of time to get to that point (I'm guessing like at least a year and a half to 2 years), so it's unlikely you'd see players on the legacy servers run out of things to do, compared to retail. Especially if they had servers for different expansions (like after you finish vanilla, you can graduate to BC).

Okay, but then once a player gets caught up to whichever expansion they started at (assuming said player(s) did not first start with Vanilla) then they're essentially playing the same old retail all over again. Take myself for one of many examples. I started in mid BC and have stayed subbed almost the entire time up to WoD so far. Sure, maybe I'd get a new experience with a Vanilla server, and a different perspective on a BC one after 'graduating from the vanilla legacy server due to not starting BC til the halfway point, but then what is the point afterward for a player like me? I've comitted a lot of time to my live characters and once I had seen all of the content in Vanilla & graduated up to later legacy servers i am just playing through the same experiences I've already done, just with characters that don't show the amount of time I've put into the game.

[Jeniwyn]

By the time Legion hits this is looooong forgotten and the world is still turning....

The "vanilla server please" community has been around "forever" and we have never been as rallied as we currently are. I'm afraid this issue will not die as easily as you might think.

It was around at the time I created this account, even though I wasn't a part of it back then.

[Eliseus]

By the time Legion hits this is looooong forgotten and the world is still turning....

The years of requesting this beg to differ.

[Ausr]

Yeah, people didn't mock the flying fiasco.. nor the lack of content in WoD - and countless other before..
Gonna blame the players, in the future, for Blizzard not introducing either of those, because some players mocked them?

Oh the amount of extremes you have to go to reach for your argument. It's cute.

[Pann]

By the time Legion hits this is looooong forgotten and the world is still turning....

Unless Legion is a dramatic improvement over WoD I highly doubt that.

[Bapestar]

I think you underestimate the resources people have now. Was vanilla harder for me, sure, because I was a horrible player. My first toon was a pally, I stacked armor and leveled as some terrible prot/ret build, with no addons and the blizz UI. Now lets say I pick up vanilla. I got to icyveins, check out dps builds and professions. DL my addons and make a UI and level. The content would be consumed much faster.

No it wouldn't. When I played on nost, I looked at vanilla guides and dl addons, and it had little effect on how fast I consumed content. I was bad in vanilla and was a clicker, came to nost a much better player, and still found the game challenging.

[Coconut]

Mark Kern may well be a terrible manager and a poor businessman but why do you think his involvement is proof that legacy servers are not viable?

Blizzard says they aren't. I myself came with some pretty logical arguments as to why, though I can't claim they are 100% correct, and they are certainly not exhaustive.

Mark Kern supports them, but he is also known for spending recklessly on pointless vanity projects and generally getting his priorities all wrong in managing his own game. It's not so much that this means anything, but that his support shouldn't make you think it's a good idea.

But the main reason I brought him up was to tell people not to be hypocrites: if they're gonna bash the WoW team for making a design mistake with the Garrison, they can't praise this guy who crashed and burned his own game just because he agrees with them.

[Eliseus]

Blizzard says they aren't. I myself came with some pretty logical arguments as to why

ROFL!!! Is that what you call it? Opinions with no support or credibility? I'll remember this for next time I argue with my brothers so I know when I'm being logical or illogical. Unless you somehow have some magical info none of us have since Nost shutting down. If so please provide.

[Coconut]

StarCraft, StarCraft: Brood War, Diablo II, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, World of Warcraft

These are the games he worked on at Blizzard. You might have heard of them.

He was a team lead for WoW... not sure what team, but that doesn't sound very high up. Just because he was there doesn't mean he made it great. You're just projecting because he agrees with you (and he would, you're pumping the game from an age when he worked on it).

[Deleted]

Blizzard says they aren't. I myself came with some pretty logical arguments as to why, though I can't claim they are 100% correct, and they are certainly not exhaustive.

Mark Kern supports them, but he is also known for spending recklessly on pointless vanity projects and generally getting his priorities all wrong in managing his own game. It's not so much that this means anything, but that his support shouldn't make you think it's a good idea.

But the main reason I brought him up was to tell people not to be hypocrites: if they're gonna bash the WoW team for making a design mistake with the Garrison, they can't praise this guy who crashed and burned his own game just because he agrees with them.

As if his past with red 5 defines him as a full nutcase? Come on. WE definitely do not praise him. His support is great and the fact that he worked on vanilla wow is greater. That's it. we do not count 100% on him.

[Coconut]

ROFL!!! Is that what you call it? Opinions with no support or credibility? I'll remember this for next time I argue with my brothers so I know when I'm being logical or illogical. Unless you somehow have some magical info none of us have since Nost shutting down. If so please provide.

I gave statistics provided by legacy supporters themselves. Conclusions were pretty evident. If you're nervous and don't have any reasonable replies, feel free to laugh them off to try and save face.

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As if his past with red 5 defines him as a full nutcase? Come on. WE definitely do not praise him. His support is great and the fact that he worked on vanilla wow is greater. That's it. we do not count 100% on him.

What I'm saying is, maybe you should cut WoW devs a slack and have some hope in Legion, if you have no problems with him.

[Darkeon]

Oh the amount of extremes you have to go to reach for your argument. It's cute.

Extremes? I simply said that the thing you described isn't something new - and in fact, changes were made after these mock videos had been released after the initial statements (the silly laugh Spanish-speaking dude meme? Yeah, that. TONS.)

I find more of a extreme to go "Well, insulting them and you won't get Legacy Servers" and expecting to be taken seriously with that argument.

[Eliseus]

As if his past with red 5 defines him as a full nutcase? Come on. WE definitely do not praise him. His support is great and the fact that he worked on vanilla wow is greater. That's it. we do not count 100% on him.

It's not even him we count on. It's the number of people who support this idea in general. He is just a middle man who happens to know the CEO of Blizzard that said he would deliver the petition to him (as if the CEO already didn't know what was going on, I'm sure he does). Maybe he also knows something we don't which may allow him to leverage this idea.

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I gave statistics provided by legacy supporters themselves. Conclusions were pretty evident. If you're nervous and don't have any reasonable replies, feel free to laugh them off to try and save face.

- - - Updated - - -



What I'm saying is, maybe you should cut WoW devs a slack and have some hope in Legion, if you have no problems with him.

We already went through this, and you were wrong. You used your poll to say it would be a failure, good job though, all you proved, again, since you apparently didn't read it the first time, was there is a demand for something, not nothing.