So Alleria will be at war against Silvermoon and her sister ?

[Combatbutler]

Those are incomparable to the examples I've given, which have a very clear parallel. In both the Second War and BfA, Quel'thalas' territory and Silvermoon is endangered directly by an adversary, whereas the dangers of MoP, WoD and Legion happened entire seas and continents away for Quel'thalas.

I specifically addressed the fact how they're nowhere to be seen as their allies are fighting enemies which will innevitably reach Quel'thalas at some point, which is when they'll - as usual - start acting the way they should and pull their weight.

Which is simply wrong the elves have been pulling their weight for several xpacks now, being involved with their faction, even endangering themselves with the assault on Theramore for example. They were well aware that they would most likely be among the most vulnerable towards an alliance counterattack and they still went through with it.

[Magnagarde]

Which is simply wrong the elves have been pulling their weight for several xpacks now, being involved with their faction, even endangering themselves with the assault on Theramore for example.

Once again, I'm talking about direct territorial endangerment of Quel'thalas when a war between the Alliance and the Horde is taking place. So far, the cinematic shows us that the blood elves have the same attitude towards it as they've had during the Second War.

Not saying they didn't help or assist the Horde elsewhere. I'm saying they're pulling a Second War scenario on the Horde within the timeframe of the BfA Lordaeron cinematic.

[Combatbutler]

Once again, I'm talking about direct territorial endangerment of Quel'thalas when a war between the Alliance and the Horde is taking place. So far, the cinematic shows us that the blood elves have the same attitude towards it as they've had during the Second War.

There was a direct possible threat of retaliation for theramore. The rest of the horde was an ocean away, Quel'thalas and Lordaeron on the other hand were easily in striking range and they still went through with it.

[Magnagarde]

There was a direct possible threat of retaliation for theramore. The rest of the horde was an ocean away, Quel'thalas and Lordaeron on the other hand were easily in striking range and they still went through with it.

Which is once again incomparable to the parallel that BfA makes with the Second War, which is the only thing I ever brought up.

Alliance at the borders of current Quel'thalas and the Horde at the borders of the Second War Quel'thalas, combined with the visible absence of blood elves, have a striking similarity with eachother, whereas Theramore doesn't have as many parallels to be drawn.

[Combatbutler]

Which is once again incomparable to the parallel that BfA makes with the Second War, which is the only thing I ever brought up.

Alliance at the borders of current Quel'thalas and the Horde at the borders of the Second War Quel'thalas, combined with the visible absence of blood elves, have a striking similarity with eachother, whereas Theramore doesn't have as many parallels to be drawn.

How is that not comparable risking you entire kingdom to be attacked by a combined alliance army, one of similar size standing in front of undercity in bfa. Not to mention the Alliance won't be border to border with Quel'thalas in Bfa, the argent crusade are its direct neighbours.

[Irian]

You can have pride in your people but hate their leaders and be forced into war with some of them. It happens in the real world all the time, civil wars happen in all sorts of civilizations.

If Alleria sees her people as a desperate group under the brainwashing rule of an evil banshee queen then she'll likely feel as if the ends justify the means. Nobody's saying "genocide" when they talk about war; that's not the end objective of either the Alliance or the Horde. They simply want to break the other faction.

[Eapoe]

The problem is that even without getting into the debate about whether Alerria would join Alli or not, lore wise for the Alliance they would never let a race join them that is infused with the Void. A threat that the Alliance abhors. Come on.
Going to Alleria herself, it also makes no sense to join the Alliance. Even with being gone for 1,000 years, she still know she the Alli betrayed her people on multiple ocassions. Knowing that, why would she trust them now? Even though there is Turalyon, you would think they would have remained Neutral, and her VE trainees (or whatever) would just be random, scattered NPCs.

[Deleted]

The problem is that even without getting into the debate about whether Alerria would join Alli or not, lore wise for the Alliance they would never let a race join them that is infused with the Void. A threat that the Alliance abhors. Come on.
Going to Alleria herself, it also makes no sense to join the Alliance. Even with being gone for 1,000 years, she still know she the Alli betrayed her people on multiple ocassions. Knowing that, why would she trust them now? Even though there is Turalyon, you would think they would have remained Neutral, and her VE trainees (or whatever) would just be random, scattered NPCs.

Aren't the majority of the "Alli that betrayed her people" on the Horde side now? Weren't they formerly Lordaeron citizens that take pride in being The Forsaken now? Plus the Horde has Orcs and Trolls, that have attacked and killed many of her fellow Quel'thalasians, so she kinda has a legit reason to hate them.

Plus the Blood Elves pulled out of the Alliance(not the other way around) a while before the Scourge story arc.
Doesn't that make Alleria the only Elf of the lot, who's actions do make sense?

[Eapoe]

Aren't the majority of the "Alli that betrayed her people" on the Horde side now? Weren't they formerly Lordaeron citizens that take pride in being The Forsaken now? Plus the Horde has Orcs and Trolls, that have attacked and killed many of her fellow Quel'thalasians, so she kinda has a legit reason to hate them.

Plus the Blood Elves pulled out of the Alliance(not the other way around) a while before the Scourge story arc.
Doesn't that make Alleria the only Elf of the lot, who's actions do make sense?

No, as Arthas betrayed them before he went crazy. They were also abandoned by the Alliance a 2nd time as a whole, left on their own against a threat that they were helping the Alliance face.
The BE's were formed as a tribute to the fallen HE's. They did not pull out of the Alliance as the Alliance had already abandoned them. They joined the Horde to keep their peoplealive out of necessity, much as the Tauren (except the Tauren did it for honor as they were saved by the Horde from being wiped out).

As to my first point, the Alliance would never accept VE's in the first place based on their lore.

[Deleted]

No, as Arthas betrayed them before he went crazy. They were also abandoned by the Alliance a 2nd time as a whole, left on their own against a threat that they were helping the Alliance face.
The BE's were formed as a tribute to the fallen HE's. They did not pull out of the Alliance as the Alliance had already abandoned them. They joined the Horde to keep their peoplealive out of necessity, much as the Tauren (except the Tauren did it for honor as they were saved by the Horde from being wiped out).

As to my first point, the Alliance would never accept VE's in the first place based on their lore.

Anasterian withdrew Quel'thalas from the Alliance long before the Scourge was a thing. Also, Arthas, Garithos and all the other people "betraying them", were Lordaeronians, which now go by the name The Forsaken. Also, the Elves had fought wars with the Trolls and Orcs spanning across 3000 years.

It makes zero sense joining the Horde, which is filled with enemies of theirs, that killed thousands of their kin. For what reason? To spite the Humans of Stormwind, who had next to nothing to do with any of this? Or the Dwarves? Or the Gnomes?

[Kallisto]

Aren't the majority of the "Alli that betrayed her people" on the Horde side now? Weren't they formerly Lordaeron citizens that take pride in being The Forsaken now? Plus the Horde has Orcs and Trolls, that have attacked and killed many of her fellow Quel'thalasians, so she kinda has a legit reason to hate them.

Plus the Blood Elves pulled out of the Alliance(not the other way around) a while before the Scourge story arc.
Doesn't that make Alleria the only Elf of the lot, who's actions do make sense?

The ally that betrayed her kingdom are still mostly alliance. Humans are still there as the leaders and explicitly or implicitly supported Garithos actions through their own inaction. BC start zone Dwarf ambassador who was meant to be there to get the blood elves into the alliance (Blood elves first choice) was actually leading a night elf forward squad that were stabotaging the Blood elf sanctums. The things that were most responsible for keeping the scourge at bay. Without which the Blood elves would lose the war of attrition.

Then for most of the Eversong quest chain they are on their own until you get the quest to enter the Ghostlands where you see the first forsaken who gets you to help the injured runner. Then you see more forsaken at Tranquillen who are there for no other reason than because Sylvanas wanted to help her people. That's why Belves are horde, why Alleria (who in her book renounced all hate for the horde) shouldn't be all bitchy at the horde when she's a Thalassian nationalist and also why as a Thalassian nationalist she shouldn't be fawning over the alliance and humanity like they're all her closet friends. When her closest friends are standing in the Silvermoon throne room.

[Aquamonkey]

Arthas, Garithos and all the other people "betraying them", were Lordaeronians, which now go by the name The Forsaken.

Different Lordaeronians. Garithos' band were not the group of Scourge that split into the Forsaken. Besides, Garithos had the backing of the Alliance nations.

[Shakou]

Of course they do it out of selfish reasons, everybody does. Or do you want to tell me Gilneans actually care about the Alliance, or the dark iron dwarves, the average night elf, or the average human, they don't even care about their own people starving.

Both Alliance and horde are basically organizations like nato.

OMG this guy get's it.

At least one other person here actually gets it. The rest of you? I dunno, but some of you actually have no idea at all why these type of things happen irl at all.

[Doffen]

Besides, Garithos had the backing of the Alliance nations.

Where does it say that? I've read he didn't, but who knows if its canon. Would like to read(not that I dont believe you)

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BC start zone Dwarf ambassador who was meant to be there to get the blood elves into the alliance (Blood elves first choice) was actually leading a night elf forward squad that were stabotaging the Blood elf sanctums.

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=9311/blood-elf-spy

Blizz imagination on belf going Horde

[Aquamonkey]

Where does it say that? I've read he didn't, but who knows if its canon. Would like to read(not that I dont believe you)

Garithos had support from Lordaeron's remnants, Dalaran, Wildhammer, and Ironforge as well as Quel'Thalas (before he betrayed them). You see this in the WC3 missions. Also:

Despite the ad-hoc nature of his forces, other states recognized him as potentially the last remnant of Lordaeron's government and certainly the strongest warlord in the area. As such, officials from neighboring non-human states such as Ironforge and Quel'Thalas sent him aid, ignorant of his intolerant policies. (AskCDev2)

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http://www.wowhead.com/quest=9311/blood-elf-spy

Blizz imagination on belf going Horde

Different BElves. Those were Sunfury, BElves that went with Kael'thas to Outland. They were separate from the BElves in Quel'Thalas.

[Doffen]

Garithos had support from Lordaeron's remnants, Dalaran, Wildhammer, and Ironforge as well as Quel'Thalas (before he betrayed them). You see this in the WC3 missions. Also:

Despite the ad-hoc nature of his forces, other states recognized him as potentially the last remnant of Lordaeron's government and certainly the strongest warlord in the area. As such, officials from neighboring non-human states such as Ironforge and Quel'Thalas sent him aid, ignorant of his intolerant policies. (AskCDev2)

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Different BElves. Those were Sunfury, BElves that went with Kael'thas to Outland. They were separate from the BElves in Quel'Thalas.

Okey. Thanks. What I've read is that SW and Theramore didn't approve of his "regime" after they knew what happened though. I'll see if I can find it.

For the Alliance they were just as much Blood Elves as the other Blood Elves. Its a connection.

[Aquamonkey]

For the Alliance they were just as much Blood Elves as the other Blood Elves. Its a connection.

There's no indication as to which event happened first. Might as well say they happened concurrently. There is no mention of the Sunfury being influential in the Alliance's attitude towards Quel'Thalas, only that the NElves trashtalked them.

Later, during the Third War, the Alliance extended membership to the night elves, who saw it as their duty to warn their new allies against the high elves. The Highborne's part in bringing about the War of the Ancients figured heavily in the night elves' retelling of elven history. It should come as no surprise that humans came to regard the high elves (and, by association, the blood elves) with resentment and suspicion.
[...]
Certainly the Alliance has shown no interest in helping the Azerothian blood elves either reach Outland or drive the Scourge out of Quel'Thalas. Already suspicious of the few scattered high elves who still exist, the Alliance considers the blood elves even less trustworthy. Night elves are particularly hostile toward blood elves: to night elves, the sin'dorei stink of desperation and arcane magic. (WC Encyclopedia)

Quel'Thalas was trying to entreaty with the Alliance, they didn't want anything to do with the Horde until it became apparent that was their only option.

[Doffen]

There's no indication as to which event happened first. Might as well say they happened concurrently. There is no mention of the Sunfury being influential in the Alliance's attitude towards Quel'Thalas, only that the NElves trashtalked them.

Later, during the Third War, the Alliance extended membership to the night elves, who saw it as their duty to warn their new allies against the high elves. The Highborne's part in bringing about the War of the Ancients figured heavily in the night elves' retelling of elven history. It should come as no surprise that humans came to regard the high elves (and, by association, the blood elves) with resentment and suspicion.
[...]
Certainly the Alliance has shown no interest in helping the Azerothian blood elves either reach Outland or drive the Scourge out of Quel'Thalas. Already suspicious of the few scattered high elves who still exist, the Alliance considers the blood elves even less trustworthy. Night elves are particularly hostile toward blood elves: to night elves, the sin'dorei stink of desperation and arcane magic. (WC Encyclopedia)

Quel'Thalas was trying to entreaty with the Alliance, they didn't want anything to do with the Horde until it became apparent that was their only option.

No but the Alliance might have seen blood elves as blood elves, and didn't see or even ignore the difference. Doesn't say anything about that. Because before they went to Outland everyone didn't really know what Kael was up to thus any blood elf being the same group for the Alliance.

[Aquamonkey]

No but the Alliance might have seen blood elves as blood elves, and didn't see or even ignore the difference. Doesn't say anything about that. Because before they went to Outland everyone didn't really know what Kael was up to thus any blood elf being the same group for the Alliance.

Again, that was not mentioned at all in why the Alliance distrusted the BElves. It was racism, not a direct result of hostile BElf actions. The Sunfury came with/followed the Draenei from Outland. Those events happened before they joined the Alliance.

[Doffen]

Again, that was not mentioned at all in why the Alliance distrusted the BElves. It was racism, not a direct result of hostile BElf actions. The Sunfury came with/followed the Draenei from Outland. Those events happened before they joined the Alliance.

They literally joined the Alliance just as fast as the Blood Elves joined the Horde after those quests.

To the Draenei and the Alliance the Blood Elves were seen as an enemy after those quests on Bloodmyst Isle. They didn't know that Kael'thas had betrayed the Belves at that time so they could easily seen the Blood Elves as an enemy then. Its all connected to the transition of Belves being alone to joining the Horde, as well as Draenei joining Alliance.