ITT: People judging Antorus difficulty based on the performance of overgeared hardcore top raiding guilds.
Meanwhile, the average joe keeps dying to Kin'garoth's laser beam.
ITT: People judging Antorus difficulty based on the performance of overgeared hardcore top raiding guilds.
Meanwhile, the average joe keeps dying to Kin'garoth's laser beam.
while this is _techically_ true, today's raid structure existed almost the same way in mists already. As a reminder, in mists it was flex, normal, heroic. What you remember in SoO was that they renamed it to normal, heroic, mythic, because they wanted the 2 lower difficulties to be both flexible raid size, so the name no longer made sense. Heroic difficulty thus just got renamed, but not changed in essence.
So with all that "real" mythic existed at the very least since mists, but it even already existed in LK officially with there being a normal/heroic split in TOC, the concept of which came from ulduar hard modes.
So yeah...
People are talking about relative difficulty. Just because the majority of players in the world won't down Mythic Argus, that doesn't refute the point that Antorus could possibly end up being one of the easiest raids Blizzard has made in recent history apart from Emerald Nightmare.
Last edited by Twilight Cultist; 2017-12-07 at 03:34 PM.
You're telling me people couldn't kill nef and 4hm until they were properly equipped? People couldn't kill Princess Huhuran either until properly equipped.
It's odd you leave out Kel'thuzad, as well.
You also forget classes had way way less ways to deal with mechanics back in the day, too. No shit there were less mechanics. There were also less immunities / raid speed increases / aoe damage reductions.
But it's easy because the fights are easy (as it was the case with EN, which was cleared by a lot of guilds really fast) or because they are optimizing enough to cheese mechanics that would obliterate other groups (which would mean that the avarage Cutting Edge guild will still have problems)?
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People had no clue about what stuff did, what worked and what didn't, gear wasn't optimized and was scarcer, and despite that you could manage to clear content at least until Naxx.
Argus dies before this thread hits 100 pages
The first few bosses in ToS took a day or so to kill as well but most guilds never managed to kill them or took a long time to do it.
Now, if Antorus really is super simple then sure, thats an issue. Is it really though? Method clearing it in a few days is not a good indication of how hard the raid actually is.
ToS had design issues that made it, I guess harder (more like annoying) but the raid was not really appreciated and a lot of people simply gave up on it. I doubt thats a better way to keep players in the game.
Heck, people had no idea what to do in Ulduar, where you could actually kill Yogg+0, but so few guilds bothered to realize that you needed a FoK spamming rogue, functioning nonbraineded hunters, and a handful of warlocks to damage the boss. Was bringing 5 warlocks to 25 man considered over the top class stacking? Yeah, even though by todays standards, it's pretty laughable.
I mean, when BWL was released people were in greens and blues (not well itemized ones either). People also had zero idea how to play the game, making it "harder". Once people understood what to do, it was far easier to prepare for AQ40/Naxx.
Also, i left out KT because he died so quickly after 4hm. You, being an amazing vanilla player, must know tat you need 8 tanks with 4pc T3, so they would get taunt resisted, causing a raid wipe, on a 10+ minute fight. You are also aware, of course that each boss dropped a single tier token, with the 3 end bosses (leading up to 4hm) dropping 2. You might see where the problem is here, and why they decided to increase loot drops in TBC. If you were to take a guild like method, with literally some of the best players in the game, and put them in Naxx 40, they would probably steam roll it now with the theory crafting we have, and their ability to play. Also, if you've ever played a private server, where they even make Naxx harder to slow players down, it still gets rofl stomped in a week, because its a fucking joke.
Did I clear Naxx 40 in Vanilla? Nope, I was in a guild where we got cocked blocked by 4hm, we also had people doing under 200 dps back then, we had tanks using the shield out of ubers, we had half the raiders not even using consumables. But you know what? each horseman had 1 mechanic for dps to watch out for outside of their marks, I would hardly call that challenge by today's terms.
To expand on this post...When SoO was released it came with:
25 Player LFR mode.
10+ Player "Flexible" Mode
10 Player Normal Mode
25 Player Normal Mode
10 Player Heroic Mode
25 Player Heroic mode.
When the Pre-WoD prepatch came out (which was patch 6.0) SoO was retroactively changed to:
25 Player LFR Mode
10+ Player Normal Mode (Previously tuned as "Flexible" in 5.4
10+ Player Heroic Mode (Previously tuned as "Normal" prior to 6.0)
20 Player Mythic Mode (Previously tuned as "Heroic" prior to 6.0)
So it depends a bit what people refer to when they talk about when the current iteration of Mythic came about.
The content tuned as "Mythic" has technically existed since the invention of Heroic mode raiding in WotLK (in ToTGC I suppose). Heroic was later renamed to Mythic in the 6.0 patch (but the general tuning level is the same, it was just a rename because they didn't want to use the term "Easy mode" for the new Flex difficulty.
Though the current 20-player fixed sized difficulty setting only started in the WoD prepatch (and that was long after SoO was on heavy farm for any serious guild, meaning the first real 20-player Mythic raid was Highmaul)
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AQ40 was a joke, once Cthun had a hotfix it instantly died, and he was the only actual challenge. Naxx had 4 "difficult encounters"
Being 4hm (because of geared tanks), Loatheb (because DPS race), Gothik (wutz coordination), and KT. Everything in Naxx outside of the 4hm/Saph/Kt was dead in a week.
Also, raiding used to have a massive barrier to entry, you couldn't gear up people, you basically had to poach players from feeder guilds lmao. Maybe we should go back to this system, make loot scarce and watch people squirm and cry because now the games "too hard".