Normal Antorus Boss Difficulty

[netherflame]

Garothi: easy
Felhounds: medium->hard, depending on tanks knowing how to swap bosses across the room
High Command: medium
Hasobel: easy
Eonar: easy, people just have to know what order the adds are coming from
Imonar: moderate, 1 bad apple ruins the whole bunch because or trip wires
Kin'garoth: moderate->hard, once you figure out colors (red > purple > green) its pretty easy as long as people follow the directions
Coven: medium->hard, depending on tanks knowing how to swap bosses across the room
Varimathras: hard, until tanks figured out how to swap and then very easy
Aggramar: easy-moderate
Argus: medium->hard, depending on tanks knowing how to run to a bubble with a buff

Notice all the fights that are 'hard' have to do with tanks doing something that isn't drooling on themselves. Doing it on day 1 was actually painful because people are suddenly 'tanks' just so they can get into the group.

[sosleapy]

We accidentally pulled Worldbreaker with 1 tank(dh was eating buff food as havoc for agi), and 1 tanked it easily, you can cheese the missiles to knock you back and forth in melee range.
Felhounds was a massive snore fest, barely any redeeming mechanics, the black hole orb was the only thing I had to move for.
High Command was kind of meh, not super easy, not super hard.
Hasobel was a snore fest with some running.
Eonar is a big trash pull with some pretty aesthetics, also buggy AF with the start.
Immonar was pretty good, second favourite so far.
Kin'garoth is my favourite boss thus far aesthetically, thematically, and mechanically.

Only downed Kin'garoth because of 50 minutes derping around trying to start Eonar, will update the rest after the inevitable clear tonight.

So how did you finally get Eonar to start? we tried for 20 mins said screw it and went to heroic

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Garothi: easy
Felhounds: medium->hard, depending on tanks knowing how to swap bosses across the room
High Command: medium
Hasobel: easy
Eonar: easy, people just have to know what order the adds are coming from
Imonar: moderate, 1 bad apple ruins the whole bunch because or trip wires
Kin'garoth: moderate->hard, once you figure out colors (red > purple > green) its pretty easy as long as people follow the directions
Coven: medium->hard, depending on tanks knowing how to swap bosses across the room
Varimathras: hard, until tanks figured out how to swap and then very easy
Aggramar: easy-moderate
Argus: medium->hard, depending on tanks knowing how to run to a bubble with a buff

Notice all the fights that are 'hard' have to do with tanks doing something that isn't drooling on themselves. Doing it on day 1 was actually painful because people are suddenly 'tanks' just so they can get into the group.

why would tanks swap bosses on felhounds??

[Firefall]

So how did you finally get Eonar to start? we tried for 20 mins said screw it and went to heroic

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why would tanks swap bosses on felhounds??

Yeah lol you don't need to. I've tanked both normal and heroic. I basically solo healed myself on the red one + broke my own fears because I'm a Forsaken Warrior and we don't care about fear effects. Was fun to feel like I soloed half the boss.

But my experience so far is that this is definitely a very tank reliant raid, with most mechanics on tanks and made easier the more DPS there is. So as a good tank I have had a pretty easy time of it so far and feel able to carry a lot.

[Trend]

So how did you finally get Eonar to start? we tried for 20 mins said screw it and went to heroic

There are 4 adds right outside the portal that you take to the tower defense. When you kill those adds she should show up and start talking to you but it's bugged sometimes. The "solution" we did was to disband raid, reform outside and then went back in. The second time will killed those adds she showed up correctly. Hopefully this is something they fix and I have seen a lot of people say they've had a problem with this.

[Seramore]

Oh look, it's another tier where people are complaining about the lack of difficulty of a new raid when people are stepping in from Tomb of Sargeras to Antorus with highly inflated titanforged gear from Tomb.

Yeah, the fights are less punishing but they're far more mechanically interesting. More importantly, they're also a thousand times easier when you're stepping into the raid on normal at an average item level that's above the minimum item level for drops in that difficulty, especially when you have the entire crucible unlocked.

[netherflame]

So how did you finally get Eonar to start? we tried for 20 mins said screw it and went to heroic

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why would tanks swap bosses on felhounds??

They were swapping when they got hit with the maw, I read that it isn't necessary but I wasn't about to argue with them in a pug.

[Sylvaeres]

It was very easy. Mind you it's normal and if you are coming in at 940 ilvl it should not be difficult (completed it with a fairly geared pug). I pugged the first 7 heroic bosses after with a different pug right after. I want to say the raid is overall tuned fairly low; but the target audience for normal is prob people in 915-925 gear and heroic is people is tuned for 930-940 geared players. TF and M+ gear has made even heroic trivial at this point cause gear is raining from the skies and you can get up to ilvl without ever stepping foot into a raid.

Ya we cleared our run in like 2 hours for normal, knocked out 3 heroic bosses as well, then did some 15s with smaller groups

[sosleapy]

They were swapping when they got hit with the maw, I read that it isn't necessary but I wasn't about to argue with them in a pug.

all vids i have watched dont have them swap so was just wondering.

[Trend]

Oh look, it's another tier where people are complaining about the lack of difficulty of a new raid when people are stepping in from Tomb of Sargeras to Antorus with highly inflated titanforged gear from Tomb.

I want to get some of this amazing highly inflated titanforged gear the forums keep talking about. A significantly titanforged piece drops here and there for our raid, resulting is probably a 5 ilvl increase per player. And 5 ilvl when you're 940+ anyway is a pretty small percentage so clearly we're doing something wrong.

Anyway, in reality I think it has to do with going from mythic tier N to normal (which is what this thread is about) tier N + 1. Of course it's going to be a roflstomp; working as intended. With or without titanforging, that is simply the way it's going to be. If normal was any kind of challenge for more serious raiders, the intended audience would never get through it.

[netherflame]

all vids i have watched dont have them swap so was just wondering.

TBH they were straight up potatos, I never saw their mitigation cooldowns used. They were getting absolutely crushed from not having mitigation up then bitch at us healers for not keeping them alive.

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I want to get some of this amazing highly inflated titanforged gear the forums keep talking about. A significantly titanforged piece drops here and there for our raid, resulting is probably a 5 ilvl increase per player. And 5 ilvl when you're 940+ anyway is a pretty small percentage so clearly we're doing something wrong.

Anyway, in reality I think it has to do with going from mythic tier N to normal (which is what this thread is about) tier N + 1. Of course it's going to be a roflstomp; working as intended. With or without titanforging, that is simply the way it's going to be. If normal was any kind of challenge for more serious raiders, the intended audience would never get through it.

Friend of mine got a 970 tier set legs from normal, titanforging is a fun and interesting mechanic.

[Polarthief]

Did normal with a couple of different pug groups, geared between 925-940+.

Yeah it's very undertuned for people who overgear the content, fancy that.

My guild had about the same experience. We're a 7/9M (ToS) guild though we did carry a handful of people to gear them up. Still, it was a total joke because it drops gear equivalent to Mythic ToS but at a third of the difficulty. Very forgiving on most fights. It's intended to be a step up from LFR but still incredibly easy that anyone can pug it.

Hoping Heroic tonight will be more stimulating at least.

Friend of mine got a 970 tier set legs from normal, titanforging is a fun and interesting mechanic.

Getting better than Mythic gear in content that's easily puggable by a pack of randos sure is fun, especially when the lead developer of the game wants to keep it "for the memes".

[Rhall]

My group full cleared Normal last night. Has 1 wipe on Varimathras. We're a pretty casual guild who was only 5/9 Mythic on the previous tier. I guess We'll see what Heroic holds later this week.

Honestly the bosses melted so fast I have little to no idea what any of the mechanics are. We had no real preparation for the raid. No vids. Read the dungeon journal between bosses and prayed DBM told us what to do.

[Veshx]

High command was pretty difficult on heroic with 27 becuse there's a huge amount of mines and they have over 10b hp. We 4 shot it, but still.

Designate people to run over a couple of bombs every so often. Makes moving around and P3 much easier. Or get someone better to clear the mines with the pod.

[Trend]

Friend of mine got a 970 tier set legs from normal, titanforging is a fun and interesting mechanic.

And what is your point? If you're talking about Antorus, that is +40 on that one piece, which is ~ +3 ilvl on his character, which is about a +0.3% increase on his ilvl if he's around 940. Neat, pretty much exactly what I said: very little impact even when you use your one super lucky friend as an example.

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Getting better than Mythic gear in content that's easily puggable by a pack of randos sure is fun, especially when the lead developer of the game wants to keep it "for the memes".

See above. I understand why it tweaks people, but when you do the math, titanforged pieces here and there don't actually make nearly as much difference as people want to think.

[netherflame]

And what is your point? If you're talking about Antorus, that is +40 on that one piece, which is ~ +3 ilvl on his character, which is about a +0.3% increase on his ilvl if he's around 940. Neat, pretty much exactly what I said: very little impact even when you use your one super lucky friend as an example.

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See above. I understand why it tweaks people, but when you do the math, titanforged pieces here and there don't actually make nearly as much difference as people want to think.

970 is Mythic Argus gear level, titanforging is immensely stupid because its uncapped. How would you feel if the person who sits next to you at work and does the same job randomly got paid twice as much one pay check? I can't imagine anyone would be ok with it.

[Trend]

970 is Mythic Argus gear level, titanforging is immensely stupid because its uncapped. How would you feel if the person who sits next to you at work and does the same job randomly got paid twice as much one pay check? I can't imagine anyone would be ok with it.

a) you don't address anything I said

b) work is not a game so that's a very poor comparison

P.S. If I was in Ion's position, I would not take the same line on titanforging. My point is that the claim around this huge titanforging inflation (talking about whole raids of people here) is false. When you do the math, the percentages are small.

[Video Games]

Designate people to run over a couple of bombs every so often. Makes moving around and P3 much easier. Or get someone better to clear the mines with the pod.

I just think it was 27 people making it a giant clusterfug. Probably would have 1 shot it with 15

[xcitng]

All of it was extremely easy, wiped on val because of the tank thing because they apparently can't read, felt the lag from a bigger raid size was harder

[netherflame]

a) you don't address anything I said

b) work is not a game so that's a very poor comparison

P.S. If I was in Ion's position, I would not take the same line on titanforging. My point is that the claim around this huge titanforging inflation (talking about whole raids of people here) is false. When you do the math, the percentages are small.

a) he killed 1 boss, 1 time on the easiest mode and got the a drop that he is very unlikely to replace for at least 3 months while doing harder modes. He will be putting in at least 2x the effort on heroic, if we based it purely off pulls, and then at least 50x the effort for it on mythic. After all of that it would still have to stat roll 6 consecutive times on heroic to get something equal and then 2 on mythic mode.

b) randomness, its not about being a game or not a game its about that it doesn't feel good watching someone do the same thing as you with the same level of effort and getting to the same conclusion only to be rewarded with something 9x better then what you get.
Titanforging would be fine if it worked like this.
1) Caps at the base item level of the difficulty above what you are doing, mythic would be a +15 of base.
2) We could take two items of the same item level or difficulty tier and forge them together to get 1 item back at +5 item levels.
ex; Put two 930 legs into the forge and you get a a pair of 935 legs back.
or put two of the same item and same tier legs into the forge and get +5 of the highest iLvl back.
935 normal legs and 930 normal legs and give you back 940 normal legs.

[SupBrah]

Normal was a complete and utter faceroll. Doing heroic tonight.