Vanilla stats too complicated for retailers

[Xar226]

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers.

I'm beginning to see why vanilla snobs need their own servers to be sequestered into. The arrogance is palpable.

[MayhemPenguin]

I'm beginning to see why vanilla snobs need their own servers to be sequestered into. The arrogance is palpable.

The funny part is A) He probably still plays and looks up builds online(aka a 'brain dead' player), or B) doesn't play and has no idea wtf he is talking about.
Either way I agree, Vanilla snobs are complete douches and the normal ones wonder why people playing live hate vanilla players so much
Like we all play WoW just cause you liked it when it was crap doesn't make you less of a person, you acting like your crap doesn't smell does.

[Bisso]

retailers.... Can you get any more cancerous?

Do you mean paying customers? As if you are a vanilla player, you are playing WoW for free through illegitimate means.

Maybe you stop categorizing legit players and categorize yourself as a thief.

Also I've played every versions of the game since beta. Vanilla isn't special or any harder than say WoTLK when talking about stats, get off your high horse.

[Sliske]

Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?

I love when people loudly proclaim this kind of bullshit, when anyone that actually played vanilla knows exactly how wrong this actually is.

Lemme explain to you just how easy it was as a tank to determine stats.

Step 1. Look at your parry , dodge and block chance
Step 2. Look at your defense
Step 3. Add all of these totals up
Step 4. Add on the base miss chance (i believe it was 5%)

If they add up to 103%, you are done. Everything after that is just extra fluff, like crit capping on a holy paladin.

As for resistances - dude, they had a bloody % counter in game for that. You just stacked the shit out of it. It was extremely simple. The more of it you had, the better.

You picked the worst example for stats. Tanks had the easiest fucking time ever deciding what gear to use. A dps on the other hand? Well thats just as bad as it currently is. Like do you go for weapon speed or attack power as a rogue? Well how is that any different to simming your character to find out whether you want to go haste or versatility? The one difference is that in vanilla you didn't have simcraft, so unless you knew a math whizz who could reverse engineer the formulas and then tell you straight up, you were left to test it by yourself.

Does this make the stats themselves complicated? Of course not, thats backwards thinking. Comparative to saying opening a tin of beans is complicated. It isn't if you have the tools, its tedious and annoying if you don't.

So yeah, your entire premise is wrong to begin with - additionally you show a fundamental lack of knowledge when it comes to vanilla stats, by listing weapon skill and block value as something people actually cared about. You also are wrong on this:

You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Lemme explain this to you, too.

Imagine if right now in Legion, every single item in the game was equippable by every single spec. Do you think people would just equip the highest ilvl item? Would you see priests running around in strength plate? Of course not, only noobs would and this was the same thing in vanilla. We had many different stats in vanilla that were useless to some classes but excellent to others, but they were all thrown onto the same item. This is why for example holy paladins barely even used full plate until BWL, they used leather instead.

It was extremely easy for any holy paladin to see what gear was an upgrade or not. Heres a good example:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=18490

this item is insane for holy paladins pre raid, but the second you get into raiding this will be your new helmet

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16854

Why? because you're a holy paladin and you know what your stats do, because you took 30 seconds out of your day to ask someone better than you, like everyone competent did in vanilla. You know that its crit (from the int and the 5 set) and a high mana pool you want, not necessarily a ton of healing power.

So yeah, bit of a sperg out, but it triggers the fuck out of me when people that have never played vanilla try to be hipster cunts when they don't have a clue what they're talking about. I can't wait for the day, OP, when Classic releases and you get super fucking depressed after logging in realising you have to read your quest log to find out where to go and that your map looks like it was drawn by a 2 year old with down syndrome.

I wish I could follow you on this site just for your inevitable "WTF VANILLA SUCKS" post.

[Holofernes]

omg you should watch into stats and talent trees of diablo 2, probably u need a psychologist and a 5 year sabbatical to deal with the emotional stress from looking at those.

[Queen of Hamsters]

From most of the responses, its clear that the stats in vanilla are too complicated for retailers. Retail is totally based on item level and average item level of your character if the retailers didnt even understand that vanilla stats are may too complicated and retailers will totally screw up there character in vanilla. The only way to screw you character on retail is to not go with the items with the highest level but even as obvious as that is retailers can still screw this up.

And just like that, it's clear that you're baiting furiously.

Such lack of confidence in your game iteration.

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Vanilla Stats were good, meant something, now its braindead level.

Oh yes, that must be why people are min-maxing, simming and optimizing gear to hell and the old concept of "higher ilvl = better" has gone out the window. I've got 3 different sets, simmed and stat weighted, for 1 spec in my bags, all of which have different strengths vs different bosses and has to be switched out with talents regularly for optimization. The fuck you smoking thinking stats "don't matter" these days...

Vanilla stats meant exactly the same thing that stats always mean in this game. It is objectively easier to gear a character in Classic though, considering the locked ilvls/stats on items, even if less pieces drop.

[Triks]

And just like that, it's clear that you're baiting furiously.

Such lack of confidence in your game iteration.

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Oh yes, that must be why people are min-maxing, simming and optimizing gear to hell and the old concept of "higher ilvl = better" has gone out the window. I've got 3 different sets, simmed and stat weighted, for 1 spec in my bags, all of which have different strengths vs different bosses and has to be switched out with talents regularly for optimization. The fuck you smoking thinking stats "don't matter" these days...

Vanilla stats meant exactly the same thing that stats always mean in this game. It is objectively easier to gear a character in Classic though, considering the locked ilvls/stats on items, even if less pieces drop.

Lol .

[sweboy99]

We had "Wrath babies" and now "Retailers"...
Jesus christ, just play the game?
I dare to guess that a lot of "Retailers" (how can you call them that? It's the only thing to play currently and legally) started in Classic WoW, and they know exactly how it was then. How about you getting off your high horse, and stop pretending you're the god sent "Vanilla player" trying to teach everyone "how darn difficult it was"?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Lol .

It is though, speaking from experience here.
The biggest hurdle is RNG, the stats however are predictable and so is the source.

[Wiedzemir]

We had "Wrath babies" and now "Retailers"...
Jesus christ, just play the game?

That's exactly what I want. Yet people here constantly tell me how regressive I am for wanting to play the game and how the game should be changed to "adhere to modern standards".

[Triks]

It is though, speaking from experience here.
The biggest hurdle is RNG, the stats however are predictable and so is the source.

It's one of the things but not the biggest.

You can't que for dungeons and you don't get gear currency. If a dungeon in current WoW takes 15 min to complete and 30 to que, in Vanilla you have 20 min spamming in the city, 15 min flying to the instance, 5 min getting there and 60 min to complete the dungeon itself. In other words, in current WoW I can do 2 dungeons for every 1 dungeon I do in classic plus the fact that I get some sort of currency.

Bosses in raids drop 3 items on average distributed around 40 people. Bosses nowadays drop 5 items distributed around 20 people plus they give you gear currency. Current WoW practically throws gear at you just from dungeons alone which is both a good and bad thing. As you said yourself - you have 3 min-maxed sets in your backpack. In Vanilla even having 1 is a major achievement due to how stingy the game is.

[Sunlighthell]

The only stats I really miss from Vanilla/Bc are spell damage/healing. Removing them was stupid in the first place.

[redwolfrain]

Vanilla will be easier than ever, unlike when it was new and people were clueless. There will be BIS lists and much more information floating around to make it accessible.

[Deleted]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hold on..
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Vanilla stats were never difficult. Poorly itemised so a bit more effort, sure. But never difficult. You could tell with relative ease if something was better for you.

Also, is "retailers" now the official term for people playing live servers? What do we call those that currently play on private servers, "thieves"?

I know right?!
Good thing we "retailers" are paying our subscriptions, so the "too cool for live" can jump in and claim their title once classic servers are live.

Cause signing petitions > providing money to the actual company XD

[Queen of Hamsters]

It's one of the things but not the biggest.

You can't que for dungeons and you don't get gear currency. If a dungeon in current WoW takes 15 min to complete and 30 to que, in Vanilla you have 20 min spamming in the city, 15 min flying to the instance, 5 min getting there and 60 min to complete the dungeon itself. In other words, in current WoW I can do 2 dungeons for every 1 dungeon I do in classic plus the fact that I get some sort of currency.

Bosses in raids drop 3 items on average distributed around 40 people. Bosses nowadays drop 5 items distributed around 20 people plus they give you gear currency. Current WoW practically throws gear at you just from dungeons alone which is both a good and bad thing. As you said yourself - you have 3 min-maxed sets in your backpack. In Vanilla even having 1 is a major achievement due to how stingy the game is.

3 min-maxed sets, countless pieces have passed and been discarded due to not being good enough, even when ilvl has been higher.
In Classic, I know the pieces and if they drop, I equip them. Done and dusted, nothing more to it. It's slow to obtain said pieces, which is why it's more efficient to find like-minded people and pug as few as possible. Slow but steady.

[Triks]

3 min-maxed sets, countless pieces have passed and been discarded due to not being good enough, even when ilvl has been higher.
In Classic, I know the pieces and if they drop, I equip them. Done and dusted, nothing more to it. It's slow to obtain said pieces, which is why it's more efficient to find like-minded people and pug as few as possible. Slow but steady.

That's the problem I have with the current WoW - gear is practically worthless, considering how quickly you get rewards. I don't like the Vanilla gearing process but I think it's better than Diablo-lite. The best middle ground was TBC where getting your welfare purps was done in a week of AV cave-guarding and then you held on to them until you got your T6 or the off-set pieces from the loot pinatas before Illidan and Archimonde.

[Dacien]

Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?

I remember spending hours reading all about combat tables and hit chance actually meaning reduced chance to miss, and the distinction that entailed, and all that stuff. It was a lot to read. I don't know that it's "too complicated" for people who never played Vanilla, but there was a lot of complexity hidden behind stats.

[Akka]

As a matter of fact I worry that this is going to be a thing in Vanilla. You can't get invited to raids or even endgame dungeons unless you have this specific collection of gear. It doesn't matter if you're the best tank or healer or DPS in the world, it doesn't matter what your iLevel is or what achievements you have, looks like you're missing these particular bracers and this particular chest, go get them and then maybe next time chump.

I don't think it'll be a problem. Because you see, there is the other aspect of Vanilla that is much less conducive to this kind of behaviour than today : the social context.

There is no automated search, there is a fixed server community, there is no teleport, dungeons are pretty long and there is very large raids to fill up. And this means that you have to make your groups with your own hands, it means that someone leaving mid-dungeon means that either you have to give up or to go get someone else, it means that your friend list becomes extremely useful and it means that you have to grab a fuckload of people to launch your raid, and have them pretty reliable.

And all this kinda change your priorities. If you wanna do fuck all, you'll have make do with people you can find. You'll rely more on people who will be reliable and easy-going than people who have all the "perfect" items but can be a liability because they antagonize the rest of the group or drop you midway. People in Vanilla didn't bother a lot with gear unless they were raiding, and it's not just because they were supposedly "retads", like the real retards on the forums would make you believe. It's because the context made other aspects more important.

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The only stats I really miss from Vanilla/Bc are spell damage/healing. Removing them was stupid in the first place.

Funny, I'd say they are the only stat (with AP) that I didn't mind see go.
Intelligence in Vanilla was pretty weird, being the supposed main stat for caster but not providing throughput, unlike strength and agility. Making intelligence give spellpower was one of the very few changes in stat over the year that was an actually good one.

[solarfallz]

Funny, I'd say they are the only stat (with AP) that I didn't mind see go.
Intelligence in Vanilla was pretty weird, being the supposed main stat for caster but not providing throughput, unlike strength and agility. Making intelligence give spellpower was one of the very few changes in stat over the year that was an actually good one.

Why does everything have to be the same? Why is spells scaling differently than melee a problem in your mind?

It goes all the way back to D&D (and many other RPGs and CRPGs... and even Warcraft 3) where spells scaled based on your level, while attacks scaled on your weapon and strength. Obviously adhering to this tradition STRICTLY would cause issues in WoW, but they kept the spirit of it by requiring a special type of "equip bonus" to scale your spells, and making them scale with ranks as you level up, with the aforementioned +spelldmg from gear being *almost* non-existent until late game.

Homogenizing the stats removed the dichotomy and thus the flavor and uniqueness. So while you say caster scaling is "pretty weird" in vanilla, for long-time RPG players it's weirder to see spells and attacks scaling the same way, and "intelligence" essentially just being a misspelled "strength".

[Zeta333]

Back in the day you had just for tanks the following stats: strength, stamina, defense, parry, dodge, weapon skill, block %, block value, resistance, etc. You had to balance the stats yourself and understand your items. You couldnt just go with the item with the highest level like in retail now.

Item and stats management is too complicated for todays retailers. Should they just simplify the stats for vanilla to be more accessible for retailers?

why would the stats for tanks and items be hard for retailers? i doubt the stores selling the games give a fuck about the stats.