WoW players that switched to FFXIV, I need your opinions

[TheFirstOnes]

I've come up with a short conclusion for my ratings between both WoW, and FFXIV:

In terms of Power: Warcraft wins, mostly due to there being characters such as Argus, The Void Lords, and such. Hell, Argus can destroy the Entire Multiverse with his ability: http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=256544/end-of-all-things

Dungeons: FFXIV.

Raids: WoW.

PVP: Tie.

Gameplay: Near FFXIV.

Lore: WoW.

And so forth...

Just my short conclusion.

[Wrecktangle]

I've come up with a short conclusion for my ratings between both WoW, and FFXIV:

In terms of Power: Warcraft wins, mostly due to there being characters such as Argus, The Void Lords, and such. Hell, Argus can destroy the Entire Multiverse with his ability: http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=256544/end-of-all-things

Dungeons: FFXIV.

Raids: WoW.

PVP: Tie.

Gameplay: Near FFXIV.

Lore: WoW.

And so forth...

Just my short conclusion.

Instead of stating arbitrary rankings, why not detail why you believe those rankings to be relevant or well substantiated?

[TheFirstOnes]

Instead of stating arbitrary rankings, why not detail why you believe those rankings to be relevant or well substantiated?

Already gave the Power.

Dungeons: FFXIV. They're more fun, they're more rewarding, and they're less grindy.

Raids: WoW. The Music is classical, the bosses are memorable, the Raid's in general are more fleshed out, and everything just fits so well together.

PVP: Who cares? Nobody does that anymore.

Gameplay: Neigh FFXIV, mostly due to Class mechanics, fantasies, the Engine, and more.

And, alas, Lore: WoW. Why? Cause, FFXIV's Lore is confusing. It makes about as much sense as a Pizza with Pineapple on it.

[Wrecktangle]

Dungeons: FFXIV. They're more fun, they're more rewarding, and they're less grindy.

Respectfully disagree on all 3 counts. Dungeons in FF14 are some of the most boring content ever created IMO. It's just hallways with the exact same formula and mechanics over and over. Hell 99% of the mechanics don't actually matter and can be safely ignored at minimum ilvl, let alone being even moderately geared.

Guess what happens if you wear min ilvl in Kugane Castle and don't pick up any coins on the final boss?

WoW's M+ system is infinitely better, and other games have more exciting dungeons. I found Wildstar dungeons a ton of fun albeit not nearly enough of them, and B&S had really unique mechanics and fun dungeon bosses (suffered from on rails corridor design though).

PVP: Who cares? Nobody does that anymore.

I care, I like PVP. That said, I DISLIKE pvp in both games mentioned here. So some people do care , more than you're giving credit for.

Gameplay: Neigh FFXIV, mostly due to Class mechanics, fantasies, the Engine, and more.

Ironic you mention "engine" here. It's pretty universally accepted that the FF14 engine is incredibly laggy and unresponsive compared to every single competitor, ESPECIALLY WoW.

I can't argue with class mechanics/fantasies as that's pretty subjective and + I'm inclined to agree there anyway. The more bit is up for discussion though.

And, alas, Lore: WoW. Why? Cause, FFXIV's Lore is confusing. It makes about as much sense as a Pizza with Pineapple on it.

Lore? Or story? FF14's Lore IMO probably isn't as interesting as WoWs, but it's story presentation is better again IMO. WoW's come a long way though and did a pretty solid job with the story this go around.

[Zafire]

I'm having much more fun with raiding savage content in FFXIV than I ever did raiding in WoW. I'm not even sure if it's harder than Mythic raiding because I was never even able to find a group to mythic raid with in WoW. In FFXIV, it took my static 25 days of raiding to down Deltascape Savage 4.0. It's so mechanic-intensive that one person making a simple mistake wipes the whole group. You really have to depend on each other and be patient with each other. I've made some great friends due to FFXIV, and that in itself makes the best experience IMO. I have an extremely hard time making friends in WoW. Everyone seems so much more serious.

The main storyline is amazing in FFXIV and barely exists in WoW anymore. You can't progress in the FFXIV without doing it, you HAVE to do it. You can't access dungeons without doing it. Everything is content blocked by the main storyline. It FEELS like a single player main storyline, it's extremely well done. My only gripe with it is, as others have said, it contains far too many filler-errand-boy quests before it goes back to being exciting again. If you can look past that, it's a great experience. This recent expansion blew my expectations out of the water. The main storyline was extremely well done, I no-lifed it in less than a week and enjoyed it. I can't do that with very many games anymore. I was gaining levels without even looking at my experience bar because I wanted to know what happened next in the main storyline.

There is more to do endgame than in WoW, IMO. Some people literally dedicate their souls to the housing system. I hear it called "The real endgame" quite a bit because of how horrendous of a gil sink it is. The economy is extremely active, it's easy to craft/gather all day in this game and make so many different things that will all sell. It takes quite a bit of dedication to max level all crafters/gatherers as well, and a lot of doors open up to you if you can do that. Gearing a max level crafter is also fairly intimidating if you don't have nice friends. You can be all classes on one character, so that's a type of "endgame" a lot of people pursue. Comes with its own title, too! In WoW I feel like all there is to do is spam heroics or mythics all day, or do BGs/Arena. PvP is also getting a lot of attention in FFXIV right now.

The battle system does start out insanely slow, but near endgame it's pretty fast paced. In WoW you wait for your resources (Energy, Rage, Runes, long cast times, etc), in FFXIV you wait for your GCD and try to time oGCD's in between them. A few classes get a 2sec GCD. You still have to keep track of cooldowns, DoT's, when everyone gets their burst windows up so you can benefit from their buffs/enemy debuffs, etc. Still a lot of coordination, maybe even more if you want to parse the highest on fflogs. The Ninja opener is 28 buttons in 32 seconds, I don't really feel WoW is any faster than that. Maybe Unholy DK or Combat Rogue.

I truly feel like FFXIV is the better game. I'm not going to argue if people prefer WoW, they're definitely different games. The simple fact I never experienced a part of WoW that I experience in FFXIV may make me a little biased and I understand that.

[Wrecktangle]

There is more to do endgame than in WoW, IMO. Some people literally dedicate their souls to the housing system.

There's definitely more end game side content in FF14 for sure. WoW has a lot more battle content though. In my ideal world, they'd both improve on areas they lack since I actively play both . It depends on what types of content you prefer as to which game succeeds better here. As I'm a huge battle content fan WoW wins here for me personally.

If FF14 could:

• Clean up its sloppy netcode
• Implement actual raids and not boss rooms
• Give us some repeatable end game battle content that is engaging

I'd probably quit WoW full time.

The Ninja opener is 28 buttons in 32 seconds, I don't really feel WoW is any faster than that. Maybe Unholy DK or Combat Rogue.

NIN, is one of the highest CPM in FF14 and is still slower than some of the slowest in WoW (comparing melee to melee). You can see this in FFlogs/Warcrafts respectively.

I truly feel like FFXIV is the better game. I'm not going to argue if people prefer WoW, they're definitely different games. The simple fact I never experienced a part of WoW that I experience in FFXIV may make me a little biased and I understand that.

For sure. I just posted above to clarify some pieces that I think are important to discern while also giving a little anecdotal insight into how I feel and why I f

[Kelimbror]

Maaan, I hate raid trash. Hate, hate, hate. I was one of the few people that actually really appreciated Trial of the Crusader for just cutting to the goddamned chase.

So yeah, I actually kinda really like "boss rooms" believe it or not.

I don't like trash, but admit removing it takes away most of the fantasy of the place you are supposed to be raiding. They've balanced it better since the days of hours of trash between each boss to where it's a couple of pulls and there you are. I still wish it was like 3-5 pulls and never more, but having a giant empty structure would break immersion and so does having all big bads sequester themselves in a smallish circular platform/room/dimension.

I prefer the grand architecture with minimal trash for the whole package.

On the topic of aesthetic and architecture and immersion...FFXIV has the most beautiful worlds, that lock you in the weirdest places. If you are a fan of the world being open and there not being invisible walls everywhere, WoW is a better design. True FFXIV has opened up more since adding flying and all the swimming, but the early areas are still 'broken' in that sense.

I still stand by my initial feedback that you should just play both games. They aren't even worth comparing. Almost like asking should you play Skyrim or Zelda. Two different games in the same genre, different aesthetic, different goals, different mechanics. A lot of people play both and enjoy them separately. That's what you should do here if you can afford it.

[Sorrior]

There's definitely more end game side content in FF14 for sure. WoW has a lot more battle content though. In my ideal world, they'd both improve on areas they lack since I actively play both . It depends on what types of content you prefer as to which game succeeds better here. As I'm a huge battle content fan WoW wins here for me personally.

If FF14 could:

• Clean up its sloppy netcode
• Implement actual raids and not boss rooms
• Give us some repeatable end game battle content that is engaging

I'd probably quit WoW full time.



NIN, is one of the highest CPM in FF14 and is still slower than some of the slowest in WoW (comparing melee to melee). You can see this in FFlogs/Warcrafts respectively.



For sure. I just posted above to clarify some pieces that I think are important to discern while also giving a little anecdotal insight into how I feel and why I f

I feel like comparong rotations is like comparing types of diffuculty you have darksouls/cuphead style based on repetotion and rdplayiing then you have pure reflex based.

Both are valid forms of game design with their own pros and cons but not the same so hard to truly compare. I think the rotations may be like that honestly

[Kazgrel]

Maaan, I hate raid trash. Hate, hate, hate. I was one of the few people that actually really appreciated Trial of the Crusader for just cutting to the goddamned chase.

So yeah, I actually kinda really like "boss rooms" believe it or not.

Initially I thought I would like that, but then ToC also turned out to be one of my least favorite raid tiers ever; being saddled with GM responsiblities for my guild was a sizeable factor in that, though.

Something akin to the wee bit of trash in the 24 mans, if only to give the places a little atmosphere, isn't the end of the world. Those raids tend to be my favorites thus far in my years playing this game.

Sure as hell don't want gauntlets like the vanilla era WoW raids, though...

[Katchii]

Maaan, I hate raid trash. Hate, hate, hate. I was one of the few people that actually really appreciated Trial of the Crusader for just cutting to the goddamned chase.

So yeah, I actually kinda really like "boss rooms" believe it or not.

I find boss rooms to be very boring lore wise and not make any sense either given you're usually sitting inside the enemy stronghold. Deltascape makes sense here though because it's really a testing ground pitting you against powerful enemies, so having trash mobs here wouldn't make sense. Trial of the Crusader was the same thing, just a bunch of powerful enemies, not an enemy stronghold.

I just want the setting to feel believable.

[Wrecktangle]

Maaan, I hate raid trash. Hate, hate, hate. I was one of the few people that actually really appreciated Trial of the Crusader for just cutting to the goddamned chase.

So yeah, I actually kinda really like "boss rooms" believe it or not.

I hate trash too. I really do. I even LIKED TotC, and it had some really neat RP in between bosses that was a decent substitute instead of trash. I agree that pointless trash is the worst, but I loved first coil because you had an actual environment. Even Alex had a decent environment, and sensible trash. The reason I like the raids though is because not only is it great for the atmosphere, but it also allows some freedom in the order you tackle bosses which is great.

I feel like comparong rotations is like comparing types of diffuculty you have darksouls/cuphead style based on repetotion and rdplayiing then you have pure reflex based.

Both are valid forms of game design with their own pros and cons but not the same so hard to truly compare. I think the rotations may be like that honestly

Don't misunderstand. We were not measuring the depth or complexity of rotations, merely the frequency of presses inside said rotation which is easily provable with hard data (the other stuff is much harder to discuss and is subjective, whereas speed is not). The fastest CPM job in FF14 is still a hair behind the slowest CPM job in WoW (comparing strictly melee to melee to ensure integrity).

Initially I thought I would like that, but then ToC also turned out to be one of my least favorite raid tiers ever; being saddled with GM responsiblities for my guild was a sizeable factor in that, though.

Something akin to the wee bit of trash in the 24 mans, if only to give the places a little atmosphere, isn't the end of the world. Those raids tend to be my favorites thus far in my years playing this game.

Sure as hell don't want gauntlets like the vanilla era WoW raids, though...

1) Definitely do not want vanilla raids. Agreed there.

2) Using Rabanastre as an example I feel almost no attachment to the raid despite being the biggest FFT fanboi in the world. Like cool, red chocobo and meteor, neat, but why are they there and why are they attacking us. Why are chocobos running around inside a city anyway? Why do a bunch of random mimics pop out for no reason?

Same thing with the bosses, why is Mateus, an ice/water lucavi/esper, etc. just chilling in a desert city on a flat platform? Hashmal is barely better.

When I step foot in Antorus, (which I don't care for much), like it makes sense why the worldbreaker is at the front to try and stop us from seigeing them. It fits. For the same reason that the hounds are patrolling the outer walkways of the planet and not inside a spaceship or in a castle room. Just like the High Command are chilling in their observatory with their pods and protection.

3) Deltascape gets a pass, begrudgingly, because the lore behind the raid is cyberspace + created test encounters so it fits. I don't like it, but it fits.

I find boss rooms to be very boring lore wise and not make any sense either given you're usually sitting inside the enemy stronghold. Deltascape makes sense here though because it's really a testing ground pitting you against powerful enemies, so having trash mobs here wouldn't make sense. Trial of the Crusader was the same thing, just a bunch of powerful enemies, not an enemy stronghold.

I just want the setting to feel believable.

lol didn't see this, I agree wholeheartedly. You around tomorrow? We're raiding normal at 9PM EST, I'm sure no one will mind the carry. Easy full clear.

[Katchii]

lol didn't see this, I agree wholeheartedly. You around tomorrow? We're raiding normal at 9PM EST, I'm sure no one will mind the carry. Easy full clear.

I should be around, though it won't be until closer to 10PM EST. Can't get on any earlier without severe aggro from the wife and kids.

[Wrecktangle]

I should be around, though it won't be until closer to 10PM EST. Can't get on any earlier without severe aggro from the wife and kids.

ah ok, all good anyway I was wrong, apparently we're doing heroic tomorrow anyway Ill let u know as they'll prob try and do normal later this week.

[Katchii]

ah ok, all good anyway I was wrong, apparently we're doing heroic tomorrow anyway Ill let u know as they'll prob try and do normal later this week.

All good. I won't be available Thursday (STAR WARS!) though, and likely won't be able to get online on Friday until around the same time (10 EST). I'll keep an eye out though.

[Kazgrel]

1) Definitely do not want vanilla raids. Agreed there.

2) Using Rabanastre as an example I feel almost no attachment to the raid despite being the biggest FFT fanboi in the world. Like cool, red chocobo and meteor, neat, but why are they there and why are they attacking us. Why are chocobos running around inside a city anyway? Why do a bunch of random mimics pop out for no reason?

Same thing with the bosses, why is Mateus, an ice/water lucavi/esper, etc. just chilling in a desert city on a flat platform? Hashmal is barely better.

When I step foot in Antorus, (which I don't care for much), like it makes sense why the worldbreaker is at the front to try and stop us from seigeing them. It fits. For the same reason that the hounds are patrolling the outer walkways of the planet and not inside a spaceship or in a castle room. Just like the High Command are chilling in their observatory with their pods and protection.

3) Deltascape gets a pass, begrudgingly, because the lore behind the raid is cyberspace + created test encounters so it fits. I don't like it, but it fits.

I had Weeping City and (to a lesser extent) Dun Scaith in mind when making that statement. Rabanastre whiffed on it a bit for the reasons you indicated. "Those are no ordinary chocobos!"...ok, aside from being red, what makes them different? Then you have the single measly red chocobo that casts a meteor during the second set of trash. The aqueduct area could've had some stuff in it, too, but they seem to be hesitant to have areas where the raid splits up and fights trash, likely thanks to Atomos in LotA (there's the one part of Midas normal...A7, I think, where group is split up to deal with trash).

Literally throwing in random mobs just to have trash is dumb. Needs to have some sort of underlying logic to them. Blizzard has a good handle on this at this point, or they did last time I played WoW, at least; the piles of trash from the vanilla and even TBC days seem to be behind us, and for the people who pine for such things, classic servers are on the way, lul. On that note...having trash that requires more than "spam aoe" could be fun (Tempest Keep entrance trash...CC some or get rekt), but since it's trash mobs and, in FF14, wouldn't be dropping any loot, it would likely only serve as an annoyance.

[Katchii]

I had Weeping City and (to a lesser extent) Dun Scaith in mind when making that statement. Rabanastre whiffed on it a bit for the reasons you indicated. "Those are no ordinary chocobos!"...ok, aside from being red, what makes them different? Then you have the single measly red chocobo that casts a meteor during the second set of trash. The aqueduct area could've had some stuff in it, too, but they seem to be hesitant to have areas where the raid splits up and fights trash, likely thanks to Atomos in LotA (there's the one part of Midas normal...A7, I think, where group is split up to deal with trash).

Literally throwing in random mobs just to have trash is dumb. Needs to have some sort of underlying logic to them. Blizzard has a good handle on this at this point, or they did last time I played WoW, at least; the piles of trash from the vanilla and even TBC days seem to be behind us, and for the people who pine for such things, classic servers are on the way, lul. On that note...having trash that requires more than "spam aoe" could be fun (Tempest Keep entrance trash...CC some or get rekt), but since it's trash mobs and, in FF14, wouldn't be dropping any loot, it would likely only serve as an annoyance.

The thing I hate about trash in FFXIV, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but many enemies already have the telegraphed attacks so it turns trash pulls into Dance Dance Revolution for everyone in melee range and because of the positionals for all melee DPS it makes killing them take longer than it should unless you just seriously outgear the content. Admittedly outgearing doesn't take long, but it's still an annoyance. You can definitely feel the difference in trash pull kill time in an all melee group versus a group with caster DPS, especially BLM and SMN, but RDM is respectable too as are BRD and MCH.

Trash in general is just that, trash, but in many cases having it there makes sense given the setting. Your comment regarding Tempest Keep trash is on point, trash there was a mini boss fight, which CAN be cool and help with that sense of accomplishment in simply getting to the boss but can also be overly frustrating when you're kept from progressing because that one Hunter's Ice Trap keeps breaking or your Mage DC's at just the wrong time or that AoE ability gets a little too close and hits that caster mob that then decimates your healer resulting in a complete wipe.

I wish they could find a happy medium between today's level of meaningless AoE burnfest trash and the meaningful, challenging, tactical trash of yesteryear.

[Kazgrel]

The thing I hate about trash in FFXIV, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but many enemies already have the telegraphed attacks so it turns trash pulls into Dance Dance Revolution for everyone in melee range and because of the positionals for all melee DPS it makes killing them take longer than it should unless you just seriously outgear the content. Admittedly outgearing doesn't take long, but it's still an annoyance. You can definitely feel the difference in trash pull kill time in an all melee group versus a group with caster DPS, especially BLM and SMN, but RDM is respectable too as are BRD and MCH.

Trash in general is just that, trash, but in many cases having it there makes sense given the setting. Your comment regarding Tempest Keep trash is on point, trash there was a mini boss fight, which CAN be cool and help with that sense of accomplishment in simply getting to the boss but can also be overly frustrating when you're kept from progressing because that one Hunter's Ice Trap keeps breaking or your Mage DC's at just the wrong time or that AoE ability gets a little too close and hits that caster mob that then decimates your healer resulting in a complete wipe.

I wish they could find a happy medium between today's level of meaningless AoE burnfest trash and the meaningful, challenging, tactical trash of yesteryear.

I can't recall which specific fights, but I recall that Blizzard would introduce mechanics used by bosses via trash at times. Now I'm annoyed I can't remember which ones specifically.

Point being, having the trash as a way to learn some of the mechanics is a good use of said trash.

[Katchii]

I can't recall which specific fights, but I recall that Blizzard would introduce mechanics used by bosses via trash at times. Now I'm annoyed I can't remember which ones specifically.

Point being, having the trash as a way to learn some of the mechanics is a good use of said trash.

Yeah I was going to put a "I wish they would do this...." point about learning mechanics from trash but then realized they've already done that, but like you I can't remember specifically which ones.

Both games do this though.

[Wrecktangle]

I can't recall which specific fights, but I recall that Blizzard would introduce mechanics used by bosses via trash at times. Now I'm annoyed I can't remember which ones specifically.

Point being, having the trash as a way to learn some of the mechanics is a good use of said trash.

The current raid, Antorus does this.

The dog before the hounds, the golems before Kingoroth, the guy before Aggramar, etc.

Yeah I was going to put a "I wish they would do this...." point about learning mechanics from trash but then realized they've already done that, but like you I can't remember specifically which ones.

Both games do this though.

I vaguely recall SCoB maybe using this (which was a great raid btw). Not sure I can recount any other instances.

[Katchii]

The current raid, Antorus does this.

The dog before the hounds, the golems before Kingoroth, the guy before Aggramar, etc.



I vaguely recall SCoB maybe using this (which was a great raid btw). Not sure I can recount any other instances.

FFXIV in general just has telegraphed attacks and mechanics throughout the whole game that are mirrored in bosses. Not sure there's many instances where trash in a specific dungeon also shows mechanics that specific dungeon boss has.