Will Genn Greymane be Garrosh 2.0

[Mehrunes]

There's so much wrong here it's ridiculous..
First off, Alliance and Horde are betrayed at Wrathgate by Traitors, starting the War.

Alliance lose a decorated war hero called Bolvar Fordragon, Horde lose the Top Orc of the Horde (See Dranosh for all information regarding his diplomacy with the Alliance)

And where have I disputed that part of the Wrathgate incident?

Jaina broke neutrality after the Horde basically dropped an atomic weapon on her city, and after the Horde (Garrosh's plan, but that reflects on the overall Horde) broke Neutrality by using the Sunreavers to sneak into Darnassus and take the Divine Bell. That's Garrosh breaking Dalaran's neutrality, Jaina overreacted definitely, and stopped the Blood Elves from rejoining the Alliance.

Except Theramore was never neutral, it was only pro-peace. What was neutral, was Dalaran at the time. Jaina became its leader after Theramore's destruction. And as such, became neutral. She even assured the Council she'd abide it and then told Anduin that when he visited.

The Horde can't break neutrality when they are the goddamn belligerent. Sunreavers could being a part of a neutral faction. Except the theft of the Divine Bell happens after Jaina already started personally aiding the Night Elves against the diversion Horde force besieging Darnassus. So while Sunreavers broke neutrality (well, technically there was only one Surneaver agent and Aethas being threatened into submission with the fate of his entire race after the fact, when he walked onto the scene), they did so only after Jaina. Which was the entire point.

War Crimes would also be specific to the fact Garrosh attacked a third party; the blue dragonflight and stole the Focusing Iris. The Horde was extremely lucky that any of the remaining Blue Dragons didn't go and wreck their shit in Org.

Attacking a third party isn't a war crime. It's simply a start of another war.

Orcs and Trolls are what I'd understand as talking animals as they are brutallistic, and usually more aggressive species (See the First and Second War, the Invasion of Draenor, Every Troll Patch in existence, Zul'drak, Garrosh's True Horde, Warlords of Draenor) Forsaken are literally abominations in the view of those who follow the Light (See the Humans of Stormwind, Gilneas, Ironforge Dwarves) Hell, not even the Trolls (See their whole stance with Bwonsamdi) like the Undead.

Trolls still had a world-sprawling civilization before humans were even a thing. And every Troll patch in existence? The very first one was Trolls vs Trolls, with the issue being more about Hakkar than the Trolls themselves. The 4.1 patch was also more of a preemptive strike (also led by Trolls). And those who follow the Light aren't exactly the Light. They are its followers.

The difference between the Horde retreating at Broken Shore and Jaina escaping at Hyjal is very clear. The Horde didn't alert the Alliance that it would happen, and they expected the Horde to fight long enough that they could slay Gul'dan and avert the entire Invasion. Jaina's plan with Malfurion, Tyrande, and Thrall clearly indicates if they are defeated, they'd fall back. Infact, W3 shows that they didn't even fall back, They fought to the bitter end and escaped before Archimonde confronted them. (See Warcraft 3's Night Elven Campaign)

Except it's literally the other way around. Jaina didn't inform the Horde in the slightest and instead hoped for the best. The Horde sounded a horn at the Broken Shore. And you can see the Legion spaceships that forced them to from the Alliance's position.

Horde Rebels with Horde flags are Horde in the eyes of the Alliance. Fire Night Elves with fire powers attacking Thrall is an attack from Ragnaros or Deathwing in the eyes of the Horde.

Except Varian realizing the Horde doesn't control Undercity anymore is one of the two reasons he attacked it. And just lol at this double standard. Legion-aligned undead aren't Legion-aligned undead in the eyes of the Alliance, but Ragnaros-aligned Night Elves have to be Ragnaros-aligned Night Elves in the eyes of the Horde. Because consistency.

As I stated earlier, killing a decorated War Hero and the man who regented over Stormwind is not something that is easily forgiven. The War was started not by alliance, not by horde, but by the Burning Legion AND the forsaken rebels. Still, the fault lies on Sylvanas for trusting a Dreadlord whom she basically forced into her service. And she entrusted him to not manipulate the undead who ran the Plague Project to work with him (See more on Control over Undead by Dreadlords)

The Legion wasn't party to this war. It was declared by Varian as an idiotic reaction to the actions of the Legion and Legion's followers. It's still on him. Varimathras didn't posses him and force him to utter the words he said.

The Alliance under Garithos betrayed the Blood Elves. It's like saying the Old Horde burnt the Draenei's homes down, and then when the Draenei looked for a faction, they'd join the New Horde. Beside, Don't forget that the High Elves withdrew from the Alliance of Lordaeron. I don't tolerate Racism in WoW, especially after dealing with Garrosh.

It's still the same Alliance, whereas the New Horde is specifically New. And I'm not sure how your comparison is supposed to work. The Alliance under Garithos burned the Blood Elves, this being the latest faction-burn they experienced, so when they looked for a faction they decided against the Alliance. Besides, the second betrayal was committed by the Alliance as it is now, who sent saboteurs to Quel'thalas under the guise of diplomacy. And I literally said they withdrew from the Alliance, so I'm not sure how I am forgetting that.

Also, the Forsaken are Humans. They have a claim to their city, but so do all the humans who lived and fought for that city that survived the Scourge of Lordaeron. It's not ever gonna be a co-existing society, only one of the two will survive and I don't think it'll be the Forsaken at the end of the day.

The only people having a claim in a monarchy are the relatives of the monarch. Which in this case is Calia. And those who actually fought for Lordaeron were either Garithos' people or the Scarlet Crusade. Both kinda dead. The remaining survivors are those who fled.

[InfiniteCharger]

You can't resurrect the victims of the Blight. And when it comes to relations between Stormwind and the Forsaken, so far it was the Stormwind that was the aggressor.

Blizzards treatment of undeath has been contradictory and illogical since the start. And once they introduced Forsaken as a playable race it was even more illogical. But given the theme of the game at the time it was perfectly fine seeing as Arthas and the Scourge were the big bads of the game. But that is gone. Undead are an unnatural entity created ultimately by the demonic magic of the legion. It is not a resurrection, which implies fully restored and healed with no visible damage. It is a reanimation, along the lines of a ghoul with no soul or free will of its own, as in nothing more than a reanimated corpse. With the Legion gone so should the forsaken. This little battle for Azeroth is only just prolonging the inevitable. Sylvanas does not really have the power to raise a new undead army, since all of that should have ended with the Lich King himself and really the demonic forces of the Legion. But Blizzard is going to stretch this out until they cant anymore. In reality most of the forsaken should be hoping to be released from the curse so they can die in peace, including Sylvanas. Nothing she does can change her fate or that of the forsaken. Them being around for another 1000 years contradicts the point that it is a "curse" and not a 'resurrection' or something folks would willingly want to have happen to them.

It is especially odd considering that players never really die and always get resurrected in game so if us "champions of azeroth" are damn there immortal, where are all these corpses going to come from in the first place? WOW has always been the most lenient game in terms of player death penalties and this whole idea of Sylvanas throwing hissy fits only further sets up the logical argument that the forsaken are an abomination and have to go. That is not the same as the entire Horde needs to go, but right now it is just Sylvanas pulling down everybody into her own misery along with Genn who in reality is pretty much in the same position. At some point someone is going to say these Worgen and Forsaken are abominations and unstable and need to be put down for good....

[sam86]

Blizzard is in the business of money. It's in their best interest not to piss off horde players toooo much

and that's why they favor alliance, the only comic book out is first half centered on alliance, 2nd half on medan who was scrapped from lore

[Magnagarde]

Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: The people who called this land their home in life, do so in death as well.

Said an undead high elf whose home is Quel'thalas, so what is she doing in Lordaeron?

One of the most senseless monologues lorewise that you can encounter in the game.

[Deleted]

Corrupted by an old gold, Genn "Mad Dog" Greymane will be the last boss of the expansion in Siege of Gilneas.

[Devilyaki]

maybe he will nuke some horde city

[oathy]

Said an undead high elf whose home is Quel'thalas, so what is she doing in Lordaeron?

One of the most senseless monologues lorewise that you can encounter in the game.

There is something so endearing about her though, for me it goes back to the locket scene where you see how things unfolded.
clearly cares for her people, When lots of others just see beings that should be dead.
Only my opinion but her and Thrall are two of the strongest leaders in WOW, you actually can understand almost straight away
what drives them.

again at blizzcon they spoke about the "betrayal" at the broken shore. Horde players who went through that entire scenario
if we all just stood there doing nothing, then at least it would make sense. Both sides were fighting side by side as Equal
till we were cornered on a cliff with a few thousand legion forces headed right for us.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Yes, because @mariovsgoku said all of that. What is with you people triggered by Sylvanas and your obsession with straw? Also, Sylvanas wasn't even in Gilneas when Garrosh started the war.

That's fair, in retrospect I was probably ascribing too much intent to the statement. The point was really that even if we accepted the reasoning of "She only shot Genn's son because she was trying to murder him," Sylvanas is an evil character and her actions throughout the expansions have displayed this. That's not to say that she's a bad character in terms or writing or even making some kind of value judgement about her worth to the story -- I don't dislike her as a character, I'm just saying she's done and allowed a lot of bad things.

How is that a good analogy for anything here? And how would that make Sylvanas the one who started the war?

It's an extreme analogy, granted. I probably should have used Kel'thuzad, or a less demon-y example that has more backstory. However, the point was that doing something because someone told you to doesn't mean that you can recuse yourself from all blame. Is there a nuance to the circumstance? Sure, but it's the same for a lot of villains we've killed in the past.

[Magnagarde]

There is something so endearing about her though, for me it goes back to the locket scene where you see how things unfolded.
clearly cares for her people, When lots of others just see beings that should be dead.
Only my opinion but her and Thrall are two of the strongest leaders in WOW, you actually can understand almost straight away
what drives them.

again at blizzcon they spoke about the "betrayal" at the broken shore. Horde players who went through that entire scenario
if we all just stood there doing nothing, then at least it would make sense. Both sides were fighting side by side as Equal
till we were cornered on a cliff with a few thousand legion forces headed right for us.

The point of my post was to pinpoint how senseless her character's conclusion of that monologue is.

The only time it would make sense is if Terenas said it.

[Elba]

Can you stop this dishonest squirming or paraphrasing random quotes in a moronic manner and start actually addressed what's being said?

I am. The evil races of the Horde were waging war on the Alliance. Dalaran could not stay neutral. They had to defend the innocents or be complicit. The BEls are members of the Horde and such just as guilty.

Which part of "Northwatch attacking the Barrens was the first act of faction aggression after post-WotLK truce." is beyond your comprehension, specifically?

It wasn't though. There have always been Horde NPCs fucking around in Ashenvale. Also killing Tauren is not warring. Tauren are animals, not people.

Examples or GTFO.

Plundering Ashenvale and killing druids?

Trolls forged empires while WoW's humans were still shitting in the woods. Blood Elves left the Alliance more than a decade before joining the Horde and they were actually betrayed by the Alliance twice before they joined the Horde. The Light merely hurts the undead and it can still be wielded by them.

Yeah, nice stone huts. Also nice cannibalism. Blood elves betrayed their own kin, the High elves, members of the Alliance. Yes, it hurts them, because they are abominations. And in lore they actually can't.

Doesn't change the fact she first retreated without any warning. As opposed to Horde giving warning at the Broken Shore.

She retreated to Thrall's position. And saved him. The Horde fled the entire battle like the cowards that they are.

Horde rebels aren't Horde though. And address my example.

Horde is horde. As I said, don't give a shit about your inner problems. And Fandral, even as though he already left the Alliance, was right in attacking Thrall. Orcs had been slaughtering Night elves at that point.

Again, which part of "Northwatch attacking the Barrens was the first act of faction aggression after post-WotLK truce." is too complicated for your brain? And that was just truce, which means it was only a resumption of a war started before. One that was started by Varian.

Wasn't. Ashenvale. Also the war was started the moment the first orc set his stinking foot on Azerothian soil. Varian didn't start shit.

You cannot be betrayed by someone who's not affiliated with you.

They started their betrayal by abandoning the Alliance and their High Elf kin and continued by joining with the beast races.

Good thing they are still living. And by right of conquest they forged their own kingdom with their own laws. Also, Menethil's Lordaeron was a monarchy. Random peasants have no claims in a monarchic state.

They are not living. They are corpses. Zombies. Which have no right to exist. Any human, given that they are living beings, has a claim to the land they had to abandon. Also princess Calia Menethil is still alive.

Jaina couldn't do shit to a random Blood Elf with all her might at Theramore. She wouldn't do shit against Lor'themar either.

Dunno, she had no problem slaughtering your precious Blood Elves during the Dalaran purge.



Fact: Every member of any Alliance race has the moral right to slaughter any member of any Horde race at any time for any reason.

Horde races have no right to exist. Their mere existence is an act of war. They bring nothing but ruin to Azeroth.

- - - Updated - - -

Alliance forced the Blood elves into the Horde
Sylvanas conquered the kingdoms from ARTHAS the RULER and the dreadlords
Stormwind owns fucking stormwind it has no claims to Lordaeron. Furthermore Stormwind and Gilnease did NOTHING in the entire Third War. So as for any claims to Lordaeron. Sylvanas said it best during Silverpine in Cata.

Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: I have not always been the Bansheee Queen, <name>.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: And my people have not always been the Forsaken.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Long ago this land comprised the northern kingdoms of Lordaeron, ruled by King Terenas Menethil.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Terenas had a son named Arthas.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Arthas... even saying his name makes my body quiver in rage.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: This man-child, Arthas, took for himself a cursed blade known as Frostmourne.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Through Frostmourne, Arthas killed his own father and razed this land along with every living creature in it!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: My own death came at the hands of Arthas when he and his armies sacked my homeland, Quel'Thalas, and murdered my people.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: In his vast cruelty, Arthas severed my spirit from my body and raised me as a banshee to serve in his Scourge army.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: A similar fate befell all that would die to the Scourge war machine.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: In death, they were reborn as mindless undead.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: But Arthas was not invincible! With each passing day his power wanted - his grip over the will of the damned loosening.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: It was when Arthas was at his weakest that I struck!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: And though the hour of his atonement had come, the worm managed to escape his fate, returning to the frozen wastes of Northrend.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: With Arthas gone, so too was the control he held over the undead masses of Lordaeron. After recovering my body, I freed the remaining Scourge that were left behind.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: From the cruelty and mercilessness of Arthas, the man who would be the Lich King, the Forsaken were born.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Our goal... Our sole purpose was to destroy the Lich King. We threw our lot in with the Horde and began our journey towards redemption.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Now the Lich King is dead and we have returned.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: The people who called this land their home in life, do so in death as well.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: But the Alliance does not recognize our rights. They claim this land as their own while attempting to invalidate the claims of the founders of this kingdom.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: I will never allow it... Never!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken - always and forever.

Lordaeron belongs to Calia Menethil.

Sylvanas and the rest of Forsaken have no claim to anything. They are dead. Zombies. They are abominations that must be purged. The Forsaken have no right to exist.

The Blood elves left the Alliance. They are traitors and must be purged as well.

[anaxie]

I am. The evil races of the Horde were waging war on the Alliance. Dalaran could not stay neutral. They had to defend the innocents or be complicit. The BEls are members of the Horde and such just as guilty.



It wasn't though. There have always been Horde NPCs fucking around in Ashenvale. Also killing Tauren is not warring. Tauren are animals, not people.



Plundering Ashenvale and killing druids?



Yeah, nice stone huts. Also nice cannibalism. Blood elves betrayed their own kin, the High elves, members of the Alliance. Yes, it hurts them, because they are abominations. And in lore they actually can't.



She retreated to Thrall's position. And saved him. The Horde fled the entire battle like the cowards that they are.



Horde is horde. As I said, don't give a shit about your inner problems. And Fandral, even as though he already left the Alliance, was right in attacking Thrall. Orcs had been slaughtering Night elves at that point.



Wasn't. Ashenvale. Also the war was started the moment the first orc set his stinking foot on Azerothian soil. Varian didn't start shit.



They started their betrayal by abandoning the Alliance and their High Elf kin and continued by joining with the beast races.



They are not living. They are corpses. Zombies. Which have no right to exist. Any human, given that they are living beings, has a claim to the land they had to abandon. Also princess Calia Menethil is still alive.



Dunno, she had no problem slaughtering your precious Blood Elves during the Dalaran purge.



Fact: Every member of any Alliance race has the moral right to slaughter any member of any Horde race at any time for any reason.

Horde races have no right to exist. Their mere existence is an act of war. They bring nothing but ruin to Azeroth.

- - - Updated - - -



Lordaeron belongs to Calia Menethil.

Sylvanas and the rest of Forsaken have no claim to anything. They are dead. Zombies. They are abominations that must be purged. The Forsaken have no right to exist.

The Blood elves left the Alliance. They are traitors and must be purged as well.

0/10 very low effort post bait

[Elba]

0/10 very low effort post bait

Nothing I said was wrong. Horde races aren't people.

[Shibito]

Nah, Genn is currently the only war/ruler mentor Anduin has. Anduin didn't seem so reluctant when he brought his army back.

Yea use the most useless second war guy, that walled himself off like the coward he was great role model.

- - - Updated - - -

Sylvanas is much more likely, people shit on genn because he is alliance.

And you know how fanboys are.

You are one to talk lol

[Deleted]

probably because sylvanas is getting a "she had her reasons" redemption arc and genn gets probably killed because current meta needs more female leaders (so tess can take over). and also i dont think that they make horde get another "turning bad" factionleader.. its the alliances turn and genn just got caught in the crossfire sadly.

[The Stormbringer]

He's so fluffy in the cinematic! I just want to pet him and ruffle his face. WHOSE A GOOD BOY? WHOSE A GOOD BOY?!

[Lochton]

Yea use the most useless second war guy, that walled himself off like the coward he was great role model.

Except, there wasn't really others of royal leadership to teach him.

- - - Updated - - -

Please elaborate.

Well, I have to agree with you. At the current of Sylvanas and her suddenly not minding to use her abilities more, I think she's to be a bigger threat than Genn - than and she happily throws around with the Blight canisters.

[Stormmantis]

You all are guessing at things then arguing about it as if its fact. We really do not know anything yet. Sylvanas is angry at everyone she could have started the fight, Genns angry at Sylvanas she took his town and killed his town he could have started the fight, Anduin lost his father to what is percieved at betrayal he could have started the fight. Its early days and so many whats ifs and could haves, so many questions - so instead of arguing about it just wait. Fact is though horde have always been aggressive so its not a far stretch to imagine they could have started this war and i think (though i am biased) its about time the alliance did take something back sicne the horde have just been picking away at alliance holding for some years now and we've taken nothing back.

[Shibito]

0/10 very low effort post bait

Its what he does he been racebaiting on gen OT for years now he is polluting wow forums.

[Lumineus]

Trolls forged empires while WoW's humans were still two story tall robot vikings both the Troll empires wouldn't dream of messing with on their best day

FTFY

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

At best Genn can be Garrosh 2.1, because Sylvanas is Garrosh 2.0.

Seriously, I expect we'll find they are both having their strings pulled.